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'56 willys truck

I tore into the NWF Blackbox eco-box and there were no issues, so my belief that the popping out of gear due to overheating seems to be the issue. I only changed out the steel thrust washer, as the plastic thrust washers in the small parts kit were a bit thinner than the originals and really I didn't need to change it out, but I did. I then put it back together. I need to buy some fittings for the Tilton pump, cooler and the NWF Blackbox eco-box and hose for the new system and start to figure out where to mount all that. Then it will be time to attack the NP205 to see what's going on with that.
 
I've heard a few stories now of the eco box locking up, popping out of gear and burning up internals etc. The ORD magnum box is basically the same thing but doesn't have the same issues. Would be interesting to compare the 2 units and see where the design failure is in the eco box.
 
Mattygwheeler--yes it would be nice to see what's inside the ORD box and I'm curious to see the amount of fluid they use . In 2019 NWF increased the fluid capacity in their directions from 1/2qt to 1qt and I'm thinking that had to do with heat issues. Since they told me to add the pump and a cooler for more capacity to be able to drive it on the street the fluid capacity is critical. Briefly looking at the ORD instructions it is different but I need to read them with more time on my hands to figure out all the differences and they say to use 3/4 of qt of fluid. Note NWF uses Redline MT90 full synthetic and ORD uses gear oil or tranny fluid.
 
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csutton7 said:
Mattygwheeler--yes it would be nice to see what's inside the ORD box and I'm curious to see the amount of fluid they us . In 2019 NWF increased the fluid capacity in their directions from 1/2qt to 1qt and I'm thinking that had to do with heat issues. Since they told me to add the pump and a cooler for more capacity to be able to drive it on the street the fluid capacity is critical. Briefly looking at the ORD instructions it is different but I need to read them with more time on my hands to figure out all the differences and they say to use 3/4 of qt of fluid. Note NWF uses Redling MT90 full synthetic and ORD uses gear oil or tranny fluid.
Click to expand...
I have been running the ORD magnum and ORD np203 rangebox kits for a few years now without any issues. I dont run down the highways for hours on end but my rigs do see some highway miles. I just change the oil every 3k miles in the magnum. I put the the 203 doubler on my "work" truck, it is proven and holds almost a gallon of oil. Many in ultimate adventure crowd run the magnum box down the highway all day long and they dont seem to have any problems. That is what sold me on the ORD stuff. Good luck, cheers
 
I'll be finding out if this increased fluid capacity cures the issue or not. Fingers crossed and thanks for chiming in on this. Good to know ORD has a solution if I need to go a different route.
 
Re-assembly of the NP205 has commenced. Updated output shaft and the VSS tone ring are installed into the rear output housing and tomorrow I shall commence to installing the innards.

There's a thread about the NWF box and it was redesigned to hold more fluid and I find out that NWF sells bronze thrust washers!! Now why Kris from NWF didn't mention this I have no idea, but that sucks to know I could've ditched the plastic ones had he said something, but those bastards are $200, so I would have had to think about that long and hard, although I probably would've bought them cuz the fuckers aint't gonna melt!!!!!
 
Ya, plastic with anything to do with moving metal parts just never gives you the warm fuzzy feelings.
 
So Friday after work I decided to jump on getting this thing back together. Finished up the NP205 bearing seals and bolted the NWF blackbox eco box to it and then commenced to battling thet two ton betty into place. Damn what a battle it was using two straps, 12 billion blocks and two jacks and a bit of swearing, pushing with the arms and legs. It took me 7 hrs to get the above done and finally bolted up. I'm still sore. It's just not an easy chore in the driveway by yourself and then in the dark. Saturday, Sunday and today I worked on the plumbing for the eco box and it's 99% done. I decided I needed to move the pump so that it was below the eco box thus insuring it always had fluid to pump. I added back in the tranny fluid that drained out of the tranny and started adding fluid to the eco box. If all goes good tomorrow I'll get it filled and wired and maybe start on adding the catch can to the NP205 and wiring up the VSS speed sensor that's now in the NP205 rear tail housing. I hope that fixes my shifting issues from 1st to 2nd. Then fill the NP205, install the driveshafts and rear lower links, start it and let it run on the jack stands for a bit before it hits the road. Probably be the weekend to get to driving it as it's gonna be in the high 90's starting Wednesday for the rest of the week, so I'm not sure how much I'll get done in that heat. After driving it then I can put the skid plated back on it and drive it more.
 
