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2022 Ram 3500 drw, HO Diesel....What to expect?

YotaAtieToo said:
Why do the rams use more def when towing? I saw a half ass YouTube review on a 2020 Ford vs 2021 ram towing a 53' wedge and they said the ram used like 4x's as much def as the Ford.

I've put almost 3k miles on my work truck grossing 38k lbs and hitting 6% grades every day. I have not put def in it. Last I looked it was over half full. I'm thinking it may go 5k miles before I refill.

I thought that towing heavy put more heat in the DPF and kept it cleaner, vs putting around empty. But I could be wrong. I've only seen it say it's cleaning exhaust twice.
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Two different things. The DPF which cuts down on soot likes heat. Lower combustion temps typically result in lower NOx emissions so you use less DEF when your EGTs are lower.

Before you had a DEF addition after the DPF had a lot of issues because you had to balance not being to hot so your NOx emissions were within spec with being hot enough for effective DPF operation. Now you just make it hot and spray enough def to hit your NOx target.
 
speed bump said:
Two different things. The DPF which cuts down on soot likes heat. Lower combustion temps typically result in lower NOx emissions so you use less DEF when your EGTs are lower.

Before you had a DEF addition after the DPF had a lot of issues because you had to balance not being to hot so your NOx emissions were within spec with being hot enough for effective DPF operation. Now you just make it hot and spray enough def to hit your NOx target.
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Gotcha, I did not realize the Def wasn't for the dpf :homer:

So why does my work truck seem to go forever on Def then? It's working hard everyday, 6% grades a 45 mph to the floor. 38k lbs and a lot of wind drag.

In contrast, I don't think our company Porta potty trucks go as long on Def at ~18k lbs gross. Although I don't mess with them, so the guys I talk to could be wrong :laughing:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Gotcha, I did not realize the Def wasn't for the dpf :homer:

So why does my work truck seem to go forever on Def then? It's working hard everyday, 6% grades a 45 mph to the floor. 38k lbs and a lot of wind drag.

In contrast, I don't think our company Porta potty trucks go as long on Def at ~18k lbs gross. Although I don't mess with them, so the guys I talk to could be wrong :laughing:
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There are a lot of factors to this.
Axle gearing (load) wind drag, engine condition and power rating are just a few variables. The DEF quality can effect DEF usage but now that DEF quality sensors have been implemented that's not much of a issue anymore you will just get low DEF quality codes.

Some engine manufacturer strategies actually use a lot of DEF by design favoring that over other methods.

Long story longer, I don't know why usage is different. :laughing:
 
Well, bumping this semi old thread because I figure a number of both Ram folks have commented in here by now; sorry for any hijack OP, but I hope your truck is doing well.

I've got a '20 3500 SRW Mega Cab that just hit 65k miles. Right at 65,003 the CEL clicked on and it did it when the truck went into Regen. I had noticed that the Regen duration had started to feel shorter and shorter. Well, that was what the light checks out to be. P2459 - Regen too Frequent.

On top of that, this truck is one with the CP4s on recall. I've been on a waiting list at two different dealerships in the area. Yesterday I called the smaller of the two and asked where I was in line. Still not close. I then said, well the thing has been acting like its always jumping into regen even though I haven't changed my driving style and do very little to no city driving (though somehow I do have 245 hrs of idle time which works out to like 16% of my engine time). I mentioned it tripped the CEL while towing but not that I already knew what it was for. They then tell me, ohh, on the list for a pump and have a CEL, over 60k miles puts the pump at higher risk, and you've noticed emissions issues bring it in. We'll knock the pump out and look into the Regen issues. He said that they've noticed that the crank case vent needs to be changed regularly or it causes the EGR to do weird stuff and that that seems to be causing issues with Regen frequency. The other thing he said was being over-filled on oil and having a dirty intake air filter can cause the computer to decide to Regen early... any basis here?

Theres just the slightest faint of soot on the tailpipe tip, have to really rub the inside of the pipe to get it transfer to my fingers. The engine is admitadly on the more full size with engine oil, like is barely above the full mark, but doesn't smell like diesel and even with like 10k miles on it, still isn't all that thin.

So the truck goes into the dealership as soon as they could get me in and thats end of next week. I've not had any other issues with this truck except one time, getting onto the interstate, after just topping off the DEF tank, it threw a "Service DEF System" light but it went out on its own by the time I could pull one small mountain pass on 64 in Va.

Any experience, knowledge, or thoughts?
 
