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Splib said:
What is go Galt ?? - thanks
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Read Atlas Shrugged.

It's withdrawing your active, productive support from society. Don't buy an iPhone, and cable, and a mortgage, because that supports the system as it is.

It's the idea that if all the engines that move the world refused, things would change. Imagine if Bezos, Gates, and their friends walked away.
 
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woods said:
100%. And while we're at it, folks that don't have kids don't have to pay that portion of the tax bill to support school systems.
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And folks WITH kids that don't want to send them to public indoc centers also don't have to pay portion of the tax bill, too. Right? Awww, yeah.
Home school or private school, here we come.
 
subybaja said:
Read Atlas Shrugged.

It's withdrawing your active, productive support from society. Don't buy an iPhone, and cable, and a mortgage, because that supports the system as it is.

It's the idea that if all the engines that move the world refused, things would change. Imagine if Bezos, Gates, and their friends walked away.
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Except, bezos and gates are pretty much corporate welfare recipients, more along the lines of the self made men, the guy that owns 15 semis in some high tax shit hole is getting squeezed by the local govt again. He decided to retire. Or maybe he shuts down, and takes his favorite truck and goes to Wyoming and buys 15 acres of paradise and delivers gravel 20 hours a week, fishing and hunting the rest.

Back in the shit hole, 14 guys are unemployed and on welfare crying to the govt that somebody should do something. Who's gonna pay that guys share of the income taxes, who's gonna pay his share of the registration on those trucks, taxes on the 700k house.

Not his fucking problem, he put himself in a lower tax bracket and keeps what's his. If his wife throws a fit because she wants to live in a 700k house, she can have it, he's gone
 
Blockchain voting system.

OPs idea isn't racist, it's discrimination.


And the guy that said woman are net losses, you are a really big dumb fucking idiot. You wouldn't exist with women. Your father should have jacked you onto the wall.
 
woods said:
100%. And while we're at it, folks that don't have kids don't have to pay that portion of the tax bill to support school systems.
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What about people who have their kids in private school?
 
BarfBag said:
What about people who have their kids in private school?
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Eh, you're not using the facilities, you shouldn't have to pay for it. I only say that because I paid school taxes for years while everyone around me renting shipped their multiple kids to school on my tax dime.

Only argument I can see there is if the private closes up, the parents have a financial mishap, and the kiddo needs to go to public.
 
You have to be white.
You have to pay taxes.
Served (any color) disabled get a pass.
You have to be over 35.
You have to own a firearm.
You have to be a citizen.
You have to be straight.

I think we're on to something here:flipoff2:
 
subybaja said:
Read Atlas Shrugged.
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Missed that one in my more formative years. Read the Monkey Wrench Gang and Desert Solitaire by Abbey. I probably though it was SciFi so I passed it up . ..:confused:
 
bigun said:
Have you read the book or just watched the horriable movie thay made out of it?

The reasoning was quite interesting.
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It is on my list to read. So not yet.
 
CITIZENSHIP and a proper ID, thats it... 'Murica' baby












.
 
Splib said:
Missed that one in my more formative years. Read the Monkey Wrench Gang and Desert Solitaire by Abbey. I probably though it was SciFi so I passed it up . ..:confused:
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I have a friend who can quote Atlas Shrugged darn near line for line! I've tried to read it 5 or 6 times over the years and have never been able to get past a certain point before I have to put it down and go find something else to do.

Thought Abbey was the best when I was a kid, after I grew up a little, I could still love the Monkey Wrench game for the humor, but not the message, of it's okay to destroy someones lively hood if you think your cause is good. We see that in the distruction going on today
 
Let me throw this into the mix
in the 80s William W Johnstone wrote a seires called "Out of the Ashes" a post world war distopean where a bunch of people of like minds gather together to start their own country.

http://www.oocities.org/tristatescoalition/tsc-manifesto.html


Excerpted from: "FROM THE ASHES: AMERICA REBORN"
By William W. Johnstone

tsc-ban.gif


AS ADVOCATES AND SUPPORTERS OF THE TRI-STATE PHILOSOPHY, WE BELIEVE:

THAT FREEDOM, LIKE RESPECT, IS EARNED AND MUST BE CONSTANTLY NURTURED AND PROTECTED FROM THOSE WHO WOULD TAKE IT AWAY.