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That does not sound like fun. Doing anything when it's hot as hell just sucks out your will to live.

I probably spend more time pointing the fan at where I'm working than I do working.
 
10-4 on the fan, that thing is an assistant I can't do without!!

Yea it better fix it otherwise I may burn the thing to the ground.

I was able to get some more time on it tonight. I got enough of the t-case plumbing done and got some gear oil in the t-case, so we shall if I can stand the heat tomorrow to see if I can get more t-case plumbing, vent lines and wiring attacked.
 
Rear lower links in and rear driveshaft in. So far no leaks. Front driveshaft and belly pans remaining. Maybe tomorrow for the front driveshaft cuz the belly pans are staying off until I feel good about everything or at least a week.

So one thing I'm doing is to remove all the vent-bellows, except for maybe the front diff. I'm not sure if I need to or not since it's only basically going to see low speed, but first off the 14 bolt rear has puked gear oil out 2 new pinion seals, so I'm not sure it's just been bad seals, install or what, but I decided to see if it continues leaking without the vent-bellow. I had them on the tranny, t-case and doubler also, but they were mounted up in the bed, so lots of vent hose, but again was it part of the problem wtih the NP205 pumping out gear oil or was it due to it being clocked flat and was it a problem for the NWF box? I don't know, but I've eliminated the one for the t-case and 14 bolt so far. I need to buy two more for the transmission and NWF box.

So the level of the gear oil in the NP205 doesn't move with the rig running and t-case spinning, so I may add a little more. It's real close to being about level with the main shaft. The Tilton pump for the NWF box pumps good and I'm trying to figure out how much I should put in it so that it doesn't cavitate, but it sucks the fill line pretty much dry and then it fills up partially and back to sucking it dry and it keeps repeating this so I want to get it to a point where I see fluid all the time there and it not fluctuating so much.

I extended the wire for the VSS to the new rear seal cover of the NP205 where the new VSS is located, but my first test resulted in no shifting at all so I have to do some more testing or maybe I need to flip the plug around if it will do it or change the wires around to see if that's the issue.

I've got it sitting pretty level at the moment, but I need to recheck all fluid levels to make sure everything looks good or if I need to add to everything and then run it on the jacks stands awhile and then let it rest and check all levels again, before I go out and test drive it.
 
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Never been a fan of those bellows vents. It really isn't a vent at all. It just lowers the amount of pressure that builds up, compared to plugging the vent hole. But there is some pressure build up with those things.
 
I'm slightly baffled by them because my '48 I built in Cali never had an issue but now for some reason I'm having doubts about them, so doubt ='s take them out of the equation in this case. For ease of install they are great, but you are correct some pressure is always present with them and some guys have had issues with them and other's not.
 
gt1guy said:
Never been a fan of those bellows vents. It really isn't a vent at all. It just lowers the amount of pressure that builds up, compared to plugging the vent hole. But there is some pressure build up with those things.
Click to expand...
Perhaps switch to a catch can (even if it's just a Gatorade bottle zip tied to the frame with holes drilled into it) to see if you are losing fluid, or if it's just the air inside heating and expanding more than the bellows can handle?

Aaron Z
 
I'm hoping I don't have to add catch cans to all them, can't imagine I need too, but my luck runneth in a bad circle, so this way I will know if I have too and will do so if needed.
 
Only thing left is belly pans to install from the NWF blackbox eco box tear down inspection, pump & cooler add, NP205 rebuild saga. Started it and added some more eco box fluid, checked tranny fluid and NP205 fluid is good, so now we shall see what the levels look like tomorrow.

So I dropped the tranny into drive to see if it would shift and by god it shifted at like 1600 rpm!! Tested it few times and rinse and repeat, so having the NP205 tail piece machined and adding the VSS to it looks to be a major success. Of course it’s was on jack stands, so I need to drive it to verify, but right now I’m extremely pleased. Offroad Design gets 4 thumbs up.
 

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Drove it around the neighborhood, let's say it's a bit butt-puckering knowing the thing locked up and wonderin' if it will do it again, but no issues and no leaks and it shifted where it should, so I am pretty pleased after 45 minutes. Park it as we are going to a family BBQ. I still need to drive it more and for longer and get it on the HWY where the butt-puckering will take on a whole new meaning and it's going to be a while before that subsides and it may get to the point that I shelve the ECO box/NP205 set up, but we shall see.