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I’ve also been on a waiting list for about a year for my cp4. Had something similar happen to my def when it hit 1/4 tank and the dealer said to keep it above 1/2 tank if I could, hasn’t happened since. I have a ‘19 and I don’t think it’s ever done a regen.:confused:
 
AlxJ64 said:
Well, bumping this semi old thread because I figure a number of both Ram folks have commented in here by now; sorry for any hijack OP, but I hope your truck is doing well.

I've got a '20 3500 SRW Mega Cab that just hit 65k miles. Right at 65,003 the CEL clicked on and it did it when the truck went into Regen. I had noticed that the Regen duration had started to feel shorter and shorter. Well, that was what the light checks out to be. P2459 - Regen too Frequent.

On top of that, this truck is one with the CP4s on recall. I've been on a waiting list at two different dealerships in the area. Yesterday I called the smaller of the two and asked where I was in line. Still not close. I then said, well the thing has been acting like its always jumping into regen even though I haven't changed my driving style and do very little to no city driving (though somehow I do have 245 hrs of idle time which works out to like 16% of my engine time). I mentioned it tripped the CEL while towing but not that I already knew what it was for. They then tell me, ohh, on the list for a pump and have a CEL, over 60k miles puts the pump at higher risk, and you've noticed emissions issues bring it in. We'll knock the pump out and look into the Regen issues. He said that they've noticed that the crank case vent needs to be changed regularly or it causes the EGR to do weird stuff and that that seems to be causing issues with Regen frequency. The other thing he said was being over-filled on oil and having a dirty intake air filter can cause the computer to decide to Regen early... any basis here?

Theres just the slightest faint of soot on the tailpipe tip, have to really rub the inside of the pipe to get it transfer to my fingers. The engine is admitadly on the more full size with engine oil, like is barely above the full mark, but doesn't smell like diesel and even with like 10k miles on it, still isn't all that thin.

So the truck goes into the dealership as soon as they could get me in and thats end of next week. I've not had any other issues with this truck except one time, getting onto the interstate, after just topping off the DEF tank, it threw a "Service DEF System" light but it went out on its own by the time I could pull one small mountain pass on 64 in Va.

Any experience, knowledge, or thoughts?
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The crank case vent causes the exact scenario on the Ford when it's over due, interwebs is saying 1/4 the factory interval of 100k I think.

The frequent regens will cause oil dillution which compounds the crankcase vent problem.
The extra oil in the exhaust will plug the dpf (Ash is not removable via regen process).

Something to consider no idea if the Cummins is subject to the same issues.
 
TRINDU said:
Yeah, new(er) diesel bullshit problems.

Have the dealership replace the cp4 then delete it.
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Yea, trust me... its on the wish list but currently VA still has state vehicle inspections and a lot of local shops are checking. If they pass the proposed legislation ending annual inspections and requiring time of sale / registration transfer inspections only then maybe it'll get done.
 
CarterKraft said:
The crank case vent causes the exact scenario on the Ford when it's over due, interwebs is saying 1/4 the factory interval of 100k I think.

The frequent regens will cause oil dillution which compounds the crankcase vent problem.
The extra oil in the exhaust will plug the dpf (Ash is not removable via regen process).

Something to consider no idea if the Cummins is subject to the same issues.
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This is what the dealership was saying on the phone when I scheduled the CP4 swap. Additionally, a friend who works for a large utility company got me in contact with a few of their fleet guys just to chat about it as they have a bunch of '20+ 5500 Bucket Trucks. The regional fleet manager told us that they keep the oil level mid or below the half line on the dipsticks as the trucks that are full or over full tend to have dpf, EGR, and even rear main seal issues earlier on than the trucks that were run with less oil. Said that it was funny because their service tracking software picked up on it as the operators record where on the stick the oil levels are when they do the pre-op checks and log it. Whenever a systemic problem starts to appear in the fleet, the software starts looking at traits regarding all sorts of data points to predict the occurrence on other vehicles or find a cause that can be mitigated. Said that in the system, just for 2020 year model 6.7 Cummins trucks, they had over 10 Million miles of data. They even provided an anecdotal story that one operator seemed to also have a track record that started to appear on vehicles requiring brake work prematurely. Evidently he is one of those drivers that uses the brake pedal as a foot rest and it was evident on his vehicle logs after several years. They asked some co-workers and they said they yell at him all the time and that even one time they put him at the back of a convoy to FL after a hurricane so that nobody had to stare at his brake light all night long. That was told as a "we trust our data" type of sales pitch. So we shall see what all occurs of this investigation. I'll be sure to follow up here for others with these trucks that may not be able to just delete it due to local regs being more strict.
 
