Steering and brake upgrades for older tow rigs

[YotaAtieToo]

YotaAtieToo

95-97 OBS F350 D60s’ caliper mounting holes are same as Super Duty’s 1999-2004 D50/60 (99-04 calipers will bolt on 95-97 knuckles, but not advised as pistons can fall out when pads run thin…)

Dana/Ford used shorter caliper mounting bolt holes at least during the 05-12 before going back to 95-04 mounting’s bolt mounting holes distance/spacing.

This is what I thought, but grendal just said he put 13 brakes on an 05 axle. Maybe this was with mismatching caliper brackets?

I want to say we can direct bolt-on the +13’s big 14” brakes to 99-04 knuckles via rotors and calipers. I don’t have parts on me to confirm, though. Can someone on here try and get back to us????

What about using the 95-97 knuckles? Shouldn't be any different except the lug pattern issue?

2013+ f350 is 14.29(2013-2016 f450s are as well)

More Information for DURAGO BR901170

www.rockauto.com

2004 f450 is 14.53

More Information for DURAGO BR54077

www.rockauto.com

calipers have the same 2.358 piston size on both the 2004 450 and 2013+ f350

2004 450

More Information for CARDONE 188047

www.rockauto.com

2013 f350

More Information for CARDONE 185486

www.rockauto.com

Thank you, I always forget how good rockauto is for brake specs.

 

[Grendel]

This is what I thought, but grendal just said he put 13 brakes on an 05 axle. Maybe this was with mismatching caliper brackets?

I swapped knuckles, too. I did mention that.

 

[TrailTamer]

What about using the 95-97 knuckles? Shouldn't be any different except the lug pattern issue?

I had high hope and tried this.....no success. I drilled +13 SDD60 rotors oversized to go over 8x6.5 BP. Rotor go on, caliper bolt on, actually fits together.... but doesn't quite fit. Caliper touch/rub on the rotor and will lock up with caliper bolts tightened.

I need to give this another look later this spring and try figure out a way to make it to work without extensive custom work to wear items (either rotors or calipers). I want to be able to use wear items right off auto parts stores' shelf with no more than drilling out rotor lug holes (if I can't make Ram 2500's rotors to work).

btw Ram 2500 rotors are nearly identical to +13 SD rotors, overall diameter, thickness and offset/height are so close to same, the biggest difference are in the hub pilot diameter and the metric 8x170 and the sae 8x6.5 wheel BP.

 

[Grendel]

I had high hope and tried this.....no success. I drilled +13 SDD60 rotors oversized to go over 8x6.5 BP. Rotor go on, caliper bolt on, actually fits together.... but doesn't quite fit. Caliper touch/rub on the rotor and will lock up with caliper bolts tightened.

I need to give this another look later this spring and try figure out a way to make it to work without extensive custom work to wear items (either rotors or calipers). I want to be able to use wear items right off auto parts stores' shelf with no more than drilling out rotor lug holes (if I can't make Ram 2500's rotors to work).

btw Ram 2500 rotors are nearly identical to +13 SD rotors, overall diameter, thickness and offset/height are so close to same, the biggest difference are in the hub pilot diameter and the metric 8x170 and the sae 8x6.5 wheel BP.

Trying shimming the caliper abutment?

 

[TrailTamer]

Trying shimming the caliper abutment?

Caliper bracket's "bridge" touch the "hat" of the rotor, and I believe the inside of caliper touch the outermost of the rotor diameter too. The offset/alignment with wheel hub, rotor and caliper isn't the problem. The caliper sits roughly 1/4" too close to center of the hub.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Caliper bracket's "bridge" touch the "hat" of the rotor, and I believe the inside of caliper touch the outermost of the rotor diameter too. The offset/alignment with wheel hub, rotor and caliper isn't the problem. The caliper sits roughly 1/4" too close to center of the hub.

slot the holes in the knuckle?

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I swapped knuckles, too. I did mention that.

Oops, sorry. Makes sense.

I had high hope and tried this.....no success. I drilled +13 SDD60 rotors oversized to go over 8x6.5 BP. Rotor go on, caliper bolt on, actually fits together.... but doesn't quite fit. Caliper touch/rub on the rotor and will lock up with caliper bolts tightened.

Thats with a 13+ F250/350 caliper, not the E series caliper you mentioned earlier?

I need to give this another look later this spring and try figure out a way to make it to work without extensive custom work to wear items (either rotors or calipers). I want to be able to use wear items right off auto parts stores' shelf with no more than drilling out rotor lug holes (if I can't make Ram 2500's rotors to work).

This is my goal with any brake work. My thought is (probably the same for you) that if I'm out on a trip, a caliper locks up and wastes a rotor I can swap one with minimal work. Drilling the holes bigger is pretty easy compared to turning the OD of a rotor.

btw Ram 2500 rotors are nearly identical to +13 SD rotors, overall diameter, thickness and offset/height are so close to same, the biggest difference are in the hub pilot diameter and the metric 8x170 and the sae 8x6.5 wheel BP.

I was looking at that as well. I think the ram rotor is ~1/4" smaller OD, but otherwise almost identical. Did you try that rotor with a 13+ F250/350 caliper? Did it also rub the hat OD?

 

[Gravy]

For steering check the little panhard bar behind the engine cross member. Maybe look into building one that uses rebuildable heims and stronger tubing.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

For steering check the little panhard bar behind the engine cross member. Maybe look into building one that uses rebuildable heims and stronger tubing.

I've actually never even touched that thing. I plan to just rebush it as I've never really heard any issues besides old bushings?

