Build Another YJ unlimited build

06h3 said:
What are the concerns about the pad having a biggersurface area then the rotor? Wont it just cause a small amount of pad that never gets worn and nothing else major?
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It's a pretty small amount, (.030-.050 on my calibrated eye-crometer) so if I didn't have any other options I'd just run it. I'm so early in the build process that a small change is easy. I tried the later rotors and they fit everything else great AND leave 1/16-1/8" on the inside and outside of the pad, so why not change it? It amounted to a 3/32" change on the bracket I'm making to hold the caliper. The later rotor is also about 5/8" bigger, so there is a slight improvement in braking to be round there as well.
 
I have the brake caliper sorted out. 2015ish F250 rear caliper with a 2005 F250 front rotor. I made my own caliper bracket to bridge from the unit bearing mounting bolts to the caliper and here it is. This was made from lighter material for fitting purposes. I'll make the final product look a bit more elegant rather than the fred flintstone fab that you see here.

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I am using a torque arm suspension which is a bit unconventional in the off road world. It uses a torque arm to control axle wrap and keep the pinion pointed at the transfercase, 2 control arms to locate the axle fore and aft, and a track bar to locate the axle laterally.

The torque arm is effectively like a traction bar on a leaf spring suspension. I wanted is mounted as close to the vehicle centerline to avoid any asymmetric loading under acceleration or deceleration. The Ford 8.8" has been a popular swap for a long time in the drag race world so I was able to find a torque arm mount for an F-body camaro that worked great. I even used the aft 6-8" of an F-body torque arm grafted with the Nth degree torque arm. The 9" is also popular with the drag race crowd, but NONE of the torque arm mounts for 9's didn't compromise ground clearance under the axle. I had to figure out a way to control the axle wrap without mounting anything under the axle. James Duff makes a traction bar mount that uses 3 or 4 of the 3rd member bolts on the left side on the center section. I thought this looked like a decent option until I read the instructions that specifically say that it is "not for rockcrawling or vehicles with more than 400 HP". I don't have 400 hp, but I love the rocks.

Once I read those instructions, it occurred to me that using the 3rd member fasteners exclusively to control axle wrap probably wasn't a good idea. I needed to figure out how to transfer the load to the housing, which would be easy if I didn't mind compromising ground clearance, but I do.

This is what I came up with. I used a ruff stuff 9" pinion guard. (has ruff stuff shipping gotten super slow for everyone?)

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A little CAD work to build a bridge over the top.
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More CAD to tie it in to the top of the housing.
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CAD to tie in to the housing on the right side of the 3rd.
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It started to come together.
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The most challenging part was locating the torque arm fasteners on the LH side of the pinion. I guess I don't have any pics of this but here is the final result.
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All of the structure of this is 3/8" strap. I obviously notched and bent it all, then rewelded the notch. I used a brace like this when welding them to preserve the angle more precisely.
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The whole thing fastens to the housing with 1/2" bolts. You can remove the 3rd with the structure still fastened to it, or remove it from the 3rd/axle and then removed the 3rd member. There isn't much elegant about it but it does remove most of the forces from the 3rd member fasteners. The loads that do remain on the pinion support bolts are mostly shear rather than tension based on my force vector sketches.
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Once that was sorted, I dove in to fitting it in the jeep.

Torque arm mounted.
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Nothing all that interesting except it is all tacked in place except my sway bar mounts.
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I'll final weld everything in the next few days. I'm also working on adding a Tesla E-brake caliper to the axle so I'll be making that bracket as well.
 
Nice... kinda looks like "The third member in the Iron mask"

Beef tho and thought put into it to make it as accessible as possible to remove.

I like how you don't have to remove it from the third to drop out.
 
NDCjeepsmith said:
Nice... kinda looks like "The third member in the Iron mask"

Beef tho and thought put into it to make it as accessible as possible to remove.

I like how you don't have to remove it from the third to drop out.
Click to expand...
Thanks, I'm not sure it makes sense to remove it in one piece yet. A stock 9" 3rd is flipping heavy, and this adds another chunk of weight. I haven't tried yet.
 
