2000 Ford F-550 Build

[350TacoZilla]

I have had both but not at same time. You have both 99-04 adapters and rotors and both 05+ regular D60 and SD60 correct? Be bit of work but could try it with used parts before ordering new

 

[Grendel]

I have had both but not at same time. You have both 99-04 adapters and rotors and both 05+ regular D60 and SD60 correct? Be bit of work but could try it with used parts before ordering new

I don't have 2004 Rotors, calipers or abutments (yet). I have the axle but it came without UBs, Rotors and calipers.

 

[350TacoZilla]

Ah gotcha I thought you had a 2wd setup already for the rotors and such. Biggest unknown for me is if the 05 hubs will fit through the 8 lug adapter or if it would need bored a tiny bit. I think the actual locating ring machined into the adapter is right size but hub diameter is bigger so it will be close.

 

[Grendel]

Ah gotcha I thought you had a 2wd setup already for the rotors and such. Biggest unknown for me is if the 05 hubs will fit through the 8 lug adapter or if it would need bored a tiny bit. I think the actual locating ring machined into the adapter is right size but hub diameter is bigger so it will be close.

I have a complete 2009 F550 front, 4wd.

I have a semi complete 2004 F550 front, 4wd. This is currently being fully built out.

 

[06h3]

I looked up wheel bearings and they are the same according to orielly on the 99-04 S135 and 05+ S110/130. Is it safe to assume they can swap hubs?

 

[Grendel]

I looked up wheel bearings and they are the same according to orielly on the 99-04 S135 and 05+ S110/130. Is it safe to assume they can swap hubs?

Did you put 8 lug hubs/brakes on a later S110? Or 10 lug hubs/brakes on a S135?

 

[06h3]

I’m going to stick with 10 lug. I haven’t swapped em. I contemplated it but just picked up an S130 yesterday. If I didn’t I was gonna hub swap my S135.

I’m still puzzled why the S135 is rated for 13,500 lbs and the S130 is 14,706 lbs in an F550 and 16k in other applications when the R&P is 2in smaller, 14.25 vs 12.25

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I’m going to stick with 10 lug. I haven’t swapped em. I contemplated it but just picked up an S130 yesterday. If I didn’t I was gonna hub swap my S135.

I’m still puzzled why the S135 is rated for 13,500 lbs and the S130 is 14,706 lbs in an F550 and 16k in other applications when the R&P is 2in smaller, 14.25 vs 12.25

The 135 r&p is probably overkill, probably limited by the housing or spindles.

14.7k is a lot in a "pick-up" rear axle

When are you swapping the axles?

 

[06h3]

Trying to have the axles and aux trans in by end of June.

I think so, I just read that the s130 has 10mm tube thickness but a 12.25in R&P.

The S135 has 7mm tube thickness but a 14.25in R&P.

I looked up that the wheel bearings are the same up to a Dana S150 (15k) and S130-16 (16k)

So it seems totally housing related, not R&P, or spindles and bearings.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Trying to have the axles and aux trans in by end of June.

I think so, I just read that the s130 has 10mm tube thickness but a 12.25in R&P.

The S135 has 7mm tube thickness but a 14.25in R&P.

I looked up that the wheel bearings are the same up to a Dana S150 (15k) and S130-16 (16k)

So it seems totally housing related, not R&P, or spindles and bearings.

Nice, well let me know in advance when you're doing the front end. I'd love to come help if you want to get rid of the beam axle. Hopefully my F350 will be up and going.

I can bring my hitch mounted cherry picker for moving heavy shit around

 

[Grendel]

Trying to have the axles and aux trans in by end of June.

I think so, I just read that the s130 has 10mm tube thickness but a 12.25in R&P.

The S135 has 7mm tube thickness but a 14.25in R&P.

I looked up that the wheel bearings are the same up to a Dana S150 (15k) and S130-16 (16k)

So it seems totally housing related, not R&P, or spindles and bearings.

So, S130 and S135... what are these from? Last I knew, both were 8 lug.

S110 is the 10 lug?

 

[aczlan]

I’m going to stick with 10 lug. I haven’t swapped em. I contemplated it but just picked up an S130 yesterday. If I didn’t I was gonna hub swap my S135.

I’m still puzzled why the S135 is rated for 13,500 lbs and the S130 is 14,706 lbs in an F550 and 16k in other applications when the R&P is 2in smaller, 14.25 vs 12.25

I was looking for some information on this earlier and I ran across this thread, no idea how factual it is but seemed like the guy knew his axles inside out and backwards:

***Post1
You have always provided excellent information, so I hate to disagree with you, but on the issue of F-450's, of any year, they never, ever, ever, nenenenenenenever, [emoticon] had a Dana S-135 as you have several times stated and suggested in earlier posts.