I abuse the fuck out of my 21 ram 3500. I also deleted it at 500 miles... so no emissions complaints from me it'll pull a house down if i ask it to. 28k miles with 22k being hitched to 18k or more.

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I sold my 2019 to a friend and he has 82k on it now, and its been abused as well. No major failures

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With that said my 2020 ram 2500 work truck shit a fuel pump at 14k miles and stranded me. But that was before all the recalls so the dealer got me in and swapped out in 4 days. truck has 48k on it now and its ticking along fine. while i wouldn't choose to own another cp4 truck (the reason i sold my 19) i don't think id shy away from it if that's what is front of me either.
 
AlxJ64 said:
Yea, trust me... its on the wish list but currently VA still has state vehicle inspections and a lot of local shops are checking. If they pass the proposed legislation ending annual inspections and requiring time of sale / registration transfer inspections only then maybe it'll get done.
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The pool of places willing to do the tuning is getting smaller and smaller every day with the EPA push on enforcement.

I love that the crowd around here thinks that the diesel emissions systems are any less complex than gas engine emissions at this point. :shaking: 3-4 cats, oftentimes integrated into manifolds now, and a host of sensors is pretty standard these days with particulate filters coming on the direct injected stuff in the US. Not to mention the EVAP system with overnight leak down tests too.
 
Dan said:
Yeah, I’ve just never seen anything on the dash telling me it was in progress or about to happen.:homer:
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It only shows if on the DPF Filter Status screen. Complicated since when I had my 19, it never showed anything but 0% either, so why leave it on the screen.
 
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TreeClimber said:
There's no indicator, other than a "hot, burning smell" if you happen to shut it off, or, come to a stop with the windows down.
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When I notice mine is in an active regen, I'll flip to the screen and it will just say "Diesel Particulate Filter Regeneration In-Process" until it slips back to zero. Mine is doing an active regen and then in 25 miles it shows back to 25%, then it climbs to about 35% after around 75 to 100 miles (highway driving) and then falls back in regen again. However, this past week, I put like 200 miles on it and it hasn't moved off of 0%, so uncertain what the hell its problem was / is?
 
Update to the above issue with the Regen stuff.
Took the truck in to the dealership and the light went off on the way in... of course. They did the CP4 to CP3 swap, all the ECM flash stuff related to that, and I also had them do the Aisin flush service and the CCV Filter too (I had ordered one but faking FedEx lost it and I didn't have time to wait it out and do it myself before a trip that coming weekend). I also put a new air filter in it.

So the CCV filter and air filter change, did extend the distance between regen events that the light didn't come on. I pulled my small gooseneck with the Carryall on it for about 800 miles and while towing the regen distance went to around 400 miles, but still I wasn't happy because it was close to 900 when the truck was newer.

I finally did an oil change and did notice that the engine oil level was very high on the stick, right at the full mark, if maybe even nipping above it. I did an oil change and also instead of using the Delvac like I had the past two oil changes, I made the effort to find the Rotella T6 and then on the refill brought the level to just under the halfway mark.

Regen distances are now steadily around 800 to 900 miles again, driving around empty. So yea, the combination of the 3 things of CCV Filter, air filter, and oil level seem to make these trucks run into regen more frequently. I guess it makes sense based on oil vapor and what was mentioned above about soot vs ash contamination.
 
That's pretty big doubling your Regen distance.

Also making oil is a little suspect, id monitor that close along with the Regen frequency.
 
CarterKraft said:
That's pretty big doubling your Regen distance.

Also making oil is a little suspect, id monitor that close along with the Regen frequency.
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I don't think its making any oil; I honestly didn't do a good job last time I did the oil change and just dumped all of the 3 gallons in and checked it, it was pretty close to full then but by the time it all made it to the pan, it was a touch over full and had been there for a while. Not so full I was worried about it but evidently, it is in fact an issue.
 
I was thinking about this thread just this weekend while towing with my truck and watching the DPF % going down just from the heat caused by towing.
Ever since ditching the Delvac and not overfilling, I haven't had any real concerns with the Regen frequency or it throwing the light like it did last summer. I have noticed that idling it a good bit on a hot day will run the DPF % up faster than just normal driving, but I am still getting 600 to 800 miles between Regen, and further if I do any decent towing on the regular. It been two oil changes since the post last November and its been with Rotella now that its available again locally. Also, knock on wood that no issues with the CP4 recall work that was done almost a year ago now.