So, all in all I'm feeling fairly good about everything and we come home at about 7:30pm and I had seen there was a jeep meeting about 2 miles from the house at 6:30pm on Facebook earlier in the week and figured hey let's go for another test drive and check out the JK palooza, as that's what most people have around here. Wife and I jump in and we head out and lo and behold the fucking ECO-box jumps out of gear!!! So now I'm in not such a fuzzy, fuzzy mood. I pull over and shift into gear, no problem there, and off we go to see what's at the meeting. Turns out since we were 1.5 hours late, there had been around 20-24 rigs there, but there were only 4 there now and no one was around, so we drove home. I held the lever to see if it wanted to pop out and it didn't, but I did feel it shift deeper into gear, so next up is to do some more linkage adjustment to see if that's the issue. If it turns out it's not going to stay in gear then I'll be swapping out the whole setup or just ditch the NWF Black-Box for the ORD Magnum underdrive box., but when that will happen is another story. I need to start selling stuff to get some $$$ for whatever I decide to do.

I'll report back after the next test drive.
 
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Well that kind of sucks, but I guess there was some good in there too.

You'll get it figured out.
 
Out I went for another test drive and NWF BLACKBOX EXO BOX popped out of gear, so the rig is delegated to trails only and even then I’m not sure it won’t pop out of gear, but probably not. So I’m not happy at all, but again live and learn and move forward cuz crying about it won’t fix it. So now it’s time to figure my next move, cuz I want to drive it on the streets and have a good rock crawler all in one.

So I can get a different t-case like a 4 spd Atlas or one of the other t-cases and add the ORD Magnum box to it( since it’s proven to handle street and rocks) or just get a ORD Magnum box and add it to my NP205. More decisions when I thought I had made a good decision by getting the NWF box and then adding the Tilton pump and adding a log style cooler to the system.
 
How long did it take to pop out of gear? How was the temp on it?

That does suck. Spending good money one parts, expecting them to work as they should shouldn't be rolling dice.
 
About 20 minutes of driving— top speed of 45 and it couldn’t have been too hot , cuz I drove 10 minutes to the gas station and fueled up and then drove another 10 minutes after fueling up for about 5-7 minutes and it popped out driving up a slight grade and I didn’t let off the gas pedal abruptly was just slowing down for traffic.
 
NWF states it’s “for off-road use only”, but I didn’t take heed to it cuz you see that disclaimer so often on tons of manufacturers and their products do work for on the road, so I can’t put a lot blame on them. I should’ve just ditched it the first go around but instead figured I’d give it another chance with NWF’s recommendation. Really though if the pump fails and I’m on the road and the plastic thrust washers melt then I’ll be dead so I feel it’s best to not tempt fate anymore.
 
I do have a np203 that I bought back in 2017 also because I was originally going to do the 203/205 doubler, but then opted out for the NWF box so that I could get the 2.72 reduction vs the 1.96 reduction. I had forgotten about it, but I do have it, so I could still go that route, but the weight of that thing has got the ol' gonads saying "don't do it"!!!
 
I'm down to the ORD magnum or NP203/205, but leaning toward the magnum because it's 2.72 gear reduction and it's lighter and will package better. I'm going to wait and see if ORD is having a Labor Day sale before I pull the trigger. Of course, I'll still be perusing to see if an Atlas or something pops up, but it would have to be a hell of a deal for me to pull the trigger on such. Unfortunately, the magnum box is a 3-month wait and the 203/205 doubler is 4-6 week wait.
 
With sales for Christmas not long off, if you don't find something for Labor Day you should consider waiting until them. Patience at this point will reward you.
 
Will Scarlet--true indeed if I can put the patience lever in gear. I'm pretty much out of patience!! I'm half tempted to bungee cord the shifter when it's in high to see what will happen, but the last time I did such I ended up skidding, bouncing and finally flipping over on my side on the shoulder of the Freeway when the ATLAS decided to implode on itself, which in turn sheared all but one or two pinion teeth and all but two teeth of the ring gear and locked up the ATLAS and rear end. Those types of things leave a lingering memory in the brain cell so I'm a bit leary of doing it again.
 
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