This showed up today. Pretty stoked to see it, but I don't think I'll get to start on the install until I get back from my next wheeling trip in a month. I'll probably throw the 8.8 back in until I get back from that trip and then wrap up both ends when I get back.

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Carp3N0ct3m said:
That's Skinners LH. Things badass. Hemi Swap Tons 42" BFGs thing goes everywhere he points it at too!!

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I'll look that up, thanks!
 
Made it to Sand Hollow and back, even got 30 min of wheeling with Pyleit in. Time to get back to the build.

I currently have crossover steering on my HP44, meaning a PartsMike high steer arm on the RH knuckle and the tie rod in the standard location.

I was planning the same for the 60, but the more I think about it, the more I can figure out why I wouldn't want to go full high steer. I have stock 05+ super duty knuckles. I was planning on sending the passenger side to Weaver for machining and their arm. Why wouldn't I send the LH as well? Will packaging be a nightmare? I have no frame mods so up travel could potentially be limited, but it currently is not affected. I also have a PSC ram assist to account for as well. My first thought is it may give the tie rod an easier path around the diff cover, but I have nothing to base that on.
 
Why boat run heims in double shear? This is my 99/04 axle with Mofab double shear arms on it. Can you do this with weaver fab? I would think high steer would put your linkage in to the frame rails. Mofab does same thing for 05+. Mount you assist there as well?
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Rangerrod said:
Why boat run heims in double shear? This is my 99/04 axle with Mofab double shear arms on it. Can you do this with weaver fab? I would think high steer would put your linkage in to the frame rails. Mofab does same thing for 05+. Mount you assist there as well?
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Click to expand...
I didn't really want to use heims, was planning on TRE's.

I'll look in to Mofab.
 
Last edited:
Back to work on this.

I got all of the rear axle brackets fully welded this week. I stripped down the axle and bolted in the fixture to see how crooked I made it welding it. The drivers side is around 5/32-3/16" off.

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The pax side is just shy of an 1/8"

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I'll bring home the Oxy/Acy from the shop tonight and give straightening this out a try.
 
I spent an hour with the torch and a bucket of ice water and got them this straight.

Drivers side



Pax Side



They are a hair off. It takes a little pressure to flex the alignment bar so they drop in. I tried to measure and it was less than .015" so I'm calling it good enough unless I get ambitious when I go out there today. The reality is that I'm measuring on the ID of the DOM that the tubes are made of, which isn't perfect down to the .001".

I'm hoping to get the bearing cups tacked in to place today. Not sure why, but that has me more intimidated than it should. I'm pretty confident I can get them square to the tubes and the faces parallel without too much headache.
 
YJLOPES said:
I have the brake caliper sorted out. 2015ish F250 rear caliper with a 2005 F250 front rotor. I made my own caliper bracket to bridge from the unit bearing mounting bolts to the caliper and here it is. This was made from lighter material for fitting purposes. I'll make the final product look a bit more elegant rather than the fred flintstone fab that you see here.

IMG_5067.jpeg
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Click to expand...
Can you put a little upward lean towards the bleeder? With it flat like that, it seems it will trap air on the rearward piston.
 
Rockwood said:
Can you put a little upward lean towards the bleeder? With it flat like that, it seems it will trap air on the rearward piston.
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That's not the final angle. The axle isn't in the installed position in that pic. It ends up where it needs to be.
 
Drilled and tapered the steering arms. Cut the tubing and tacked the bungs in for the tie rod.

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Waited a few days to work up the nerve to take apart a rig that is running good. Pulled the from 44 yesterday and slid the 60 under just to see it close to where it's going to live. Hopefully an hour or 2 at night between dinner in bed over the next few months will get this thing together.

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I made a bad decision and pissed away a lot of money and time on my other hobby. I haven't touched this much for 6 weeks or so but I've been back at it in the last couple of days.

I got the leaf spring hangers cut off of the frame and the frame cleaned up. I installed the radius arms on the axle, joints on the arms, and the control arm brackets bolted on the joints. I positioned the axle within 1/8-1/4" every which way and clamped the brackets in place on the frame.

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They look like they'll fit fine where they are. The arms look like they'll clear without any problems as well. The driveshaft may get intimate with the header, but we'll see.

