ummm, it literally stands for Assault Rifle.
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
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US Army ditching NATO cartridge?
- Thread starter Sandy Johnson
- Start date
REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
That's going to burn the shit out of barrel throats..277 Fury at 80,000 psi.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
![[486]](https://data.irate4x4.com/avatars/m/0/94.jpg?1700178133){kind=avatar}
[486]
the retard, himself
aczlan
Good Morning!
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
I just wish someone would make decent brass for 6 ARC, that Hornady shit is good for only 3-4 firings.
Sandy Johnson
Harry Member
Triggering people in a gun thread is poetic. Nice work
speed bump
Red Skull Member
Your grandpas generation could handle a garand or an 03 just fine at 5-6 130 lbs and those are heavy by today's standards.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
I've got an AR match on Saturday where we'll shoot out past 700. 77g SMK's or Nosler RDF's are the bullet of choice.
I COULD handle a garand, but I'd rather a much lighter, higher capacity and less punishing AR or AK.
Provience
Kill!
Not just fine, put 10 dudes with garands across the yard from 10 dudes with anything from this century, see whose left standing .
AM radio works just fine as well, why bother with the internet?
gt1guy
Apparently a racist
So they need a new round/rifle that can defeat all the body armor we left behind in Afghanistan?
Also a good thing the Taliban can't use the new ammo in their M4's.
How far out will this new round punch through a Level IV chest plate?
Also a good thing the Taliban can't use the new ammo in their M4's.
How far out will this new round punch through a Level IV chest plate?
clodhopper
Get off my lawn, punk!
Stop with your crap. Varmint cartridge. You sound like an absolute Black Ops douche. Do you say the same thing about a KOH buggy being worth shit cause its time on the Nürburgring is garbage?
Different tools for different jobs. We were fighting in Europe and the garand/m14 was well suited. Not as good in the pacific. Then it was pretty good in Korea. Then it sucked in Vietnam. Research showed most shots were short and light ammo made sense, so 5.56. Then we went to fight the desert. Uhoh, longer shots. Army pulls M14s out of storage and starts working on longer shots from AR system. Meanwhile creating M4 for urban door kicking. Next thing you know, a standard fighting group has a variety of weapons to cover different situations, just like the guys in WW2 figured out.
There is a place for the "varmint cartridge". Do you happen to use the "horse paste" phrase also?
This rifle strikes me (well I hope it doesnt literally
) just like the Air Force continually spending money on the new and better fighter jet that supposedly does everything, but then finds it really doesnt and they still need specialty fighters, but the NEXT gen warplane will be the one!665.0coupe
Red Skull Member
At least they know they will be able to sell service parts when the initial gun orders taper off.
I was looking at the case design thinking I want some in 6BRA/Dahser. The primer pockets would last for ever!!
MigGunslinger
Red Skull Member
You guys think they are going to tell the troops that they no longer need to clean the rifle and then load a bunch of ammo with unsuitable powder and then send conscript soldiers out into the jungle with them?
It seems like between 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 we had a couple of versatile cartridges. Not the best at everything but established and effective.
Seems like they could have done some more fiddling with twist rate and bullet weight on the 5.56 if they wanted a bit more range and they could have come out ahead on this. That or pick a conventional off the shelf cartridge that bridges the gap.
It seems like between 5.56x45 and 7.62x51 we had a couple of versatile cartridges. Not the best at everything but established and effective.
Seems like they could have done some more fiddling with twist rate and bullet weight on the 5.56 if they wanted a bit more range and they could have come out ahead on this. That or pick a conventional off the shelf cartridge that bridges the gap.
FordFascist
Ford Bigot
The Army flirts with a new rifle ammunition every time high-waisted mom jeans are back in fashion.
clodhopper
Get off my lawn, punk!
NOw That is jUst Total Hogwas...... ya know, I think you might have something there. hunh.
plym49.2
Sasquatch49.2
- Joined
- May 20, 2020
- Member Number
- 550
- Messages
- 406
Of course. Lobbyists. Big gigunda gubbamint contracts. A chance for every local PD to lobby for more betterer stuff.
Weasel
Red Skull Member
Yep, unless going with something like the plastic cased ammo. Seems like that would have been a win.
booger
Bad
Follow the money. We replaced the handgun with a Sig why not go ahead and replace the rifles too. Someone's uncle/cousin/brotherin-law gotta cash in on this.
