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Tourist submarine exploring Titanic wreckage disappears in Atlantic Ocean

animator said:
Why don’t they just come up with a liquid that people can “breathe” so that they can go down to those depths without needing such a strong pressure vessel? Seems like that would be easier/safer than trying all these exotic materials that don’t work that well to begin with.
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They have already done that. Using animals in labs.

Two big problems came out of it.

First was the simple fact that a liquid is VERY hard to breath in and out. Normal air breathing animals are not designed to move something that dense.

Second was that all the animals had pneumonia after the tests.

Third. And this is just my thought. Breathing liquid is so not normal that you'd be flipping the fuck out the whole time. At least I'm pretty sure I would be.:flipoff2:

Even breathing gas that's at a high pressure gets tough.

I've been to 980' and I can tell you first hand that it sucks. For many reasons. Just at that depth you have 650ish psi coming down for your breathing gas, to get you 200psi at the hat. Even then you have to concentrate on breathing. If you over exert yourself, it's very, very, very, hard to catch your breath. Usually you'll have to go back to the bell where you can take off the hat and catch your breath.............then get called a pussy so you put the hat on and go back to work.

You can notice the difference in breathing starting around 250-300 feet.
 
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gt1guy said:
At bottom at the Titanic wreck you're at a pressure of 5340psi. If you had 6000psi HP bottles to fill emergency lift bags, you only have 660 usable psi before the bottle was empty. It would take a lot HP bottles to work, but it would be technically possible.
The weight of all those bottles creates it's own set of issues to be delt with.

A good friend of mine's dad was part of the Trieste dives. Very cool guy and some interesting stories about it.

*When the plexiglass view port started to fail on the shallower dives, they went to lexan. Which was one of the earliest uses of the material.

*The sphere was measured after the last dive to the bottom. It was actually smaller by a small amount.

*They determined where to launch the sub by tossing explosives over the side of the mother ship and timed the return of the sound.

Mr. Rechnitzer ( friend dad) was supposed to go on the dive to the bottom. But Paccard wanted his son to have the glory so my buddies dad got bumped. He said Paccard was an asshole, hated him for years. Buddies dad did make the dive down past 20k feet.

11/16/59
1526643330808.jpg


Left to Right: Lieutenant Larry Shumaker, Assistant Officer in Charge; Lieutenant Donald Walsh, Officer in Charge; Dr. Andreas B. Rechnitzer, Scientist in Charge; Jacques Piccard, Co-Designer and Technical Advisor of Bathyscaphe Trieste.


NMUSN-4638.jpg


Bathyscaph Trieste, 1960. Lieutenant Don Walsh, right, and Dr. A.B. Rechnitzer, possibly during testing by the Naval Electronics Laboratory in San Diego, California.


I can actually remember seeing the Trieste in Point Loma. My dad also worked at the Naval electronics Labatory.
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I remember reading about that dive while in Elementary school, and the whole thing just fascinated me and made me wonder why it had been 15 or more years since the dive and they never went back. Then I discovered it was all a ruse and Stanley Kubrick fabricated the whole thing on a Hollywood stage.

Thanks for sharing that.
 
gt1guy said:
They have already done that. Using animals in labs.

Two big problems came out of it.

First was the simple fact that a liquid is VERY hard to breath in and out. Normal air breathing animals are not designed to move something that dense.

Second was that all the animals had pneumonia after the tests.

Third. And this is just my thought. Breathing liquid is so not normal that you'd be flipping the fuck out the whole time. At least I'm pretty sure I would be.:flipoff2:

Even breathing gas that's at a high pressure gets tough.

I've been to 980' and I can tell you first hand that it sucks. For many reasons. Just at that depth you have 650ish psi coming down for your breathing gas, to get you 200psi at the hat. Even then you have to concentrate on breathing. If you over exert yourself, it's very, very, very, hard to catch your breath. Usually you'll have to go back to the bell where you can take off the hat and catch your breath.............then get called a pussy so you put the hat on and go back to work.

You can notice the difference in breathing starting around 250-300 feet.
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Screenshot_2023-07-10-16-37-28-18_3aea4af51f236e4932235fdada7d1643.jpg
 
gt1guy said:
Correct, for a very specific reason. Tubes don't work at those depths.


Lets all not forget what PSI truly means. Pounds PER square inch. A hatch that is 30sq/in with 5 psi on one side does not have 5lbs pushing on it. It is seeing 150 pounds of force.

I know most of you already know this, some may not. But it may enlighten a few to the actual forces this sub was under. The term fuck ton is almost a understatement.
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I tried explaining that rational in one of the compressor explosion threads, every single person called me a fucking moron.


Vindicated ya ****s!
 
gt1guy said:
I know movie, but if that was me, all I'd be thinking was I'm about to die and would violently try to stop that from happening.
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I get what you are saying on how hard it would be to breathe liquids. Funny thing is the breathing liquid in teh Abyss was thick like corn syrup. I think the justification in the movie was the liquid was super oxygenated or something so you didnt need to breath much. Not like movies need to adhere to physical laws or anything.
 
gt1guy said:
...

Even breathing gas that's at a high pressure gets tough.