This did bring to light a problem I've heard about, but wasn't planning for on this for some reason. I have a set of 05+ knuckles that I sent to Weaver for machining and arms. I drilled them to put the tie rod on the bottom and I was planning on putting the drag link on top. Now that I see it in place, it looks like the tie rod will hit the pitman arm/drag link.

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The easy button is just to put the tie rod in the stock location, which is how I'm leaning. That will require using Super Duty TRE's, or maybe just some offset TREs from Ruffstuff and inserts. I'm not sure what the play is right now. I'm not real interested in relocating the box this winter.

Here's a couple more pics I took before I called it a night.

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Hooligan said:
With a few years on it, how are you liking this tire carrier? Does it rattle, any issues holding the 37”?
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No issues holding the 37.

It has some rattles, but I've been able to tone them down with some bumpers. I have ideas of more, but it just hasn't been a priority.

Overall I'm happy. It's a bit more overlanderish than I'd like. I've never needed the 2 rotopax that it'll hold, but I look fly as **** at cars and coffee.
 
Hooligan said:
With a few years on it, how are you liking this tire carrier? Does it rattle, any issues holding the 37”?
Click to expand...
I took a pic of the bumper I added to the upper fitting. It helped a bunch, as most of the rattling was here, but now I think I want to add one to the bottom.

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The radius arm mounts land on the frame where the rails are tapering in, so the end up displacing the joint a ways from neutral when the axle is at ride height. You can see the misalignment here.

Driver's side
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Passenger side
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So I marked the bracket and made a slice to bend it 9 degrees so the joint would be neutral.

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Now the joints are aligned with the arms at ride height.

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Not a lot of progress today, but a little here and a little there. Hopefully tack these on the frame in the next day or 3 and start looking at the coil/shock mounts on the frame and axle. Track bar needs some attention as well, waiting on UPS for those parts.
 
Coilovers on the front end of this thing are starting to make more sense from a packaging standpoint from the frame down. From the frame up, I'm not sure I want to deal with a crossmember between the shock towers. How high above the frame can I go before a crossmember becomes necessary? I don't jump this thing regularly, but I don't want it to be fragile either.
 
I got the control arm mounts tacked to the frame and started studying the track bar and steering. It looked like they weren't going to fit at all. I went round and round and finally decided that moving things back 1" would be miles of help. This wasn't much of a sacrifice because I was already 3-3.5" forward of stock.

Once I moved everything back 1", everything fell in to place pretty well. I took the stock YJ track bar that I had modified to be longer and fit with the leaf springs and previous stretch, (yep, I'm weird and preferred the steering precision that came with the track bar) and started slicing it on the inside of where I needed bends. I'd make a series of cuts ~80% through the diameter, bend it closed, and weld it there. This is just for fitting purposes, and hopefully will give me a good pattern for a final track bar when my buddy brings his bender over.

Here are some pics of the final fit.

This is at full stuff. The track bar needs a little more bend to clear the inboard side of the diff cover, otherwise it fits pretty well.
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The pitman arm and TRE clear the diff cover just fine, but I think the tie rod will hit the TRE, so I'm exploring using the Genright Twisted Pitman armco move the rod end up an inch or so. I think that will make it all fit okay. Anyone have experience with that?

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I am struggling with what to do for a tie rod. I was warned earlier in the thread that the Weaver arms would put the tie rod in to the frame, and it sure does. I've decided to move the drag link to the bottom of the Weaver arm, and move the tie rod to the stock location. This will require notching the frame to clear the drag link.

The tie rod is proving to be more challenging. I don't think GM TRE's will work, because the ear where they fit on the knuckle is too thick (~1.5" drivers side and ~1 3/8" passenger). I'm not excited about heims, and I don't think anyone makes them with enough offset. I'd like to keep the tie rod straight so alignment adjustments remain easy and more precise with LH/RH threads. I'm looking hard at Rare Parts 1.25" forgings.

www.rareparts.com

FAB SERIES TIE ROD END FORGING 1 1/4-12 LH 2.0 OFFSET

1.25"-12 Forging with LH Threads2" Offset - 12.070" center to end
www.rareparts.com www.rareparts.com

I think this with a matching RH on the drivers side is a decent setup. I'm just trying to figure out what cartridge to get.