Fnl8t
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2022
- Member Number
- 5071
- Messages
- 10
There are a couple things to look at here between both new platforms and the caliber. I think it all has some merit, although I do not see it becoming standard issue for several reasons. Then again right or wrong we all know politics and industry can change the outcome regardless of reasons.
To start, the Lmg. Seems like a lightweight and adaptable, modern platform. While it may come to be a reasonable replacement for the 249, Im not sure its going to be outright replacing the m240 by any means. Much of our current infantry combat doctrine is based around the 240 and the use of its capability to establish fire superiority. If this new lightweight platform can be proven to take the punishment and put the rounds downrange reliably, then so be it...Combat doctrine can simply adapt to the new, however this remains to be seen. The 240b is one tough, nasty piece of hardware which will likely be relevant for decades, even if this thing is better than sliced bread (it probably isnt)
As far as the rifle goes, it looks to be a great dmr rifle. The m5/spear is based around the mcx/716 which is in turn ar18 derived. The platform is well established, and having some personal experience with both the mcx and 716 I can say its a pretty good higher tier replacement for the typical ar15. It is a bit heavy, but otherwise solid. Therein lies the problem...Much like the Scar (and the other rifles that came from said program), it doesnt necessarily do anything that much better than the current m4, especially for the money. Only soldiers of a higher level are ever going to take advantage of those minute percentages vs those equipped with typical Ar... Soldiers of that caliber tend to be special forces or elite speciality units who have their own budgets and arsenals seperate from rank and file, who can thusly afford the blingier stuff. Besides that, the ar15 is a damn good platform, and cheap at this point. A higher quality Ar can pretty well match anything else out there. All that being said, I think this thing may become a dedicated Dmr. With longer range experiences in recent conflicts, You may see squad composition change to include an extra dmr (or two at times) when range is a factor, but overall i dont see this thing replacing the m4 without having a 5.56 version. Not sure that hot round will do well for long filling in the gaps between the belt swaps and gunners repositioning.
Finally, the caliber. The idea of it is great. If some sort of metalurgy or coating breakthrough were made (cheaply), this concept will be the biggest thing since smokeless. Sadly, in current form you are looking at a barrel burner with some really nice specs on paper. It does offer a bit of efficiency vs the classic 308 we all know and love. Im local to sig and know quite a few people at the plant/academy and involved in these programs. While none of them have outwardly acknowledged these concerns, they are known. In the case of the lmg, you are swapping barrels anyway so not as big a concern. But you arent swapping rifle barrels at field level. This is also what leads me to believe the rifle will be a more dmr specialized rifle. For the price of these things, you are less likely to give one to the typical kid that will rupture the tube on his m4 every other engagement.
To start, the Lmg. Seems like a lightweight and adaptable, modern platform. While it may come to be a reasonable replacement for the 249, Im not sure its going to be outright replacing the m240 by any means. Much of our current infantry combat doctrine is based around the 240 and the use of its capability to establish fire superiority. If this new lightweight platform can be proven to take the punishment and put the rounds downrange reliably, then so be it...Combat doctrine can simply adapt to the new, however this remains to be seen. The 240b is one tough, nasty piece of hardware which will likely be relevant for decades, even if this thing is better than sliced bread (it probably isnt)
As far as the rifle goes, it looks to be a great dmr rifle. The m5/spear is based around the mcx/716 which is in turn ar18 derived. The platform is well established, and having some personal experience with both the mcx and 716 I can say its a pretty good higher tier replacement for the typical ar15. It is a bit heavy, but otherwise solid. Therein lies the problem...Much like the Scar (and the other rifles that came from said program), it doesnt necessarily do anything that much better than the current m4, especially for the money. Only soldiers of a higher level are ever going to take advantage of those minute percentages vs those equipped with typical Ar... Soldiers of that caliber tend to be special forces or elite speciality units who have their own budgets and arsenals seperate from rank and file, who can thusly afford the blingier stuff. Besides that, the ar15 is a damn good platform, and cheap at this point. A higher quality Ar can pretty well match anything else out there. All that being said, I think this thing may become a dedicated Dmr. With longer range experiences in recent conflicts, You may see squad composition change to include an extra dmr (or two at times) when range is a factor, but overall i dont see this thing replacing the m4 without having a 5.56 version. Not sure that hot round will do well for long filling in the gaps between the belt swaps and gunners repositioning.
