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US Army ditching NATO cartridge?

Sandy Johnson

Sandy Johnson

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Apologies if this is a big ol R, but with all the nato flag waving and leg humping, this was interesting:

Army Picks Its Replacement for the M4 and SAW
The Army has found its replacements for the M4 rifle and M249 Squad Automatic Weapon, handing out a contract to put new guns in the hands of tens of thousands of soldiers.

The force is awarding a 10-year, $20.4 million contract to Sig Sauer for the XM5 Rifle, which will become the new standard rifle for soldiers, and the XM250 Automatic Rifle, which will replace the SAW.

The service will also switch from 5.56mm ammo to 6.8mm, after a search for rounds better built to penetrate body armor.

"Both weapons fire common 6.8 millimeter ammunition utilizing government provided projectiles and vendor-designed cartridges," an Army spokesperson said in a press release. "The new ammunition includes multiple types of tactical and training rounds that increase accuracy and are more lethal against emerging threats than both the 5.56mm and 7.62mm ammunition."


The news comes after a 27-month evaluation process in which other defense contractors, including General Dynamics, competed to be the Army's go-to small arms dealer.

The weapons will include the XM157 Fire Control optic, which includes a laser range finder, ballistic calculator, visible and infrared lasers, and a compass. That optic is made by Vortex Optics.

It's unclear how many weapons the Army aims to buy over the decade, or how quickly soldiers will totally ditch the decades-old SAW and rifle. In its proposed 2023 budget, the force is requesting 29,046 new weapons. But that budget still needs to be approved by Congress.
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What is the gain by going to the XM5? Looks very similar to the AR style rifle which already can be chambered for the 6.8. Seems strange to swap to a sole sourced rifle manufacturer for something that is essentially what you already have.

Dunno nuthin about the SAW to know if the XM250 is worth it.
 
Aisin said:
The Army has a habit of getting halfway through ammo trials and bailing. 5.56 isn’t going anywhere anytime soon.
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That and the US has a history of mandating a cartridge for NATO use and just about the time all the NATO countries get outfitted, we swap to some other cartridge and middle finger the complainers.
 
Are they even manufactured here? With the recent lessons on supply chain bed-shits you would think having our military's weapons made at home would be a little important.
 
Seem to be iterating back around to the .280 British chambered FN FAL initially developed for NATO.

 
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Uh oh, the criminals will just push a button or drill two holes and have brand new evil weapons.
 
clodhopper said:
What is the gain by going to the XM5? Looks very similar to the AR style rifle which already can be chambered for the 6.8. Seems strange to swap to a sole sourced rifle manufacturer for something that is essentially what you already have.

Dunno nuthin about the SAW to know if the XM250 is worth it.
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Welfare for the rich. Someone's buddy needs some .gov money.
 
clodhopper said:
What is the gain by going to the XM5? Looks very similar to the AR style rifle which already can be chambered for the 6.8. Seems strange to swap to a sole sourced rifle manufacturer for something that is essentially what you already have.

Dunno nuthin about the SAW to know if the XM250 is worth it.
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google you up ".277 sig fury"

its got a wierdass steel case head for ridic chamber pressures
all because everyone wants the velocity of a 20" barrel from a 'badass looking' 11.5"
 
IEATRKS84 said:
This is the army attempting to switch over to 6.8 caseless. Its probably not going anywhere as theyve been trying for a long time.
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nope, it isn't even polymer cased if I'm thinking about the right cartridge
 
Tinstar said:
Less. They will dump ammo and guns into the ocean.
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That kind of shit is exactly my first thought, and while that’s infuriating.

Federal has a contract to supply the armed forces with “high performance” nato ammo. How do they handle that situation? They’re already tooled up and mfg it. Millions of civilians are waiting in line to buy it. So wouldn’t they just keep cranking it out and sell it to us?
 
[486] said:
google you up ".277 sig fury"

its got a wierdass steel case head for ridic chamber pressures
all because everyone wants the velocity of a 20" barrel from a 'badass looking' 11.5"
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it's a interesting cartridge. Runs at 80k PSI, has a hybrid case with steel case heads and brass case bodies.

On paper the ballistics are nothing that aren't already available with other cartridges, but this is packing those ballistics in a smaller package.
 
Military arms channel has done a couple videos about it in the last week or so.
 
I was issued a M14 in basic training....7.62 and the range sargent said they were 180 grain..The rifles had a noticable kick and some guys got bruised shoulders after firing off a few hundred rounds....We were allowed some bursts in full auto...
With these new weapons is any consideration given to reduce the kick back.?
 
Pretty cool. I did some searching and messed up on the numbers. Found this. I likes.

20162780-E5B8-4CEE-9782-F49A68C5C98A.jpeg
 

MCX-SPEAR​

First Production Run Special Edition
Now Available at Select Dealers
MSRP: $7999.00
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The civilian version :laughing: Hopefully after "first run" prices will come down and with time modular parts kits will become more available..

www.sigsauer.com

MCX-SPEAR

First Production Run Special Edition Now Available at Select Dealers MSRP: $7999.00
www.sigsauer.com www.sigsauer.com
 
Truckedup said:
I was issued a M14 in basic training....7.62 and the range sargent said they were 180 grain..The rifles had a noticable kick and some guys got bruised shoulders after firing off a few hundred rounds....We were allowed some bursts in full auto...
With these new weapons is any consideration given to reduce the kick back.?
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6.8 has the same recoil as 5.56.
 
[486] said:
google you up ".277 sig fury"

its got a wierdass steel case head for ridic chamber pressures
all because everyone wants the velocity of a 20" barrel from a 'badass looking' 11.5"
Click to expand...
no, the idea is to get everybody running muffled.

a la the 3M "if you've got hearing loss, call us NOW for a CASH settlement!"
 
How much is this going to cost? How about spending the money for more range time? Should cost less.
 
cj3a said:
How much is this going to cost? How about spending the money for more range time? Should cost less.
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My thought too. maybe for small group heavy hitters, sure. Across the board? Scratchin my head on it.

We currently use a format that is easily produced by a wide variety of suppliers right here in the US. The gun tech in the Sig is cool, but worth swapping all us forces to rely on a single manufacturer? Sig has US arm of the company but I dont know how much they manufacture here in the US.

Is the reason just for better body armor penetration?
 
clodhopper said:
17594_0.jpg
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interesting
seismic has a design that can be reloaded with special dies that eject the case from the sizing die with a spring loaded pin in the center (like a decapping pin)

those look like they just decided "nah there ain't no reloading these" although I'm sure someone will come out with a collet type sizing die, sorta like the lee factory crimp dies
 
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