Adjustable would be cool, but I'd almost just build new mounts and all that at the same time to make it longer than 14"

 

[Projectjunkie]

An engine swap and a brake swap and steering upgrades, I think you're at the point where a chassis swap makes more sense, here's a handful of "2007 frame-full 172 wb" from car-part.com, I imagine you could buy a roller with the gearing you want for $1600 and start worrying about body mounts, then sell your d60

 

[YotaAtieToo]

An engine swap and a brake swap and steering upgrades, I think you're at the point where a chassis swap makes more sense, here's a handful of "2007 frame-full 172 wb" from car-part.com, I imagine you could buy a roller with the gearing you want for $1600 and start worrying about body mounts, then sell your d60

You may be right, I'm really not wanting to do a full chassis swap. I don't really even have a place to swap the engine, let alone a full chassis. The brake stuff is down the road as I'm just trying to get an idea of which way to go.

I'm sure you know as much as any that "just throw your cab on" is much easier said than done, and the nickle and dime stuff will eat you alive.

It also feels foolish to pull apart one of the most desirable trucks of the last 30 years to do a body swap. I'd rather just find a complete 05-10 truck and drop the engine in, no sense in making a hodge podge just to have the 97 cab.

In reality I'll probably just do whatever brake upgrade I can while still retaining my 16s

 

[Gravy]

I've actually never even touched that thing. I plan to just rebush it as I've never really heard any issues besides old bushings?

Adjustable would be cool, but I'd almost just build new mounts and all that at the same time to make it longer than 14"

Iv ridden in obs fords and know the feeling on sweeping turns. The leaf springs and their mounting bushings seem to flex and allow the axle to move slightly.

Always wondered if a longer panhard would help.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Iv ridden in obs fords and know the feeling on sweeping turns. The leaf springs and their mounting bushings seem to flex and allow the axle to move slightly.

Always wondered if a longer panhard would help.

The front shackle bushings are a joke at like 1.5" wide. I replaced them with 3.5" wide bushings and regular shackles when I did the SD leafs a long time ago.

 

[u2slow]

Iv ridden in obs fords and know the feeling on sweeping turns. The leaf springs and their mounting bushings seem to flex and allow the axle to move slightly.

Always wondered if a longer panhard would help.

RSK to fix that shackle problem.

Longer panhard will push your axle off to the passenger side.

 

[YotaAtieToo]

RSK to fix that shackle problem.

Longer panhard will push your axle off to the passenger side.

Those rsk kits are shit. A 4"+ lift with with flat or negative arch leafs is fucking retarded. Not to mention moving the shackle to the back does absolutely nothing for ride quality.

 

[u2slow]

Riiight.... 99+ superduties ride/track worse with the shackle in the back. The negative arch is ttb.

I'm not sure I like the kits per-se, I would do my own thing that didn't add 4".

 

[YotaAtieToo]

Riiight.... 99+ superduties ride/track worse with the shackle in the back. The negative arch is ttb.

I'm not sure I like the kits per-se, I would do my own thing that didn't add 4".

The shackle position has nothing to do with it  the shit stock obs shackles and floppy steering are the problem.

Even if it was, the was the rsk kits drop everything down is dumb, if you insist on moving the shackle, put it through the frame like it should be.

All superduty leafs are flat or slightly negative except for whatever the super stiff version is. All up travel is putting the leaf negative.

 

[Projectjunkie]

I love the body and interior of an obs truck, but the reality is its leaf front and rear, 1960s tech brakes, shit turning radius, flimsy frame, tiny steering box, and then we all want to put 35s or 37s on it

I'll be going with a 05+ frame swap if I do another fummins, I gave 1800 for a rolling chassis 5 plus years ago, I'm sure they're even cheaper now

 

[rockota]

The front shackle bushings are a joke at like 1.5" wide. I replaced them with 3.5" wide bushings and regular shackles when I did the SD leafs a long time ago.

have any detail on that?

 

[rockota]

Those rsk kits are shit. A 4"+ lift with with flat or negative arch leafs is fucking retarded. Not to mention moving the shackle to the back does absolutely nothing for ride quality.

SKY has an RSK that, combined with SD springs, nets something like 2.5"

 

[YotaAtieToo]

have any detail on that?

99-04 Superduty leafs in an obs without a rsk

www.pirate4x4.com

SKY has an RSK that, combined with SD springs, nets something like 2.5"

I don't like them, bolt on crap imo, and dropping the rear of the spring way down.

Mine netted almost no lift. The only thing I should have done was reuse the obs 3/8" thick block deals to keep the leaf where it was.

I might do some BDS or OME ~2" lift leafs some day. Having a little positive arch and multiple, thinner leaves is a good thing.

 

[rockota]

99-04 Superduty leafs in an obs without a rsk

www.pirate4x4.com

I don't like them, bolt on crap imo, and dropping the rear of the spring way down.

Mine netted almost no lift. The only thing I should have done was reuse the obs 3/8" thick block deals to keep the leaf where it was.

I might do some BDS or OME ~2" lift leafs some day. Having a little positive arch and multiple, thinner leaves is a good thing.

I got this far >>>> Forgive my lack of pics,


c'mon, man!

 

[YotaAtieToo]

I got this far >>>> Forgive my lack of pics,


c'mon, man!

Pics work for me? Scroll down further......

 

[u2slow]

I can report my 07 F250/350 diff measures 8.5" between bosses on the knuckle, and a similar year F450 measures 10.5".

I can't find my 99-04 knuckle.