State of housing costs in the US. Where does it end?

[RusM]

Rates are a big problem now. I've often thought single family residences should be able to be financed like a bond with a super low interest rate, like 3.5%. But that it should only apply to one mortgage and be used by actual people not corporations. Also if you want another mortgage you have to pay market rates.

 

[Tin Roof]

And some (like my son) have a spending problem just like the .gov. Still haven't figured out what happened, but that is not the way we raised him.

We have 4 kids, ages 31-16. Every one of them has a different view on finances. The oldest and youngest are misers, the second oldest tries to save money but still likes to spend, the second youngest doesn't give a fuck if he spends his entire paycheck within two days or not. But, he's getting better.

 

[Motorcharge]

Another question to add:
Since wages haven't increased, when will the boomers realize that there aren't as many kids out there to afford the lifestyle houses that they owned and they will take a bath with current interest rates?
Nobody I know is buying these $600k+ houses on the golf course. They have been sitting for 3ish months with a few price cuts.

This reminded me of another factor in all this. Boomers aren't downsizing like older people traditionally do. They're a large chunk of the market that's selling to these investment firms and then moving into bigger houses. So instead of them selling houses off like they normally would, these houses are going directly into investment portfolios instead of hitting the market like they traditionally would. Can't really blame them on the selling aspect either, anyone would be stupid not to take a cash offer 20% over market value.

 

[grumpy356]

Man, The same person who "Can Never afford a house" Also seems to be the guy who Tips 25% on damn near everything he buys, has 50 online streaming services, is rolling in a car 15 years newer than my newest rig, and has $1,000 phone he is using to keep him occupied while he takes a shit.

Yeah, housing is fucking stupid at this point, but the spending habits of the US consumer is as much a reason they are destined to rent.

 

[arse_sidewards]

This reminded me of another factor in all this. Boomers aren't downsizing like older people traditionally do. They're a large chunk of the market that's selling to these investment firms and then moving into bigger houses. So instead of them selling houses off like they normally would, these houses are going directly into investment portfolios instead of hitting the market like they traditionally would. Can't really blame them on the selling aspect either, anyone would be stupid not to take a cash offer 20% over market value.

I absolutely can blame them for lacking the foresight to see that the shit they voted for again and again and again would lead to the situation we're in now.

Man, The same person who "Can Never afford a house" Also seems to be the guy who Tips 25% on damn near everything he buys, has 50 online streaming services, is rolling in a car 15 years newer than my newest rig, and has $1,000 phone he is using to keep him occupied while he takes a shit.

Yeah, housing is fucking stupid at this point, but the spending habits of the US consumer is as much a reason they are destined to rent.

How is that any different than squandering some portion of your 20s acting like a piece of shit hippie?

 

[ScottRS]

This reminded me of another factor in all this. Boomers aren't downsizing like older people traditionally do. They're a large chunk of the market that's selling to these investment firms and then moving into bigger houses. So instead of them selling houses off like they normally would, these houses are going directly into investment portfolios instead of hitting the market like they traditionally would. Can't really blame them on the selling aspect either, anyone would be stupid not to take a cash offer 20% over market value.

Between them buying way back when, and the market and inflation doing their things, a lot of those boomers are looking at capital gains tax bills of more than they paid in the first place, should they sell. Sometimes several times what they paid. My folks are in that boat, and while having a bunch of cash could be nice, and they'd actually like to downsize, they're taking the position of "as soon as one of us dies, the other is taking the step up basis and dumping the house before the body is cold". Anything to keep from paying that tax bill. Boggles my mind that they're good with the ongoing property tax bill on the way there that'll probably add up to just as much as the cap gains would've been. I'm sure they're far from the only ones of their age demographic doing the same.

 

[bigun]

Some of that came down to zoning changes with Femar. I'm waiting to see how much they can bribe them for an exemption.



Hey now! I played video games in those classes. English killed me.


Another question to add:
Since wages haven't increased, when will the boomers realize that there aren't as many kids out there to afford the lifestyle houses that they owned and they will take a bath with current interest rates?
Nobody I know is buying these $600k+ houses on the golf course. They have been sitting for 3ish months with a few price cuts.

I'm not sure what it is you have against "Boomers" just remember the next genration is going to blame you.
My wages were never enough to afford to buy a house, I was doing good to pay for a studio, thats why I I got ito an RV, generally RV spaces are cheaper than housing, not the place I'm at now but they are the only game in town

 

[arse_sidewards]

Boggles my mind that they're good with the ongoing property tax bill on the way there that'll probably add up to just as much as the cap gains would've been. I'm sure they're far from the only ones of their age demographic doing the same.

If that generation had financial foresight we would have this thread right here right now.

 

[Tin Roof]

If that generation had financial foresight we would have this thread right here right now.

I wish I could live long enough to listen to future generations talk about how retarded yours was.

 

[JD Mark]

This topic is on my mind a lot with my kids coming into the house buying ages. One had bought a house for way more than I would have paid but that is the market so I am happy he is set as far as that goes.