IN THE RIGHT OF EVERY LAW-ABIDING CITIZEN TO PROTECT HIS OR HER LIFE, LIBERTY, AND PERSONAL PROPERTY BY ANY MEANS AT HAND WITHOUT FEAR OF ARREST, CRIMINAL PROSECUTION, OR LAWSUIT. THE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS IS CENTRAL TO MAINTAINING TRUE PERSONAL FREEDOM.

THAT LIBERAL POLITICIANS, THEORISTS, AND SOCIALISTS ARE THE GREATEST THREAT TO FREEDOM LOVING AMERICANS AND THAT THEIR MISGUIDED EFFORTS HAVE CAUSED GRAVE INJUSTICES IN THE FIELDS OF CRIMINAL LAW, EDUCATION, AND PUBLIC WELFARE:

THEREFORE IN RESPECT TO CRIMINAL LAW:

AN EFFECTIVE CRIMINAL JUSTICE SYSTEM SHOULD BE GUIDED BY THESE BASIC TENETS:

-OUR COURTS SHOULD STOP PAMPERING CRIMINALS.

-THE PUNISHMENT MUST FIT THE CRIME.

-JUSTICE MUST BE FAIR BUT ALSO BE SWIFT AND, IF NECESSARY, HARSH.

-THERE IS NO PERFECT SOCIETY ONLY A FAIR ONE.

THEREFORE IN RESPECT TO EDUCATION:

EDUCATION IS THE KEY TO SOLVING PROBLEMS IN THE SOCIETY AND THE LACK OF IT IS THE ROOT CAUSE OF AMERICA'S DECLINE.

AN EFFECTIVE SYSTEM OF EDUCATION:

-MUST STRESS HARD DISCIPLINE ALONG WITH THE ARTS, SCIENCES, FINE MUSIC, AND BASIC SKILLS IN READING, WRITING, AND MATHEMATICS.

-MUST TEACH FAIRNESS AND RESPECT.

-MUST TEACH MORALS, THE DIGNITY OF LABOR, AND THE VALUE OF FAMILY.

THEREFORE IN RESPECT TO WELFARE:

WELFARE (WE PREFER WORKFARE) IS RESERVED ONLY FOR THE EDERLY, INFIRM, AND THOSE WHO NEED TEMPORARY HELPING HAND AND THE WELFARE SYSTEM MUST ALSO:

-INSTILL THE CONCEPT OF HONEST WORK FOR HONEST PAY.

-INSTILL THE CONCEPT THAT EVERYONE WHO CAN WORK MUST WORK AND BE FORCED TO WORK IF NECESSARY.

-INSTILL THE CONCEPT THAT THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH AND THAT BEING PRODUCTIVE CITIZENS IN A FREE SOCIETY IS THE ONLY HONORABLE PATH TO TAKE.

THAT RACIAL PREJUDICE AND BIGOTRY ARE INTOLERABLE IN A FREE AND VITAL SOCIETY

-NO ONE IS WORTHY OF RESPECT SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE COLOR OF THEIR SKIN.

-RESPECT IS EARNED BY ACTIONS AND BY DEEDS, NOT BY BIRTHRIGHT.

-THERE ARE ONLY TWO TYPES OF PEOPLE ON EARTH, DECENT AND INDECENT. THOSE WHO ARE DECENT WILL FLORISH, THOSE WHO ARE NOT WILL PERISH.

-NO LAWS LAID DOWN BY A BODY OF GOVERNMENT CAN MAKE ONE PERSON LIKE ANOTHER.

A FREE AND JUST SOCIETY MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS EVEN IF IT MEANS SHEDDING THE BLOOD OF ITS CITIZENS. THE WILLINGNESS OF CITIZENS TO LAY DOWN THEIR LIVES FOR THE BELIEF IN FREEDOM IS A CORNERSTONE OF TRUE DEMOCRACY; WITHOUT THAT WILLINGNESS THE STRUCTURE OS SOCIETY WILL SURELY CRUMBLE AND FALL INTO THE ASHES OF HISTORY.

THEREFORE:

-ALONG WITH THE INALIENABLE RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS, AND THE INALIENABLE RIGHT TO PERSONAL PROTECTION, A STRONG SKILLED, AND WELL-EQUIPPED MILITARY IS ESSENTIAL TO MAINTAINING A FREE SOCIETY.