The Dana S-135 is by definition, and by old (and now revised) Dana Axle description nomenclature, a 13,500 lb axle. No F-450, of any year, cab, option, or frame style, has had a 13,500 lb rear axle. The 450's had up to 12,000 lb rear axles max, which was model and year dependent. I don't normally take such strong stances on issues of non importance (it's just truck axles, no big deal!), but facts are facts.

Yes, you have seen square tubed, welded cover, banjo style housing axles under F-450s, but like I said in my first response, they have been Dana S-110 axles. That doesn't mean 11,000 lb. axle like the 135 meant 13,500 lb. axle. But more on that later. For now, the point is to say that the Dana S110 came out several years after the F-450 diesel power trucks were trucking right along with round tube Dana 80 axles. They couldn't have had the square tube axles you have later seen, because the lighter duty square tube axles were not done being designed yet at the time!

When they did come into production, it was first on and off again, and then fully for a while, and now, since I don't keep up with those things anymore, I have no idea what is used today. Well, maybe a little bit. But I can tell you with absolute certainty what was used during the earlier time period we are loosely discussing, which I will now describe in more detail, because it seems that you still doubt the facts.

There was a moment a dozen years ago when I was standing inside the Kentucky Truck Plant watching F-450's on the production line getting fitted with Dana 80 axles and diesel engines... which is what called my attention to your post in the beginning, whereupon you stated that the Dana 80 axle did not come with diesels on the F-450. Not so. Diesel F-450s did indeed receive Dana 80 axles with round tubes swedged into cast third members with deep finned factory aluminum bolt on axle covers.

F-450's never got Dana S-135's. Never ever ever ever. [emoticon]

Now, what F-450's DID receive, several production years later into the 99 up body style first sold in 1998, was a new "Advanced Technology Drive Axle" that was specifically developed for Class 4 (F-450) and Class 5 (F-550) commercial cab chassis vehicles.

This mantra for this new axle was called "High Power Density"... in otherwords, wringing more out of the ring gear by developing higher capacity gearing with minimal unsprung axle weight, and less cost. The series was introduced at the time when Dana was changing it's axle code nomenclature. In shorthand, it was called the S-110, but the numerolgy is not like that of the S-135.

In the mid to late 90's, when the new Super Duty line was being put together offering more options in full size trucks over 8,500 GVWR than ever offered before by any brand, the axles for the Class 4 and Class 5 were taken somewhat off of Dana's shelf. The Dana 80 was already there. As was the Dana S-135 along with it's thicker housing cousin, the Dana S-150, which was a 15,000 lb axle of similar girth.

The Dana 135 was a huge and heavy monster rear end, with a 14.38" ring gear in a cold rolled, square tube, big bango circular housing that cannibalized ground clearance, added a ton of unsprung weight, and provided the biggest gearing balls hanging underneath any pickup style cabbed low profile truck on the road at the time. It was lifted from straight rail stripped chassis duty and shoe horned into place under the F-550 only, and lived there for about 5 production years, more or less, while a cheaper, lighter, perhaps stronger in some ways axle was developed to take it's place.

The new square tubed housing of the 110 was hot formed, instead of cold rolled like the 135. This enabled process flexibility in a variety of production weldments for spring perches, shock brackets, and stabilizer retention cleats without embrittlement that later leads to cracks appearing in the housing in severe service, such as bucket trucks used by utility companies to service power poles off road on fire trails.

The new 110 series axle also was reshaped to an ovalized carrier and housing to increase ground clearance. The ring gear size was reduced from 14.38" down to 11.8" for the same (and other) reasons. To make up for the loss of mass engagement of ring and pinion contact, a new one piece forged steel ring gear support system was developed to promote greater tooth contact and increase stiffness. An integral pinion bearing added strength and reduced variation, and larger, higher capacity bearings were fitted for longer life at higher loads.

The box section housing height was reduced from 5" down to 4.25", but the plate thickness was increased by 1mm, from 7mm up to 8mm. I mean, what else do you want to know? They are not the same axle. And soon after the S-110 was put into the F-550, Ford and Dana saw fit to introduce an S-130 for the hi capacity F-550, and leave the S-110 for the F-450 and lower capacity F-550.

At some point a new head assembly called the S-130, rated at 14,706 lbs, was designated for the 19,500 GVWR F-550, with the "Payload Plus Package" in marketing speak, while the S-110 rated at 13,660 lbs was for the 17,500 GVWR F-550's.

The F-450s, including the F-450 pick ups between 2008 and 2010, despite being wide frames, got various iterations of the S-110. A design feature in the new S-110 series was flexibility in application between the NTEA standard 34" and the common 37" frame rails. The S-110 in the cab chassis F-450's eventually were rated to 12,000 lbs. The F-450 pickups of that time period that had the Dana S-110 were rated at 11,000 lbs RAWR.

