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Sway Bar Tech

Ghetto Fab. said:
Aren't a lot of the mezzi suspensions setup kinda like that?
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Yeah. It's basically a mezzanine arm but in front of the axle yet still facing forward which makes it pretty unique. They have a lot of interesting motion ratio stuff going on from the angle of those push rods down and back to the axle. Would love to see a shock travel vs axle travel curve, might have to play with the geometry a bit to see what's going on
 
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chaplinfj60 said:
we need pics this sound scary :lmao::lmao: or you can make tools fly real far.........
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Long thin unsupported rod is just gonna flex away leaving you with inconsistant garbage as a result. Worst case you send half a carbide insert flying a couple feet but that's not very impressive.
 
arse_sidewards said:
Long thin unsupported rod is just gonna flex away leaving you with inconsistant garbage as a result. Worst case you send half a carbide insert flying a couple feet but that's not very impressive.
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Ever seen it where the bar tries mounting the insert like a dog in heat? :laughing:

Fuck, you'd really appreciate the heinous old machines I ran for the last year
 
chaplinfj60 said:
we need pics this sound scary :lmao::lmao: or you can make tools fly real far.........
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chucked it halfway, used a steady rest, machined one helf, then flipped it around and machined the other half.

It broke in the middle about 6 months later.
 
Bebop said:
chucked it halfway, used a steady rest, machined one helf, then flipped it around and machined the other half.

It broke in the middle about 6 months later.
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Oh you still used a steady? But it broke roughly where the seam was between your 2 operations?
 
posford said:
Oh you still used a steady? But it broke roughly where the seam was between your 2 operations?
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Correct.

I'm stupid, but not chuck a 36" sway bar in the lathe and try to machine it from one end to the other without any kind of resting system stupid.
 
Bebop said:
Correct.

I'm stupid, but not chuck a 36" sway bar in the lathe and try to machine it from one end to the other without any kind of resting system stupid.
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I read worse here every day :laughing:

I turned some big shafts, 10" diameter 16' long, on a big shitty lathe. We'd chuck onto whatever 2 teeth on the chuck was (1/2" tops) with a stop behind it so you couldn't push it in further with the tail stock. Slide the steady as close to the chuck as possible, don't run the rollers against the shaft yet. Turn enough of a steady band that you could get the steady rest onto it and continue machining. .100 DOC per side, could usually go 2' before it would chatter. Stop, move the steady rest, repeat. If you weren't careful you'd bend the shaft (.005") and have to move back and re-cut with the steady on a good surface. Once had it bad enough that I got the steady to the tail end, released the tailstock, and turned a new center relative to the stock, went back to the chuck, and started over. I figure similar practices would apply.
 
Treefrog said:
Math, lots of math.:flipoff2:

If you have the ability to solve articulated suspension geometry, know spring rates, slider stops, cg, weight, sway bar arm length, sway bar tube length, g force (or side hill angle), you can create a curve showing bar rate vs roll angle.
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Was afraid that would be the answer.

In my case, I'm going to want a set of street along with a set of offroad bars. My thinking is, that's going to be the easiest parts to swap when switching from one mode to the other.
 
Treefrog said:
That definitely an interesting set up. Any idea on travel numbers?
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Has 14" travel in the front and 16" in the back according to a magazine article. It has the same 14" shocks front and back.
 
gt1guy said:
Was afraid that would be the answer.

In my case, I'm going to want a set of street along with a set of offroad bars. My thinking is, that's going to be the easiest parts to swap when switching from one mode to the other.
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ORO makes a dual sway bar kit that works well.
 
The Sway-loc dual rate system (I believe that’s the ORO?) is excellent. And the single lever to flip between the two rates was simple and effective. The pneumatic option for in-cab toggling looked sweet too, but no experience
 
If you need anything translated that google doesn't understand, let me know.
I wrote part of that article.
 