-A STRONG MILITARY ELIMINATES THE NEED FOR "ALLIES," ALLOWING THE SOCIETY TO FOCUS ON THE NEEDS OF ITS CITIZENS.

-THE BUSINESS OF CITIZENS IS NOT THE BUSINESS OF THE WORLD UNLESS THE RIGHTS OF CITIZENS ARE INFRINGED UPON BY OUTSIDE FORCES.

-THE DUTY OF THOSE WHO LIVE IN A FREE SOCIETY IS CLEAR, PERSONAL FREEDOM IS NOT NEGOTIABLE.

IN CONCLUSION:

WE WHO SUPPORT THE TRI-STATE PHILOSOPHY AND LIVE BY ITS CODE AND ITS LAWS PLEDGE TO DEFEND IT BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. WE PLEDGE TO WORK FAIRLY ANDJUSTLY TO BUILD AND MAINTAIN A SOCIETY IN WHICH ALL CITIZENS ARE TRULY FREE AND ARE ABLE TO PURSUE PRODUCTIVE LIVES WITHOUT FEAR AND WITHOUT INTERVENTION.
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Needless to say what is left of the federal government can't leave them alone espcially when they show they have no crime, everyone carries guns and they are all willing to fight for their cause
 
Slammed&cammed said:
How about we take things back a bit and only property owners can vote? Those with mortgages in good standing would also be eligible... I think this would more truthfully reflect the leanings of the USA. No matter how much or how little you own or are legitimately purchasing, you get one vote. Just sayin'
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The original reasoning behind having only property owners vote, was that only property owners paid taxes. The idea being that if you don't have "skin in the game" you shouldn't have a vote; it was a smart design as it prevented the "welfare state" and nanny politicians getting elected based on promises of unearned benefits being handed out (buying votes with the promise of food-stamps, welfare, Obama phones, etc...).

I do like the basic concept of service to become a "citizen," however I do not believe it would necessarily have to be military service; just spend two years in some form service to the country. There could be the normal military services, and also a myriad of other services that operate similarly (e.g. a "basic training" followed by a "tech-school" followed by being assigned to a "unit"). As an example, there could be an "Infrastructure Service" where you are taught how to build and repair roads, bridges, airports, etc...; there could be a "Medical Service" where you are taught basic medicine (First Aid, "Field Medic" level stuff), or hospital administration; there could even be "Sanitation Service" where you are taught how to work at water treatment and waste management facilities. All of the services would have a minimum 2 years + additional years depending on the "specialty" you signed up for; all of the services would have a "G.I. Bill" type education assistance program for anyone continuing their education after service. Honorable discharge at the end of your service makes you a citizen, eligible to vote (with an additional restriction, explained below) and be elected to public office (same restriction). Additionally all services would provide the opportunity for a career in said service.

Once a citizen, the privilege of voting requires that you not be on any form of welfare (disability and/or retirement benefits are NOT welfare); instead of a Net Income Tax Greater than Zero system. Such a citizen would be "a citizen in honorable standing." There would also need to be a minimum time period for eligibility (no "going off" of welfare a month or two before election, then getting back on); probably 18-24 months of not being on welfare. The income tax system would also need to have limitations placed on it so that nobody could get more in a "tax return" than what they paid in (e.g. EIC); if after all of the deductions and subsidies you have a "negative" tax bill; you simply have a zero tax bill. In this way a person could still have the privilege of voting without necessarily having paid taxes, so long as they didn't receive any welfare. This eliminates the idea of a "poor-tax" while still preventing moochers from voting for politicians that are seeking to buy their votes from the public coffers.

The wording of a Constitution laying out such a system would need to be careful to distinguish between rights and privileges. Every person ("citizen" or not) has the right to bear arms, to protect oneself and their property, every person has the right to assemble peacefully, the right to choose their religion, etc. RIGHTS are not granted by the Constitution or the Government but rather "God Given" and protected by the Constitution from the Government; the Constitution may never be modified to diminish or remove a right. Privileges are granted to "citizens in honorable standing": the privilege to vote; the privilege to be elected to public office, etc...


Just my hallucination of a system that would prevent a future version of the Democratic-Socialist-Communist-Marxist party, promising riches to the poor at the expense of the Tax-Payers.
 