The 2011 F-450 PickUP brought a number of changes again, that included an axle "downgrade" back to a revised Dana 80, rated back down to 9,500 lbs., the same as the F-350 DRW pickup whose frame it shares. And that little bitty Dana 80 is running with the new 400HP/800TQ tuned Scorpion diesel.

At this point I'll describe some Dana nomenclature for the axles discussed, both older and later. The Dana S-135-S that is being debated about here is as follows...

Older Dana Nomenclature for S-135:

Example: S 135 S L

First S = Spicer

135 x 1,000 = 13,500 lb axle weight rating

Second S = Single Reduction

Substitute L or N for Second S (or add L or N after second S) = Differential Lock. Two styles: TrueTrac Helical or Detroit Locker.

Newer Dana Nomenclature for S-110:

Example: S 14 110 L

First S = Single Rear Axle

Next 2 digit number not used in short hand model number, but used on the label to distinguish axle capacity, which explains why a Dana S-110 can be found in both an F-450 and an F-550... because not every S-110 is built the same way, that's why!

14 x 1000 = 14,000 lbs axle

110 is broken down as follows

1 = Standard Single Reduction
1 = Head Assembly Series
0 = Design Level

L = Limited Slip
W = Wide Track for the Pick ups (no longer fitted)
D = Differential Lock (ie, Detroit Locker, not available in Fords)

There's also Bus specifc, Heavy wall, and various parking brake and retarder options that are not available on Fords, so not listed here.


In conclusion, no, there was never a Dana 135 in any F-450 of any type. And yes, there has been Dana 80s in diesel F-450s, in both cab chassis and pick up versions alike, in both early 99 up chassis cabs, and now again in 2011 up 450 pickups, alike, in any an all gear ratios and engines that Ford made available for the F-450. And finally, yes, there was, and is, a square tube axle F-450s of more recent years, but those were Dana 110 axles, not the Dana 135.

Clear as mud?

Aaron Z

 

[aczlan]

***Post2

Big Toe alluded to "at some point" the F550 went from having an S135 over to the S130 at least on a few high GVWR F550's. I also wonder if they put them on any of the 4x4 F550's.....or for that matter, do they right now?

The determining factor for the issuance of an S130 axle upfit is the payload package ordered, NOT the presence of four wheel drive. Basically, I'm talking about the 19,500 GVWR option in newer F-550s that would normally receive S110 axles.

Not only does the axle get upgraded, the frame in the high GVWR optioned 550s also gets a substantial section modulus increase as well, by the addition of formed L channel reinforcement sleeves that are wrapped and riveted to the web and one flange of the existing frame, with an angular break at the bed to cab junction and a flipped L channel frame wrap under about 3 feet of the cab.

Back to the axles... the first and still active axle replacement for the S135 on the F550 was and is the S110. Before the S110, there was a High Capacity towing option available for certian F-550s that used the S135 axle, and the upgrade was to substitute full synthetic gear oil (again, 3 gallons) in lieu of the mineral based gear oil that was standard issue in that axle.

Yes, even though most other Ford light trucks of the era had synthetic as factory fill, the F-550 (and ONLY the F-550, not the 450, jab jab in fun) had the S135 which was factory filled with mineral based gear oil, EXCEPT those F-550s that had the HiCapacity towing option.

The F-450 is the topic of the original post, so bringing the discussion back to that brings us back to the Dana 80 axle, which was the standard and only axle available in ALL the F-450s for the first 4+ years of production in the 99 up body style. The Dana S110 came online at some point later, around mid 2004-ish production, and I am purposely being vague because 1) I do not know the specific dates, and 2) there was some changing back and forth during introduction of the S110... i.e. you can find F450s with later build dates that have the Dana 80, and earlier build dates that have the S110, all within the same production period of time that the S110 first was introduced.

Because the F550s eventually received the S110 also, not just the F450, I believe that is where it appears that both 450s and 550s always received the same axle if some other common condition applied, like diesel, or 4x4, or whatever. But that is neither the reasoning nor the case. The chassis gets the appropriate axle for the weight the chassis is rated for. Weight rating is the determing factor, not the rest of the driveline.

The big change in 2004 was the introduction of the High Power Density axles that eventually retired the big S135 axle pictured above. So while the square tube axle appears the same, it is actually a different axle. And while for the next 5 years, from 2005 through 2010, both the F450 and certain F550s did receive the visually identical square tubed S110 axle, the ratings of the S110 axles are different between those applications. And again, other F550s received the S130 axle, and still do even right now for 2013.

It's all based on GVWR, not 4x4 or diesel.

Aaron Z

 

[Grendel]

I'll have a S110 and a S135 here, along with matching fronts in a few weeks.