Bebop said:
chucked it halfway, used a steady rest, machined one helf, then flipped it around and machined the other half.

It broke in the middle about 6 months later.
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You were halfway there. Use a round insert. Then sand all the tool marks out. Flap disk on a grinder in the lathe makes quick work of it.

High feed and light DOC keeps the chatter away.
 
posford said:
Has anyone built a sway bar that the arms double as cantilever arms for shock packaging? A friend and I were bench building talking about the concept recently
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Every Brian Kudela designed TT with cantilever suspension.

Big Mac
All 2 Baldwin trucks
(Barstow) Rick Johnsons

The certified heat treating 7S truck
"BUTCH" Jimmy Johnsons TT.
 
Bebop said:
ORO makes a dual sway bar kit that works well.
Click to expand...

AgitatedPancake said:
The Sway-loc dual rate system (I believe that’s the ORO?) is excellent. And the single lever to flip between the two rates was simple and effective. The pneumatic option for in-cab toggling looked sweet too, but no experience
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That does look pretty slick. Unfortunately, I'm locked into custom length bars front and rear. Got the tubes already mounted and welded in place. I'm at 32 3/8" front and 49 7/8" rear.
 
bdkw1 said:
You were halfway there. Use a round insert. Then sand all the tool marks out. Flap disk on a grinder in the lathe makes quick work of it.

High feed and light DOC keeps the chatter away.
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I did all of that except using a round insert. I'll try that next time (if there is a next time). Thanks for the pointers !

I ended up turning a 35sp bar from 1.25" active diam down to .800 and about 6 months and a few rides later it "broke". When I say broke, I worded this wrong. It deformed and didn't come back straight. Like I over-flexed it or something.

I then drove the car for 1 year without a sway bar and got quite used to it this way. Surpisingly it only lacked in body roll control in climbs and going fast in turns. Stability was never an issue when crawling.

Last year I tore down in the shocks, pulled even more rebound valving, which accentuated the need for a sway bar. I installed a Currie Antirock system. They make 3 inexpensive bars in .770, .850 and 1" for my width, which makes it easy to try various setups. Currently I have the .770 since it was the closest to my previous bar. I rode the new suspension setup and the car has never worked so well. That said, I feel like it may still need more bar. Maybe I'll bump it up to the .850 model.
 
Here is my sway bar tech since I am Ultrapoor. Went with a bar that was from an s10 blazer. The truggy still flexes great, but settles the cloud of titties feeling


The stock links have not been changed to a double rod end like a Currie
 

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Stolen from TK1

...sorta general rules, your application will vary.
  • Arm level to the earth when the shock is roughly 50/50 travel. For a rock crawler with lots of shock sag, arm will be pointed up hill
  • The arm length should be at least as long as the shock travel if possible.
  • End links generally need to be at least as long as the travel of the shock or longer.
  • Mounting tabs on the axle should generally be 1-2" wider than the outside of the sway bar arms.
 
rattle_snake said:
  • End links generally need to be at least as long as the travel of the shock or longer.
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My friend learned this one the hard way. Ran too short of an end link and it inverted in the whoops and broke a bunch of stuff. Oops.
 
Trying to figure out what bar length, arm length and mounting scheme to get a sway bar to play well with the rest. The outside frame track bar mount really fucks this up. Bar would have to be around 5-6" longer to mount it centered, and pivot/load point is out from frame. Then tire clearance is an issue, axle mounts to close laterally to bar.
I think redesign of track bar bracket is the only decent solution. Below frame and not outward. Reservoirs have to move also.
vi8_4CrwyaCzAmmOG9cJe1unn=w1292-h970-no?authuser=0.jpg


Frame is 34 wide, TK1's 40.5" bar with ends is 37.5 inside. Resulting gap is 1.75" per side
Next down is 39, 1" gap to frame. too tight?

TK1's 1.25" bar tapers to 1", so with 13-16" arm length the rate is around 150-225 lb/in.
 
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