Fab Series > Cartridges

www.rareparts.com www.rareparts.com

I think I'd prefer a tapered TRE, but the 3/4 straight shank may be the ticket.

I'm planning to call them in a bit to see if I can get some info on the other TRE's and see if any will fit on the thicker ear that the 05+ super duty knuckle has.

Any other suggestions?
 
YJLOPES said:
The pitman arm and TRE clear the diff cover just fine, but I think the tie rod will hit the TRE, so I'm exploring using the Genright Twisted Pitman armco move the rod end up an inch or so. I think that will make it all fit okay. Anyone have experience with that?
Click to expand...
It might be worth seeing if flipping the tre to the top of the pitman arm will do what you need. There’s usually enough meat in them to ream them for a 1-ton tre from the opposite side or use one of the tapered inserts. It might save you from the cost of the Genright arm since they’re pretty proud of them.
 
Post 112, 3rd pic, just under the sharpie line, is that a crack in the bracket?
 
Finally wrapped up the rear brake caliper brackets, The only thing left to do on the rear end as far as fab work is the sway bar brackets. After that I'll start painting and final assembly.
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I'm trying to decide if I should weld these 2 brackets together and make them one unit. Why should I or shouldn't I run a bead about where I'm pointing and on the opposite side?

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The next thing that is kicking my ass is the steering. I keep making 1-2 steps forward, then 1 1/2 back. I spent a ton of time talking to Glen at Rare parts and I think I can make all of this work, but it has been a challenge. The Rare Parts stuff is beefy, so it isn't small. I've settled on crossover steering, but I'd like to keep the tie rod on top of the ears on the knuckles. That is creating this conflict.

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This is the TRE for the drag link at the furthest forward hole in the Weaver arm, which isn't where I want it, but it shows the problem pretty well. There isn't much room between the high steer arm and the ear on the knuckle.

I thought I had pics...but I machined a pocket in the ear of the knuckle so the tie rod TRE sits about 1/4" lower. That helped a bunch, but the next thing I think I'm going to do is machine around 1/4" off of the bottom of the Weaver arm where the drag link will fit in to it, then I'll make a plate to fit on top, and tie in to the forward bolt or 2 that bolt the arm to the knuckle. The end goal being to move the drag link TRE up 1/4" without compromising any strength in the arm.

Clear as mud?
 
YJLOPES said:
I'm trying to decide if I should weld these 2 brackets together and make them one unit. Why should I or shouldn't I run a bead about where I'm pointing and on the opposite side?

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Click to expand...

I think I would weld it.

YJLOPES said:
The next thing that is kicking my ass is the steering. I keep making 1-2 steps forward, then 1 1/2 back. I spent a ton of time talking to Glen at Rare parts and I think I can make all of this work, but it has been a challenge. The Rare Parts stuff is beefy, so it isn't small. I've settled on crossover steering, but I'd like to keep the tie rod on top of the ears on the knuckles. That is creating this conflict.

IMG_8014.jpeg


This is the TRE for the drag link at the furthest forward hole in the Weaver arm, which isn't where I want it, but it shows the problem pretty well. There isn't much room between the high steer arm and the ear on the knuckle.

I thought I had pics...but I machined a pocket in the ear of the knuckle so the tie rod TRE sits about 1/4" lower. That helped a bunch, but the next thing I think I'm going to do is machine around 1/4" off of the bottom of the Weaver arm where the drag link will fit in to it, then I'll make a plate to fit on top, and tie in to the forward bolt or 2 that bolt the arm to the knuckle. The end goal being to move the drag link TRE up 1/4" without compromising any strength in the arm.

Clear as mud?
Click to expand...

I guess I don’t understand. Is the tie rod going down on the knuckle or it will be spaced up like in the pic? Could the drag link go on top of the high steer? I probably don’t got the whole picture, but I would put the tie rod just below the HS arm and the drag link on top. It would be nice if you could run a long bolt through the knuckle/tierod/high steer with some beefy spacers to get the tierod against the HS arm.
 
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