I have a 1,200 mile trip next week though so watch this all come back to bite me.

The truck didn't care about this load last weekend, and if anything I was grinning ear to ear shagging it up some decent windy mountain passes leaving the Shenandoah Valley.

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AlxJ64 said:
I was thinking about this thread just this weekend while towing with my truck and watching the DPF % going down just from the heat caused by towing.
Ever since ditching the Delvac and not overfilling, I haven't had any real concerns with the Regen frequency or it throwing the light like it did last summer. I have noticed that idling it a good bit on a hot day will run the DPF % up faster than just normal driving, but I am still getting 600 to 800 miles between Regen, and further if I do any decent towing on the regular. It been two oil changes since the post last November and its been with Rotella now that its available again locally. Also, knock on wood that no issues with the CP4 recall work that was done almost a year ago now.

I have a 1,200 mile trip next week though so watch this all come back to bite me.

The truck didn't care about this load last weekend, and if anything I was grinning ear to ear shagging it up some decent windy mountain passes leaving the Shenandoah Valley.

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Is that a srw 3500 with an Asian? 373s or 410s?

What kind of empty mileage are you getting?
 
TreeClimber said:
nice. fwiw, you have a nicer trim package than my 2018, as i don't even have oil pressure or temp in my base model
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If it makes you feel any better, my 2015 SLT has the upgraded EVIC with larger screen and those two gauges, and the gauges are worthless. They're not linear like old school gauges, they just kind of go to the "normal" range. If I want to know the temp, etc. I end up scrolling through the screens to get the digital display.
 
truck rolled 43k last week, its my wife wagon for its daily life for the last year but i still use it as truck here and there

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For those interested I hear PPEI has aisan tuning released for the 2010-18 trucks, working on the 19+ trucks now. Can't wait to get that on there, ive heard it bridges the gap of shifting like a MDT unloaded but keeps those quality's in tow/haul mode. Sounds like we may get our cake and eat it too:grinpimp:
 
Projectjunkie said:
Is that a srw 3500 with an Asian? 373s or 410s?

What kind of empty mileage are you getting?
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Yep, 2020 SRW 3500 Mega Cab Laramie with 3.73s. I'm getting high 19s to lower 20s on the highway. Hand checked too. The gauge usually reads 0.5 mpg higher when its up around 20 and its usually a little low when towing heavy and it says its in the 11s but the math usually has it in the 12s. It is more accurate now with the CP4 recall done than before. My cruising boost numbers are lower too but it seems to get into the power band a little quicker with less delay. The CP4 was slow to respond. The pedal lag is notably less now than it was for the first 70k on this truck. I've put 15k on it in about a year post recall. 30% towing duty cycle.
 
AlxJ64 said:
Yep, 2020 SRW 3500 Mega Cab Laramie with 3.73s. I'm getting high 19s to lower 20s on the highway. Hand checked too. The gauge usually reads 0.5 mpg higher when its up around 20 and its usually a little low when towing heavy and it says its in the 11s but the math usually has it in the 12s. It is more accurate now with the CP4 recall done than before. My cruising boost numbers are lower too but it seems to get into the power band a little quicker with less delay. The CP4 was slow to respond. The pedal lag is notably less now than it was for the first 70k on this truck. I've put 15k on it in about a year post recall. 30% towing duty cycle.
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That's killer mileage for an emissions intact rig. Congrats!
 
75RamRunner said:
That's killer mileage for an emissions intact rig. Congrats!
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My commute and most of this truck's driving is on I-64 in Virginia between Charlottesville and Hampton Roads, so its not very steep and I also don't run over 75 with it.
I'll keep track of it on my upcoming trip heading west to Cinci.

Oh, and I put stock size michelin Defenders on it and run them a little on the higher inflated side too.
 
TreeClimber said:
nice. fwiw, you have a nicer trim package than my 2018, as i don't even have oil pressure or temp in my base model
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Nah, mine is a tradesmen probably just the newer cluster since it’s a ‘19.

I almost always have the dash on this screen.
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I got all the recalls done a couple weeks ago and have put a thousand or so miles down, only difference I have noticed is the engine sounds a little different now, more like a truck if that makes sense.:homer:

I don’t know if my mileage has changed any because that’s one thing I never pay attention to in this truck. The DEF seems to be burning at about the same rate as before though.
 
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