MChat said:
The original reasoning behind having only property owners vote, was that only property owners paid taxes. The idea being that if you don't have "skin in the game" you shouldn't have a vote; it was a smart design as it prevented the "welfare state" and nanny politicians getting elected based on promises of unearned benefits being handed out (buying votes with the promise of food-stamps, welfare, Obama phones, etc...).

I do like the basic concept of service to become a "citizen," however I do not believe it would necessarily have to be military service; just spend two years in some form service to the country. There could be the normal military services, and also a myriad of other services that operate similarly (e.g. a "basic training" followed by a "tech-school" followed by being assigned to a "unit"). As an example, there could be an "Infrastructure Service" where you are taught how to build and repair roads, bridges, airports, etc...; there could be a "Medical Service" where you are taught basic medicine (First Aid, "Field Medic" level stuff), or hospital administration; there could even be "Sanitation Service" where you are taught how to work at water treatment and waste management facilities. All of the services would have a minimum 2 years + additional years depending on the "specialty" you signed up for; all of the services would have a "G.I. Bill" type education assistance program for anyone continuing their education after service. Honorable discharge at the end of your service makes you a citizen, eligible to vote (with an additional restriction, explained below) and be elected to public office (same restriction). Additionally all services would provide the opportunity for a career in said service.

Once a citizen, the privilege of voting requires that you not be on any form of welfare (disability and/or retirement benefits are NOT welfare); instead of a Net Income Tax Greater than Zero system. Such a citizen would be "a citizen in honorable standing." There would also need to be a minimum time period for eligibility (no "going off" of welfare a month or two before election, then getting back on); probably 18-24 months of not being on welfare. The income tax system would also need to have limitations placed on it so that nobody could get more in a "tax return" than what they paid in (e.g. EIC); if after all of the deductions and subsidies you have a "negative" tax bill; you simply have a zero tax bill. In this way a person could still have the privilege of voting without necessarily having paid taxes, so long as they didn't receive any welfare. This eliminates the idea of a "poor-tax" while still preventing moochers from voting for politicians that are seeking to buy their votes from the public coffers.

The wording of a Constitution laying out such a system would need to be careful to distinguish between rights and privileges. Every person ("citizen" or not) has the right to bear arms, to protect oneself and their property, every person has the right to assemble peacefully, the right to choose their religion, etc. RIGHTS are not granted by the Constitution or the Government but rather "God Given" and protected by the Constitution from the Government; the Constitution may never be modified to diminish or remove a right. Privileges are granted to "citizens in honorable standing": the privilege to vote; the privilege to be elected to public office, etc...


Just my hallucination of a system that would prevent a future version of the Democratic-Socialist-Communist-Marxist party, promising riches to the poor at the expense of the Tax-Payers.
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I'm a veteran, am wholey against the Democrat socialist agenda, and think everyone should be a net contributor. Your post sounds like straight up communism with the right to vote.
 
Ted_Kaczynski said:
I'm a veteran, am wholey against the Democrat socialist agenda, and think everyone should be a net contributor. Your post sounds like straight up communism with the right to vote.
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I see how you might think that. However bear in mind that the service is still voluntary (nobody has to become a "citizen"), non-citizens still have the rights guaranteed by the Bill of Rights, non-citizens can get any job they qualify for, can get into any college they qualify for. The main difference in what we have now vs what I proposed is that only those who have served their country in some capacity (with an honorable discharge) have the right to vote and hold public office. Everyone (citizen and non) still has the opportunity to own their own businesses, get education, get jobs, have careers, own homes, own whatever material things they can afford, climb to the top of the corporate ladders, make as much or little money as they are motivated to do so, etc.
 
gunracer1 said:
i own numerous property's, it needs to be tax payers, as in you pay money into the system. none of the leaches should get a vote to steal other peoples money. because that is all it comes down to. no skin in the game, no vote.
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Agree 100% I've said this for years.
 
woods said:
Eh, you're not using the facilities, you shouldn't have to pay for it. I only say that because I paid school taxes for years while everyone around me renting shipped their multiple kids to school on my tax dime.

Only argument I can see there is if the private closes up, the parents have a financial mishap, and the kiddo needs to go to public.
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Funny how people seem to thing that property taxes don't get rolled up into the rent like the landlord is just paying the taxes out of their pocket on the renters behalf.


