Vehicle prices that make you say WTF?

[arse_sidewards]

Dude, you own just about the worst 4-banger of the 80s. Doing it dozens of times doesn't give you street cred. It just makes you a fucking retard with Stockholm syndrome.

It's a real shame that the ancestors of people like you didn't live in the right places 100yr ago or they'd have been purged as undesirable.

 

[Steve300xcw]

You're closed minded because you're unwilling to understand the deficiencies of the shit you like.

Arent you the guy with 5 backup subaroo's?

 

[rockota]

Dude, you own just about the worst 4-banger of the 80s. Doing it dozens of times doesn't give you street cred. It just makes you a fucking retard with Stockholm syndrome.

It's a real shame that the ancestors of people like you didn't live in the right places 100yr ago or they'd have been purged as undesirable.

What makes it the worst 4-cyl of the 80’s? Educate the class.

 

[Provience]

What makes it the worst 4-cyl of the 80’s? Educate the class.

Nothing, it's fine.

I killed several, but significant water consumption isn't a design problem

 

[Mikenike]

Nothing, it's fine.

I killed several, but significant water consumption isn't a design problem

And yet i have seen rangers take on the same holes as the same size tire and lift toyota. The rangers came out. The toyota did not. But that was its 3rd engine anyway since the headgaskets got the first 2.

 

[Provience]

And yet i have seen rangers take on the same holes as the same size tire and lift toyota. The rangers came out. The toyota did not. But that was its 3rd engine anyway since the headgaskets got the first 2.

The first one is when I learned how important it was to move the air intake away from the headlight

Import lessons in high school

 

[Mikenike]

Because something dumb happened. Hard to find a first gen tacoma with those miles



Shut your dirty whore mouth



No rust issues around here so you dont see that as an issue. Plently of 250k+ rigs for sale that says they did allright. Nothing spectacular, but they generally kept on keepin on.

I thought about it on my way home and keep in mind there aren't really rust problems here to kill them here either. I couldn't even think of the last time I saw one that age going down the road under its own power. Even the fucking chevrolets outlived them here and they build an awful truck. They might not be saying it in those for sale ads but i am willing to bet most of those trucks are on a different engine than it left the factory with. Of the people i know who have or had those trucks not a single one is rocking its original powertrain. Even the stock babied ones. See below.

The 22re is just fine. It went through more head gaskets than the 3.0, and the timing chain guides suck.

But the number of 4-cyl engines you’re ignoring is asinine

Time to piss off you and the other yota fanboys i guess. Engines that treat things like headgaskets, timing chains, pushrods, and long blocks as consumables aren't good engines. Also "not having enough power to hurt itself" is both a lie you use to console your boyfriends and not nearly the brag toyota fags think it is. All mechanical shit possesses the ability to make itself non functional in an unscheduled and spectacular way. Anything that spends its life screaming to make not nearly enough power to accomplish the work set it will die many deaths. It would be like asking you to run full out toting 350 pounds for the rest of your life nonstop. How long before you keel over do you think you would make it?

 

[Mikenike]

Dude, you own just about the worst 4-banger of the 80s. Doing it dozens of times doesn't give you street cred. It just makes you a fucking retard with Stockholm syndrome.

It's a real shame that the ancestors of people like you didn't live in the right places 100yr ago or they'd have been purged as undesirable.

Arent you the guy with 5 backup subaroo's?

I know this is always painful but even blind squirrels and all that. It takes one to know one you know. Just because he seems way too pissy about it doesn't make him wrong.

The first one is when I learned how important it was to move the air intake away from the headlight

Import lessons in high school

Yeah he learned that too... The first lesson he should of learned was to lose the truck when it ate the first 2 long blocks. God even his rusty s10 made it though the hole. And we all know how i feel about gm products.

 

[Provience]

I thought about it on my way home and keep in mind there aren't really rust problems here to kill them here either. I couldn't even think of the last time I saw one that age going down the road under its own power. Even the fucking chevrolets outlived them here and they build an awful truck. They might not be saying it in those for sale ads but i am willing to bet most of those trucks are on a different engine than it left the factory with. Of the people i know who have or had those trucks not a single one is rocking its original powertrain. Even the stock babied ones. See below.