We'll figure out what crosses and what doesn't

 

[Grendel]

I'll have a S110 and a S135 here, along with matching fronts in a few weeks.

We'll figure out what crosses and what doesn't

Whelp, already figured out:

Project Mayhem - A Build Thread

Moving my tow pig "build" thread from Powerstroke.org to here. https://www.powerstroke.org/threads/project-mayhem-a-build-thread.1224737/ March 2017: Hello everyone, PSD newb here, but jumping in with both feet. By posting this thread, I wanted to introduce myself to both contribute to the...

irate4x4.com

 

[GLTHFJ60]

So reading this info (since so many threads are littered with this right now) the S135 was round center section F550s were 04-, but mine had a S110 in (late) 04. The 2000 F550 for this thread should have a S135.

The S130 was the same housing as the S110, but a slightly larger ring gear, and larger axle shafts. The S130 guts can go inside the S110 housings without modification.

Dana even shows that the S130 is oval:

Single Reduction Medium-Duty Single Drive Axle S130 | Dana Commercial Vehicle

The S130 Single Drive Axle is ideal for medium-duty applications. The patented features of this durable axle offer longer life and quieter operation.

global.dana.com

 

[06h3]

The other change I have read is that the housing on the s110 is 8mm the 130 is 10mm

The S135 is only 7mm and I have cracked the housing. Supposedly the S135 is some special HSLA metal. Idk if the 110 and 130 use regular old mild steel or not.

 

[Grendel]

The other change I have read is that the housing on the s110 is 8mm the 130 is 10mm

The S135 is only 7mm and I have cracked the housing. Supposedly the S135 is some special HSLA metal. Idk if the 110 and 130 use regular old mild steel or not.

yeah, beats the fawk out of me.

Tempted to go for an S175 in 10lug :)

 

[GLTHFJ60]

From the above copied forum posts, the older S135 is just a different design. Center section with tubes somewhat integrated, vs an entire fabricated housing.

Who knows if you'll crack a S110 housing 06h3 , but you probably won't crack a S130 housing given the same weight. Just be careful if you go out to buy one. I thought I was ordering a S110 4.30 diff (that's how it was listed), and had them send the axle shafts just in case. Glad I did, because it's a S130 diff.

The good thing is that if you do decide to upgrade the rear end, you should be able to put the older S135 8 lug hubs on it without issue. If not, then you'll have to find a S110 8 lug hub set to match your current wheels.

 

[Levigarrett76]

The other change I have read is that the housing on the s110 is 8mm the 130 is 10mm

The S135 is only 7mm and I have cracked the housing. Supposedly the S135 is some special HSLA metal. Idk if the 110 and 130 use regular old mild steel or not.

is the s135 housing not larger diameter? I thought i read that somewhere recently

 

[06h3]

I’ve got an S135 and a 110/130 (unsure which) at home. I’ll measure When I get home in a couple days.

I’ll have to update this thread tonight. My new axles and suspension. I just hope the S110 isn’t a downgrade. I’ll express my concerns later

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Saw burnt shit and knew you were in CA :(

I'm sure it sucks to feel like you're going down with a 14.5 vs 12.5 ring gear. But I've been around quite a few of those F4/550s and the only one I ever heard of having issues was a 00 F450 loaded to 16k lbs 100% of the time and the D80 wasn't happy.

Lots of newer ones running 20-26k all the time. Googe says ram uses the 110 in 4/5500s also.

Is the 110 the late model Eaton of tomorrow?

 

[Grendel]

110 if from a F450.

 

[CDA 455 II]

I’ve got an S135 and a 110/130 (unsure which) at home. I’ll measure When I get home in a couple days.

I’ll have to update this thread tonight. My new axles and suspension. I just hope the S110 isn’t a downgrade. I’ll express my concerns later

Is there anything out of that I can buy off you?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I'd be inclined to think they're F550 because of the 4.88s.

Nevermind, just read they offered 5.38s in F450s

 

[aczlan]

I'm sure it sucks to feel like you're going down with a 14.5 vs 12.5 ring gear. But I've been around quite a few of those F4/550s and the only one I ever heard of having issues was a 00 F450 loaded to 16k lbs 100% of the time and the D80 wasn't happy.

From what I read they reduced the size, but changed the support system behind it to make it stronger.

Aaron Z

 

[arse_sidewards]

Is the 110 the late model Eaton of tomorrow?

Only took 50yr

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Only took 50yr

Not to derail even more, but out of curiosity, I looked up the 3rd, 220lbs......

 

[arse_sidewards]

Not to derail even more, but out of curiosity, I looked up the 3rd, 220lbs......

How much does an HO72 3rd weigh?

 

[06h3]

Definitely not 220! I have an HO72 in my H3. They are manageable to put in by myself under the rig