I also had another funny idea if the tax laws were adjusted so that only those who paid in would be able to vote. The 1% or so could just jack up the minimum income level before taxes would have to be paid and take control over the government since 99% of the population would suddenly have no vote!
 
Black Sabbath said:
Funny how people seem to thing that property taxes don't get rolled up into the rent like the landlord is just paying the taxes out of their pocket on the renters behalf.
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My tenants's rent doesn't pay the taxes. That account is totally separate from the account I use to pay my taxes.
 
Rerock said:
Deployed ships (submarines) might be a challenge though.
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Ending absentee ballots is a non-starter and shouldn't be done.

Mass mail-in voting is the problem.


woods said:
Eh, you're not using the facilities, you shouldn't have to pay for it. I only say that because I paid school taxes for years while everyone around me renting shipped their multiple kids to school on my tax dime.

Only argument I can see there is if the private closes up, the parents have a financial mishap, and the kiddo needs to go to public.
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What about paying to the US Army Corps of Engineers? I don't eat wheat products, so I shouldn't have to pay for locks and dams on the Upper Mississippi.

What about Federal funding of water and power infrastructure in the Southwest? I don't live a desert. They need mass Federal funding to keep them watered otherwise their cities will dry up and blow away. I was wise enough to move and live where the land can actually sustain me.

The reason our mixed economy re-distributes wealth is to benefit everyone. We are not a pure Capitalism and shouldn't be. We are not a Socialism and we shouldn't be. We are not Libertarian because that is a ridiculous fantasy for grown children.

See, when some of my tax money goes to repair dams in the West, on the other side of the Continental divide, more people in the Southwest have jobs and more tax money is generated.

When a kid goes to a good school, they get better jobs, make better decisions, and pay more tax money to care for us when we're old.

The fact that schools are a Marxist indoctrination camp does not take away from the fact that funding education is important. In fact, it's absolutely critical, literally not a single credible Economist disputes this. Only Lolbertarian nuts and religious fanatics.
 
woods said:
My tenants's rent doesn't pay the taxes. That account is totally separate from the account I use to pay my taxes.
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So you are saying you rent out a place and didn't take into consideration how much the annual taxes were and factor that amount into how much you charge?
 
Voting should be restricted to males, older than 18, maybe 21, with an IQ over 120. IQ science marches on despite virtually everyone else denying that it's real. IQ is predictive, of course nothing concerning humans is individually predictive, which is why Racism is bad. You don't know that you're discriminating against the next Colin Powell, who served in Vietnam and came up with the doctrine that we don't send our military into scenarios without an exit strategy (which the Draft-Dodger George W Bush changed of course).
  • Male
  • Over 21
  • IQ over 120
You can test IQ with the ASVAB. The ASVAB is an IQ test.

Of course I'm biased, I got a 99 on the ASVAB, the highest score they give. Just means I'm in the top percentile of that batch of victims testing nationwide at MEPS :flipoff2:

But if you've served in military, especially the Navy, you know the ASVAB is absolutely valid.

If you set it at 120, you eliminate all the soft-degree Karens who went to school for 'Communications' and other basketweaving horseshit. No offense to anyone with a Comm degree, it's a good way to get a diploma if you're an adult, and high-end Communications is a vital field of study.

But let's be real: These Karens getting Women's Studies degrees are not fit to make Civic decisions, they need to be at home bossing their husband and kids around, the proper place for Karens. Women have the family authority and they should have. They are not citizen decision-makers. They still act like the Country is their family, with all of the prejudices and emotional bullshit that entails.
 
Black Sabbath said:
So you are saying you rent out a place and didn't take into consideration how much the annual taxes were and factor that amount into how much you charge?
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I take lots of factors into consideration. It'd take more than a hike in property taxes to up the rent I charge.
 
woods said:
I take lots of factors into consideration. It'd take more than a hike in property taxes to up the rent I charge.
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But a part of what you are charging the tenant is for the property taxes, correct? There by they are paying the property taxes with you acting as a pass through.
 
Black Sabbath said:
But a part of what you are charging the tenant is for the property taxes, correct? There by they are paying the property taxes with you acting as a pass through.
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Eh, money in, money out. Its like Austin upping the subscription rate here to $25 and then going off and paying his taxes. I mean, sure eventually its connected I guess.
 
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