Time to piss off you and the other yota fanboys i guess. Engines that treat things like headgaskets, timing chains, pushrods, and long blocks as consumables aren't good engines. Also "not having enough power to hurt itself" is both a lie you use to console your boyfriends and not nearly the brag toyota fags think it is. All mechanical shit possesses the ability to make itself non functional in an unscheduled and spectacular way. Anything that spends its life screaming to make not nearly enough power to accomplish the work set it will die many deaths. It would be like asking you to run full out toting 350 pounds for the rest of your life nonstop. How long before you keel over do you think you would make it?

What?

Not the same.

It's not super low compression, but it's not high compression and tight tolerance like the modern stuff.

Timing sets are wear items and don't hurt anything when they die and take an hour to swap out, giving lots of notice in advance. The EFI is multi port, 2 valve heads rarely crack, plenty of cylinder wall to rebuild blocks several times, no critical engine sensors to fail unlike the flywheel or crank pulley common on domestics at the time. No pushrods to fail

The dual turbo eco boost in an f150 is the example of living at the edge of stress.

Some people think maintenance is a failure. Stick with new cars and warranty in that case

 

[Mikenike]

What?

Not the same.

It's not super low compression, but it's not high compression and tight tolerance like the modern stuff.

Timing sets are wear items and don't hurt anything when they die and take an hour to swap out, giving lots of notice in advance. The EFI is multi port, 2 valve heads rarely crack, plenty of cylinder wall to rebuild blocks several times, no critical engine sensors to fail unlike the flywheel or crank pulley common on domestics at the time. No pushrods to fail

The dual turbo eco boost in an f150 is the example of living at the edge of stress.

Some people think maintenance is a failure. Stick with new cars and warranty in that case

I dont own an eco boost and i wouldnt for exactly that reason. Not to mention talk about an apple to an orange. Talking about 40 years more advanced and complicated technology and nowhere close to the same era. As arse said FOR ITS TIME the 22re is a huge pos. While I understand why the ecoboost exists thanks to the government and fuel costs i think they are stupid so i wouldnt know. That said I have never had to do a timing set on anything i own ever. Might be a wear item but i dont think they are supposed to give up every 30k. Same for a head gasket.

Rebuilding blocks is not maintenance. Im not sure why fuel injection or head cracks matter as I didn't mention either one but never had to fuck with those either. I have also never owned more than like one car with less than 150k. Repeat after me.... Major engine work and replacement is not "maintenance". Also if that was true then they are even worse than i thought because they did replace the engines.... Which means i can only conclude the turd fell apart so many times it didnt have any rebuild left.

I have owned or experienced through family or friends the ownership of pretty much any common car/truck. All kinds of makes and models. I owned vws and audis and even a merc and a packard once. I also had several dodges. And other than that spiteful piece of shit dodge ram that spent time auditioning to be a submarine id take most all over anything with a 22re. Actually in hindsight id take the submarine dodge over it too. Atleast the cummins in it always ran and never needed timing sets.

 

[[memphis]]

Something that made me realize some of this pricing isn’t that bad…

Reviewing my insurance documents my 2004 TJ Rubicon had a MSRP of $33k in 2004 (Canada)

Using an inflation calculator that dollar figure converts to roughly $55,000

A 2024 JL 2dr Rubicon with a dual top group and some similar accessories I added (rocker guards, interior handles) came in at $62,000

The JL gives you some extra air bags, a better stereo and some Bluetooth capabilities and probably some additional safety figures like traction control and ABS

When I saw the numbers I was shocked. Jeep is a bad example because they are overpriced. It made me see how much better value our MDX is for 10k more than a rubicon

 

[arse_sidewards]

I thought about it on my way home and keep in mind there aren't really rust problems here to kill them here either. I couldn't even think of the last time I saw one that age going down the road under its own power. Even the fucking chevrolets outlived them here and they build an awful truck. They might not be saying it in those for sale ads but i am willing to bet most of those trucks are on a different engine than it left the factory with. Of the people i know who have or had those trucks not a single one is rocking its original powertrain. Even the stock babied ones. See below.

Time to piss off you and the other yota fanboys i guess. Engines that treat things like headgaskets, timing chains, pushrods, and long blocks as consumables aren't good engines. Also "not having enough power to hurt itself" is both a lie you use to console your boyfriends and not nearly the brag toyota fags think it is. All mechanical shit possesses the ability to make itself non functional in an unscheduled and spectacular way. Anything that spends its life screaming to make not nearly enough power to accomplish the work set it will die many deaths. It would be like asking you to run full out toting 350 pounds for the rest of your life nonstop. How long before you keel over do you think you would make it?