Finally, the caliber. The idea of it is great. If some sort of metalurgy or coating breakthrough were made (cheaply), this concept will be the biggest thing since smokeless. Sadly, in current form you are looking at a barrel burner with some really nice specs on paper. It does offer a bit of efficiency vs the classic 308 we all know and love. Im local to sig and know quite a few people at the plant/academy and involved in these programs. While none of them have outwardly acknowledged these concerns, they are known. In the case of the lmg, you are swapping barrels anyway so not as big a concern. But you arent swapping rifle barrels at field level. This is also what leads me to believe the rifle will be a more dmr specialized rifle. For the price of these things, you are less likely to give one to the typical kid that will rupture the tube on his m4 every other engagement.
Provience
Kill!
it doesn't look like it is billed to replace the 240, only the 249.
while I thought the 240 was more entertaining, i'll still gladly take a dirt cheap surplus 249 off the governments hands for them once they sell those classic relics to the public like they are supposed to
while I thought the 240 was more entertaining, i'll still gladly take a dirt cheap surplus 249 off the governments hands for them once they sell those classic relics to the public like they are supposed to
[486]
the retard, himself
that shit the same base size as 7.62x39 or 10mm auto?
all these new calibers picking fuckin' stupid base sizes... I know it is so they'll fit into a stanag mag well, but it still disappoints me
Would be nice if one would pick up the 9x19 base size, give the 5.45 guys something to make brass outta
Fnl8t
Member
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2022
- Member Number
- 5071
- Messages
- 10
Yeah I may have misread the propoganda, Thought i had seen at one point that it was going after the 240 as well. Big shoes to fill for sure.
I would take a surplus 249 as well, unfortunately we know the most likely destination for those...anywhere and eveywhere including the smelter but not the hands of american citizens.
I would take a surplus 249 as well, unfortunately we know the most likely destination for those...anywhere and eveywhere including the smelter but not the hands of american citizens.
[486]
the retard, himself
you see they've been chambering the minimi in .308 for a while now?
funny shit
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
It's essentially a 6mm Grendel, who's parent case is .220 Russian. Doesn't everyone have one of those?
Some good Lapua or Starline would go a long ways, and although you can make 6ARC from 6.5 Grendel, it's another step and is in short supply anyway. It's going to be a safe queen after I shoot up the last of my loaded ARC, until I can get some good brass. At 1k with 105 Hybrids, the drop is 9.9 mils, and my 142g SMK in 6.5CM is 9.1, pretty impressive for a 22" barreled semi-auto IMO vs a 25" bolt gun.
Aisin
Grumpy old fuck
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 304
- Messages
- 2,381
Horse paste? I didn’t partake in any of that faggotry.Stop with your crap. Varmint cartridge. You sound like an absolute Black Ops douche. Do you say the same thing about a KOH buggy being worth shit cause its time on the Nürburgring is garbage?
Different tools for different jobs. We were fighting in Europe and the garand/m14 was well suited. Not as good in the pacific. Then it was pretty good in Korea. Then it sucked in Vietnam. Research showed most shots were short and light ammo made sense, so 5.56. Then we went to fight the desert. Uhoh, longer shots. Army pulls M14s out of storage and starts working on longer shots from AR system. Meanwhile creating M4 for urban door kicking. Next thing you know, a standard fighting group has a variety of weapons to cover different situations, just like the guys in WW2 figured out.
There is a place for the "varmint cartridge". Do you happen to use the "horse paste" phrase also?
This rifle strikes me (well I hope it doesnt literally
[486]
the retard, himself
well, that's parent case is the 7.62x39 so...It's essentially a 6mm Grendel, who's parent case is .220 Russian. Doesn't everyone have one of those?
Kinda like all the shit that shares base size with the '06 nobody cares what obscure fudd cartridge is at the bottom of that family tree
Been thinking about a 6.5 cm in an ar10. Then I remember that I can't even shoot good enough to wring out the capabilities of .223 loaded with longer pills so what's the point? lol
Provience
Kill!
i'm sorry Sir, if you want a point, you'll need to go way the fuck somewhere else. Self serving is the only point allowed here.
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
Doh! I had it basakwards, I though the .220 came first.
I had a hard-on for a SP10 from Seekins in 6.5CM, but I don't really have a use for it. In PRS that big old bolt slamming back and forth makes it hard to keep the reticle on target, but I did want something that shot a heavier/higher BC bullet and when ARC came out I jumped.