...
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Perhaps we can come up with a way to somehow speed up evolution and evolve a gill-like structure to help facilitate easier breathing under water. Perhaps they could form behind the ears or somewhere inconspicuous while still allowing adequate flow while under water.
 
not sure if this has been posted but supposedly it is a transcript of comms, and it talks about the aft section of the sub. I remember some discussion early on about the decent rate being very fast for the "normal " time line of decent. This seem to fit into that discussion.


 
aczlan said:
Makes sense. Ballast to be very slightly negative and you also aren't straining the crane/hoist as much as lifting the whole weight would?
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Correct. Also when you're talking about stuff that weights thousands of tons there's really no practical hoisting system.

aczlan said:
If the leaked transcript is accurate, they may have had a water leak (possibly into the "equipment" section?), it said they they were going down significantly faster than normal (based on timestamps/depths), kept going down when they dropped the weights/frame, A power bus was shorting out.

Would going down at a higher than normal rate of speed make hull degradation worse?

Aaron Z
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I have trouble believing the the transcript is anything but BS. Is if difficult to imagine a leak that does not increase in rate with increased depth unless the external vessel fully flooded early on, in which case one would expect it would trip and alarm and/or cause loss of function. Further, any significantly increased decent speed should be noticeable if they had any even remote sense of situational awareness. Also, it appears well documented that the implosion happened ~1;45 into a ~2 hr decent, and at the time they had not yet bottomed. This cannot be true if the decent rate was much faster than normal. Further, flooding in an external vessel aft would cause a change in trim, which should have been noticeable.

That being said, no reason it would impact hull strength. You have to decent at a very high rate for the rate of change to have any noticeable impact.


aczlan said:
Obviously, deeper is worse, but would increasing pressure faster than normal (ie: making a 4 hour descent in 2.5 hours) be significantly worse as well?

How much excess flotation would it have without ballast?
Could going down too fast have been caused by not calculating the weight of the passengers/gear correctly?
Obviously if it kept going down (or just went to neutral) once they dropped the frame, there was more than just a miscalculation in ballast, but could they have had too much ballast because of passenger/gear weight which then caused them to sink too fast, didn't give the pressure vessels time to acclimate and sprung a leak in something which caused them to sink even faster?

Aaron Z
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Certainly possible they did not trim correctly, though that's submarine 101 and difficult to imagine they wouldn't have done so. Would also be readily apparent they were sinking faster than expected. For trim to be far enough off that dropping ballast didn't restore buoyancy they'd have had to be really really badly off. Perhaps to the point it would be physically possible short of someone bringing a suitcase full of lead accidentally.

Beyond that, rate of decent doesn't matter to the pressure vessel (within reason). Only way this scenario would lead to implosion is if the vessel is sinking fast enough to hit the bottom and cause enough local stress/damage to initiate collapse. That would have to be a considerable rate of decent, and bottom if fairly muddy so would also likely have to land on wreckage or similar.

Bottom line, not at all unlikely they get stuck on the bottom - having a problem elsewhere in the dive and then an unrelated spontaneous collapse of the hull is horribly unlikely.
 
clodhopper said:
I get what you are saying on how hard it would be to breathe liquids. Funny thing is the breathing liquid in teh Abyss was thick like corn syrup. I think the justification in the movie was the liquid was super oxygenated or something so you didnt need to breath much. Not like movies need to adhere to physical laws or anything.
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There's one glaring problem with that that the movie folks didn't think about.

Oxygen is not our trigger for breathing, CO2 is. So in reality, even with a lung full of super oxygenated fluid, your breathing rate would not change due to the need to off gas the built up CO2 in the lungs. Now you're back to trying to move lung fulls of corn syrup in and out.
 
This article says that the sub lost electronics and power, so it lawn darted nose down into the abyss...

So the people in it were all tossed together towards the window in complete blackness when the sub nosed down.... and it took about 45 seconds to a minute while they screamed in terror before it popped and killed them from descending too quickly.

Had to be even worse if someone took a shit in that toilet.

Thats some horrifying shit.

Titanic sub victims aware of fate for a minute before implosion Titanic sub victims aware of fate for a minute before implosion
 
Kurtuleas said:
This article says that the sub lost electronics and power, so it lawn darted nose down into the abyss...

So the people in it were all tossed together towards the window in complete blackness when the sub nosed down.... and it took about 45 seconds to a minute while they screamed in terror before it popped and killed them from descending too quickly.

Had to be even worse if someone took a shit in that toilet.

Thats some horrifying shit.

Titanic sub victims aware of fate for a minute before implosion Titanic sub victims aware of fate for a minute before implosion
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that guy hasn't a clue what happened.
not a chance it descended that fast.
and he is over dramatic with his wording.

He estimated that the sub began freefalling at a depth of around 5,600 feet and fell 'as if it were a stone and without any control' for about 3,000 feet until at around 8,600 feet it 'popped like a balloon' due to the rapidly changing pressure.
 
WLDWUN said:
that guy hasn't a clue what happened.

He estimated that the sub began freefalling at a depth of around 5,600 feet and fell 'as if it were a stone and without any control' for about 3,000 feet until at around 8,600 feet it 'popped like a balloon' due to the rapidly changing pressure.
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Was just going to post that:
Screenshot_20230711-124338-383.png


Interesting picture from that story, looks like another CF tube?
72536919-12272101-A_view_of_OceanGate_equipment_within_the_boatyard_at_the_Port_of-a-15_168866...jpg



Aaron Z
 
So have they shown where the fail happened yet? It has to be where the ring was glued in.
 
bunk said:
So have they shown where the fail happened yet? It has to be where the ring was glued in.
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If you watch the video ExWrench posted, it could have been buckling of the CF structure. Without some forensic analysis it's all just speculation.

Is this incident under Canadian overwatch or US CC?
 
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