Yeah, pretty much this.

The Olds 350 diesel would semi-randomly pop a head gasket (for fuel related reasons) and dump coolant into the case and the driver would continue on in blissful ignorance until the bottom end was trash. FWD ecoboost water pumps fail dumping into the oil. Both of those are regarded as massive pieces of shit over such failure modes whereas the 22RE gets a pass because the people who adore the vehicles it came in are shitty people and they make excuses for it left and right. Like a fucking battered housewife only dumber.

Arent you the guy with 5 backup subaroo's?

They're not backups. They're just more Subarus.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Arent you the guy with 5 backup subaroo's?

They're not backups. They're just more Subarus.

 

[arse_sidewards]

What?

Not the same.

It's not super low compression, but it's not high compression and tight tolerance like the modern stuff.

Timing sets are wear items and don't hurt anything when they die and take an hour to swap out, giving lots of notice in advance. The EFI is multi port, 2 valve heads rarely crack, plenty of cylinder wall to rebuild blocks several times, no critical engine sensors to fail unlike the flywheel or crank pulley common on domestics at the time. No pushrods to fail

Now remove the "timing sets are wear items" and you've described damn near every other 80s 4-banger. None of that shit is remarkable in any way. It's like when OEMs list "adjustable seats" as a feature.

Some people think maintenance is a failure. Stick with new cars and warranty in that case

The frequency of having to do invasive shit absolutely is a failure.

I run a fleet known for head gaskets and I do less of them than the 22RE crowd does.

 

[Provience]

I dont own an eco boost and i wouldnt for exactly that reason. Not to mention talk about an apple to an orange. Talking about 40 years more advanced and complicated technology and nowhere close to the same era. As arse said FOR ITS TIME the 22re is a huge pos. While I understand why the ecoboost exists thanks to the government and fuel costs i think they are stupid so i wouldnt know. That said I have never had to do a timing set on anything i own ever. Might be a wear item but i dont think they are supposed to give up every 30k. Same for a head gasket.

Rebuilding blocks is not maintenance. Im not sure why fuel injection or head cracks matter as I didn't mention either one but never had to fuck with those either. I have also never owned more than like one car with less than 150k. Repeat after me.... Major engine work and replacement is not "maintenance". Also if that was true then they are even worse than i thought because they did replace the engines.... Which means i can only conclude the turd fell apart so many times it didnt have any rebuild left.

I have owned or experienced through family or friends the ownership of pretty much any common car/truck. All kinds of makes and models. I owned vws and audis and even a merc and a packard once. I also had several dodges. And other than that spiteful piece of shit dodge ram that spent time auditioning to be a submarine id take most all over anything with a 22re. Actually in hindsight id take the submarine dodge over it too. Atleast the cummins in it always ran and never needed timing sets.

You complained about push rods being a weak link for a 22re, of course I'm not going to address exactly what you stated and talk about other things.



Timing set every decade or two is too much for you yes, that is a wear item. Just like every bearing and guide and chain and tensioner is a wear item in everything else.

People replace engine over stupid minor stuff all the time because it quicker in their head or they don't know what they are doing. You've never replaced a timing set yet everything you have starts at 150k. Explains a while lot, means you are the dude that replaces a whole engine over a $20 chain or piece of plastic

 

[DMG]

Pull your head out of your ass. The 22RE is exceptionally shitty for its era.

Pretty much every Japanese 4banger of the 80s except the 22RE is solid.

GM has the Iron Duke and Ford has the 2.3. Chrysler has whatever they were buying from Mitsu and AMC has their I6 based 4banger. All of those are solid engines.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not well versed in Europe stuff but Volvo was building respectable things around that time.

Pretty much nobody except Toyota was shipping engines with "shit fails under 100k and you waste the bottom end" failure modes to them in the 80s yet shitbag fanboys show up trying to defend that garbage because shitbag fanboy reasons.

I realize that you seem to deliberately avoid nuance but this is a case where, depending on the year, you are both right. Up u til 1985, the 20r/22r had a double roller timing chain and was pretty much bulletproof. I had a 1980 truck that was a used and neglected and just didn't care. Even at 200k miles, a friend shifted 3-2 instead of 3-4 in it it. As soon as it got traction, it wrapped the tach all the way around and blew the muffler off. The truck still ran great years later.

For some reason in 1985, toyota put a weak single roller chain in with crappy plastic guides. If you didn't change the oil, it made it to 100k or so. If you did, it made 150-200k.

Of course making it to 100k was a big deal in the 80s. Most motors were worn out by 100k, especially carbed motors. They diluted the oil with gas and the half ass emission controls stuck on 10-30 year old designs ran them lean or failed and damaged the motors.

 

[Provience]

Now remove the "timing sets are wear items" and you've described damn near every other 80s 4-banger. None of that shit is remarkable in any way. It's like when OEMs list "adjustable seats" as a feature.


The frequency of having to do invasive shit absolutely is a failure.

I run a fleet known for head gaskets and I do less of them than the 22RE crowd does.

Timing sets are wear items even on domestics It's not even invasive to do.

Never really got the whole head gasket issue.

Ultimately what you're saying is the 22re is just as good as every other 80s 4banger that has stuck around 40 years later. There's a whole host of 80s 4 bangers that aren't here any more because they had all kinds of dumb shit going on with them.

 

[Mikenike]

You complained about push rods being a weak link for a 22re, of course I'm not going to address exactly what you stated and talk about other things.



Timing set every decade or two is too much for you yes, that is a wear item. Just like every bearing and guide and chain and tensioner is a wear item in everything else.

People replace engine over stupid minor stuff all the time because it quicker in their head or they don't know what they are doing. You've never replaced a timing set yet everything you have starts at 150k. Explains a while lot, means you are the dude that replaces a whole engine over a $20 chain or piece of plastic

I have put an engine in exactly one thing. A 94 k1500 because the compression got so low at 180k it wouldn't start after i sold it to my nephew who neglected it and didn't pay for it so i repossessed it with the damage already done. Still hadnt ever needed a timing chain.... Every timing chain run engine/vehicle i have owned i have known most of its life because i get them when the family has used them up for cheap. They never needed timing chains. Ever. I have never done a set of timing chains ever. Timing belts are a consumable/maintenance item. Chains are not and that is some serious stockhome syndrome to think so. The 22re may not be any worse than any other 80s 4 cylinder (it is) but it damn sure isn't any better which still makes it checks notes a huge pile of shit. And none of that changes the fact the 22re pops headgaskets like a soccer mom pops pills and drinks coolant right into the crank case like they would a bottle of wine. Show me on the 6.0 where the headgasket consumable and coolant milkshake became a good thing.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I realize that you seem to deliberately avoid nuance but this is a case where, depending on the year, you are both right.

I was comparing to other 1st gen EFI shit. I should have been more clear about that.

Timing sets are wear items even on domestics It's not even invasive to do.

But it's still something you shouldn't have to do on a non-belt engine. You should be able to let that shit run poorly slopping around for 100k miles while the set you bought "because I should do that" collects dust on the shelf.

Ultimately what you're saying is the 22re is just as good as every other 80s 4banger that has stuck around 40 years later.

That's the mental gymnastics fanboy way of looking at it. The sane way of looking at it is that they're all roughly equal, less specific deficiencies that any of them have of which the 22RE has just about the most no matter how you cut it so why the fuck does everyone think they're not the worst of the bunch?

The only thing they're better than is the Toyota V6s of the era, because unlike everyone else Toyota didn't have a V6 that didn't suck in their catalog around that time to compare to and basically nobody is doing a 4-banger to V6 comparison across brands.

 

[Provience]

I have put an engine in exactly one thing. A 94 k1500 because the compression got so low at 180k it wouldn't start after i sold it to my nephew who neglected it and didn't pay for it so i repossessed it with the damage already done. Still hadnt ever needed a timing chain.... Every timing chain run engine/vehicle i have owned i have known most of its life because i get them when the family has used them up for cheap. They never needed timing chains. Ever. I have never done a set of timing chains ever. Timing belts are a consumable/maintenance item. Chains are not and that is some serious stockhome syndrome to think so. The 22re may not be any worse than any other 80s 4 cylinder (it is) but it damn sure isn't any better which still makes it checks notes a huge pile of shit. And none of that changes the fact the 22re pops headgaskets like a soccer mom pops pills and drinks coolant right into the crank case like they would a bottle of wine. Show me on the 6.0 where the headgasket consumable and coolant milkshake became a good thing.

It costs $40 to fix it in a 22re and $10k+ on a 6.0

Just because you've never done a timing set, doesn't mean you shouldn't. 🤷 you can just replace the tensioner and guide on the 22re if you are feeling cheap. Been there, done that. Hell I've done just the guide before.

So again, you are scared of maintenance. Let me guess, you'd be afraid if you had to flush out a radiator and block as well because the cooling passages accumulated shit over the decades?

 

[Provience]

I was comparing to other 1st gen EFI shit. I should have been more clear about that.


But it's still something you shouldn't have to do on a non-belt engine. You should be able to let that shit run poorly slopping around for 100k miles while the set you bought "because I should do that" collects dust on the shelf.


That's the mental gymnastics fanboy way of looking at it. The sane way of looking at it is that they're all roughly equal, less specific deficiencies that any of them have of which the 22RE has just about the most no matter how you cut it so why the fuck does everyone think they're not the worst of the bunch?

The only thing they're better than is the Toyota V6s of the era, because unlike everyone else Toyota didn't have a V6 that didn't suck in their catalog around that time to compare to and basically nobody is doing a 4-banger to V6 comparison across brands.

Mental gymnastics? No, survivors bias on your end.

You are looking specifically at 4 bangers in what, rangers and s10? There is a whole dang lot of 4 cylinder cars from the 80s that were absolutely piles of shit. They aren't around any more, we don't see them. We only really see the light pickups as having survived and been worth it to people to maintain.

Clearly you don't know how long you can go with the chain making noise because you've never tried. Once you get through the guide and then through the timing cover you need to be cautious about the oil leaking out. It makes plenty of noise getting there, but it isn't something that needs a "right now".

The far more time consuming and complicated timing belt replacement is no big deal, but yall won't maintain a chain

 

[Mikenike]

It costs $40 to fix it in a 22re and $10k+ on a 6.0

Just because you've never done a timing set, doesn't mean you shouldn't. 🤷 you can just replace the tensioner and guide on the 22re if you are feeling cheap. Been there, done that. Hell I've done just the guide before.

So again, you are scared of maintenance. Let me guess, you'd be afraid if you had to flush out a radiator and block as well because the cooling passages accumulated shit over the decades?

Doesn't make it a good design no matter what it costs. I have no problem with maintenance. I just dont consider those to be maintenance items and I am not going to open up a good running engine to potentially create an issue where there are none. If it had a problem i would. 300k on one timing set is just fine because by then the interiors and suspensions are fucked anyway and im done with it. I let them drive thier good running selves to the scrapper and leave them. Perhaps because i have only one life and would rather spend it working on shit i wanna work on. But you waste yours if you want driving junk boo. Let that pride fly. I do consider fluid changes and flushes maintenance. But you are delusional if you think a hg is. Or a timing chain. That is the kind of shit i wanna get paid for if i am doing it for somebody which means it is above and veyod maintenance to me.


Ohh and for the record just because i have never put engines and timing shit in my stuff doesn't mean i cant or am afraid of it. How do you think i got my opinion of the 22re.... from working on them for people perhaps? Pretty sure we aren't going to ever see eye to though so ill leave it there.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Mental gymnastics? No, survivors bias on your end.

We're not even gonna touch the whole "Toyotaa people vs Nissan people" factor here?

You are looking specifically at 4 bangers in what, rangers and s10?

And Honda. And Nissan. And Mazda. And Volvo. And Mitsu/Chrysler, and AMC. And Subaru (though I'm not sure that's a fair comparison because boxor vs I4)

At best the complaints you're gonna get from those families of engines are random tensioners that don't last long on the belt ones and floppy decks that don't like racecar treatment on the open deck ones.

I'm sure there's a couple crap engines in the mix (I'm not very familiar with what Nissan and Mazda were up to around that time) but you don't see people simping them like you do with the 22RE

Pretty much everyone had good solid ~2L 4-bangers around that time. The exceptions are generally "cutting edge" shit like DOHC designs that wound up being not quite right and flops in practice and shit like the 22RE where an otherwise unremarkable design was fitted with some dumb achillies heel.

There is a whole dang lot of 4 cylinder cars from the 80s that were absolutely piles of shit. They aren't around any more, we don't see them. We only really see the light pickups as having survived and been worth it to people to maintain.

They aren't around anymore because the whole cars were built to a price point and fell apart around the engines and even if they didn't they eventually wound up in the hands of some woman or honorary woman who ignored some leak or some shit until it was too late, and that's if the shitty 3spd auto didn't fuck off first. The only shit left from that era is mostly mini trucks, sports cars and the occasional grandma car that stayed well kept long enough to get over the hump.

This is tangental though. If you compare a 22RE to the equivalent GM (to pick one example, nothing against the others) offering the GM wins every day.

The far more time consuming and complicated timing belt replacement is no big deal, but yall won't maintain a chain

Belts are almost always faster and easier than chains assuming the engines are installed in comparable platforms.

 

[Mikenike]

We're not even gonna touch the whole "Toyotaa people vs Nissan people" factor here?


And Honda. And Nissan. And Mazda. And Volvo. And Mitsu/Chrysler, and AMC. And Subaru (though I'm not sure that's a fair comparison because boxor vs I4)

At best the complaints you're gonna get from those families of engines are random tensioners that don't last long on the belt ones and floppy decks that don't like racecar treatment on the open deck ones.

I'm sure there's a couple crap engines in the mix (I'm not very familiar with what Nissan and Mazda were up to around that time) but you don't see people simping them like you do with the 22RE

Pretty much everyone had good solid ~2L 4-bangers around that time. The exceptions are generally "cutting edge" shit like DOHC designs that wound up being not quite right and flops in practice and shit like the 22RE where an otherwise unremarkable design was fitted with some dumb achillies heel.



They aren't around anymore because the whole cars were built to a price point and fell apart around the engines and even if they didn't they eventually wound up in the hands of some woman or honorary woman who ignored some leak or some shit until it was too late, and that's if the shitty 3spd auto didn't fuck off first. The only shit left from that era is mostly mini trucks, sports cars and the occasional grandma car that stayed well kept long enough to get over the hump.

This is tangental though. If you compare a 22RE to the equivalent GM (to pick one example, nothing against the others) offering the GM wins every day.



Belts are almost always faster and easier than chains assuming the engines are installed in comparable platforms.

I solve the timing belt dilemna by not buying shit i have to get elbows deep in the guts of every set # of miles. That said timing belt change over a chain 100%. Since it is a thing meant to be changed it is almost like they.... Design it around it needing doing.🤷

 

[DMG]

We're not even gonna touch the whole "Toyotaa people vs Nissan people" factor here?


And Honda. And Nissan. And Mazda. And Volvo. And Mitsu/Chrysler, and AMC. And Subaru (though I'm not sure that's a fair comparison because boxor vs I4)

At best the complaints you're gonna get from those families of engines are random tensioners that don't last long on the belt ones and floppy decks that don't like racecar treatment on the open deck ones.

I'm sure there's a couple crap engines in the mix (I'm not very familiar with what Nissan and Mazda were up to around that time) but you don't see people simping them like you do with the 22RE

Pretty much everyone had good solid ~2L 4-bangers around that time. The exceptions are generally "cutting edge" shit like DOHC designs that wound up being not quite right and flops in practice and shit like the 22RE where an otherwise unremarkable design was fitted with some dumb achillies heel.



They aren't around anymore because the whole cars were built to a price point and fell apart around the engines and even if they didn't they eventually wound up in the hands of some woman or honorary woman who ignored some leak or some shit until it was too late, and that's if the shitty 3spd auto didn't fuck off first. The only shit left from that era is mostly mini trucks, sports cars and the occasional grandma car that stayed well kept long enough to get over the hump.

This is tangental though. If you compare a 22RE to the equivalent GM (to pick one example, nothing against the others) offering the GM wins every day.



Belts are almost always faster and easier than chains assuming the engines are installed in comparable platforms.

The comparable GM motors in the mid 80s got head gaskets every 50k. If the heads didn't Crack. And 100k was a lot of miles for one, even with perfect maintenance.

Then the V6s. The ford 2.8, gm 2.8, jeep 2.8 (I know), mitsubishi and Isuzu, etc all were crap. Nissan too. The 22r stood out because 80s cars and trucks were generally junk by 100k.

 

[Provience]

Doesn't make it a good design no matter what it costs. I have no problem with maintenance. I just dont consider those to be maintenance items and I am not going to open up a good running engine to potentially create an issue where there are none. If it had a problem i would. 300k on one timing set is just fine because by then the interiors and suspensions are fucked anyway and im done with it. I let them drive thier good running selves to the scrapper and leave them. Perhaps because i have only one life and would rather spend it working on shit i wanna work on. But you waste yours if you want driving junk boo. Let that pride fly. I do consider fluid changes and flushes maintenance. But you are delusional if you think a hg is. Or a timing chain. That is the kind of shit i wanna get paid for if i am doing it for somebody which means it is above and veyod maintenance to me.


Ohh and for the record just because i have never put engines and timing shit in my stuff doesn't mean i cant or am afraid of it. How do you think i got my opinion of the 22re.... from working on them for people perhaps? Pretty sure we aren't going to ever see eye to though so ill leave it there.

You got your opinion from what others say, earlier "I've known people that have owned everything, they put in motors"

It's pretty sad how little engine maintenance people consider doing. Oh well, pay more, get less is the theme of progress.

 

[Provience]

We're not even gonna touch the whole "Toyotaa people vs Nissan people" factor here?


And Honda. And Nissan. And Mazda. And Volvo. And Mitsu/Chrysler, and AMC. And Subaru (though I'm not sure that's a fair comparison because boxor vs I4)

At best the complaints you're gonna get from those families of engines are random tensioners that don't last long on the belt ones and floppy decks that don't like racecar treatment on the open deck ones.

I'm sure there's a couple crap engines in the mix (I'm not very familiar with what Nissan and Mazda were up to around that time) but you don't see people simping them like you do with the 22RE

Pretty much everyone had good solid ~2L 4-bangers around that time. The exceptions are generally "cutting edge" shit like DOHC designs that wound up being not quite right and flops in practice and shit like the 22RE where an otherwise unremarkable design was fitted with some dumb achillies heel.



They aren't around anymore because the whole cars were built to a price point and fell apart around the engines and even if they didn't they eventually wound up in the hands of some woman or honorary woman who ignored some leak or some shit until it was too late, and that's if the shitty 3spd auto didn't fuck off first. The only shit left from that era is mostly mini trucks, sports cars and the occasional grandma car that stayed well kept long enough to get over the hump.

This is tangental though. If you compare a 22RE to the equivalent GM (to pick one example, nothing against the others) offering the GM wins every day.



Belts are almost always faster and easier than chains assuming the engines are installed in comparable platforms.

I solve the timing belt dilemna by not buying shit i have to get elbows deep in the guts of every set # of miles. That said timing belt change over a chain 100%. Since it is a thing meant to be changed it is almost like they.... Design it around it needing doing.🤷

I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither of you have ever done a tensioner and guide for a 22re


It's far easier than the belts and the truth is, people say "timing chain" and its never the chain or gears, its the wear parts.

Elbow deep no car should ever need more than an oil change!!

 

[Mikenike]

You got your opinion from what others say, earlier "I've known people that have owned everything, they put in motors"

It's pretty sad how little engine maintenance people consider doing. Oh well, pay more, get less is the theme of progress.

With all due respect you dont know me but you sure as fuck make alot of assumptions. I got my opinion from putting 3 of them in the same truck over a 4 year period with a buddy in school. And doing god knows how many headgaskets and other stupid repairs to them for other people on weekends. A good designed motor doesn't need gone into that frequently. Not liking doing something doesn't= can't or wont. I do like the 22re on the basis i made alot of money off them over the years.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say neither of you have ever done a tensioner and guide for a 22re


It's far easier than the belts and the truth is, people say "timing chain" and its never the chain or gears, its the wear parts.

Elbow deep no car should ever need more than an oil change!!

I have. It is still a dumb thing. I dont like doing it. I dont like doing belts either so i usually buy shit that doesn't have them. Not liking doing something doesn't = cant or wont. There is a huge difference between more than an oil change every once in awhile or even once a year and needing major work on a bi yearly basis. Like every fan boy your going out of your way to be pedantic and it shows. Like I said. You're not going to be convinced and neither am I. I think we have taken this far enough off the rails.

 

[Provience]

got my opinion from putting 3 of them in the same truck over a 4 year period with a buddy in schoo

Clearly that's a Toyota problem and not a user error problem

 

[Mikenike]

Clearly that's a Toyota problem and not a user error problem

I mean if it had only been the one truck i could agree with you. It wasn't. Also had to put one in my nephews truck. And the guy down the street. And like i said i have done way more headgaskets on one than i ever wanted to do in my life. It might be costly on a 6.0 but i only ever had to do them once because atleast there are decent upgrades for it.