My other son had a great job. Makes pretty good money. I honestly cant ever see him affording one let alone saving for a down payment.

I know people that are drowning paying 2k/mo. in rent and it just keep going up and up. Were getting into 50-60% of income range for housing for a lot of people.

I know people trying to buy a house after building a ton of equity that can't even get their offers taken of full asking or sometimes 10-20% over. Huge investment companies are just coming in and paying cash at 21% over. Of course, this just drives the prices higher and higher.

I don't pretend to know that answer on how to "fix it". Doubtful there is a government solution but also doubtful that there is a private side solution other than a massive crash, and even then I don't think it falls to affordable for many.

I have seen people propose a ban on single family housing investing. That could be a ban on huge corporate investors or even regular people owning more than say two homes. I'm not sure "ban" would be legal for regular folks but of course the .gov could tax the fuck out of a third home purchase so make it unattractive. I am not for the .gov getting involved in anything before I start getting called a commie just FYI.

It's sad that I see so many of my kids friends, family, etc. in the <30 group that can't make the dream of affording a house happen unless they have some family money or assistance.



It seems that something has to give though.

Discuss.

It's one we've been struggling with for awhile now.

As I mentioned above, my son/DIL have a spending problem. We forced my son to start saving by starting up a separate account not in his name that a chunk of his check goes to. Otherwise he would spend it.

They married Oct '21. We strongly suggested they wait out the craziness and get an apartment for a few months, which they did. But rent is so stupid they couldn't save more for a down payment. She got pregnant which wasn't going to help the finances. We bought a fifth wheel that they could live in for a while, but with the baby that wasn't exactly great so we remodeled the basement so they could move in their. It's a walk out so separate entrances, they have a kitchenette. The only shared part is laundry room.

Looking back, probably should have told them to buy a house back then. Who knew?

#2 is on the way now. They keep looking but between prices and interest rates plus their spending habits and they'll be foreclosed on in a year. Maybe we should let them? I don't know, maybe we screwed up. They want to move out. We would prefer they move out despite the house being way too big for us, but my business is on the same property.

Does it really make sense to have them buy a house they can't afford and then screw up their credit because it was foreclosed on? It annoys the living shit out of me, because we had moved into our second house by his age, had a shit ton of equity built up by then. And that is NOT how we raised him. He's getting better, but not that much yet.

Maybe we'll end up selling our house to him and financing it. No idea, but I haven't seen any real answers yet.

 

[Motorcharge]

I absolutely can blame them for lacking the foresight to see that the shit they voted for again and again and again would lead to the situation we're in now.

Well no shit, but that's an entirely different issue.

 

[bad zuki]

This reminded me of another factor in all this. Boomers aren't downsizing like older people traditionally do. They're a large chunk of the market that's selling to these investment firms and then moving into bigger houses. So instead of them selling houses off like they normally would, these houses are going directly into investment portfolios instead of hitting the market like they traditionally would. Can't really blame them on the selling aspect either, anyone would be stupid not to take a cash offer 20% over market value.

They are supplementing the funds/portfolios they own. It's not a pyramid scheme. Trust us. It doesn't matter now. Private equity has so much wealth that it's going to remain self sufficient, it will just be the lapse of investments that cause recessions and inflation will keep the peasants down.

I'm not sure what it is you have against "Boomers" just remember the next genration is going to blame you.
My wages were never enough to afford to buy a house, I was doing good to pay for a studio, thats why I I got ito an RV, generally RV spaces are cheaper than housing, not the place I'm at now but they are the only game in town

I've got no issues with them, just their unsustainable spending/consumerism habits. I'm mainly pointing the finger at 80+ crowd who is pissing away life savings on stuff that doesn't matte. I know plenty of people who bought a house in the 80s with 15% mortgages, those people will save every dollar they can. Compare that to someone who did business in the 60's where all you needed for a loan was to ask nicely.

I wish I could live long enough to listen to future generations talk about how retarded yours was.

We have already labeled stupid for years. We don't care anymore.

 

[Motorcharge]

I'm not sure what it is you have against "Boomers" just remember the next genration is going to blame you.

I can't find the exact time because I'm at work, but there's a good 20-30 min chunk in there where Tucker breaks down exactly what's wrong with Boomers and how they completely destroyed the US economy and basically blame our generation for it.

 

[Projectjunkie]

Man, The same person who "Can Never afford a house" Also seems to be the guy who Tips 25% on damn near everything he buys, has 50 online streaming services, is rolling in a car 15 years newer than my newest rig, and has $1,000 phone he is using to keep him occupied while he takes a shit.

Yeah, housing is fucking stupid at this point, but the spending habits of the US consumer is as much a reason they are destined to rent.

This all applies too


On the flip side of, "the banks and the globalists are fucking us! " *and they are


I looked up the house my buddies and I rented in 2002, higher end hoa neighborhood and still desirable so I consider it to be a fair apple's to apples comparison. Comparing my rent then to renting a similar house in the same neighborhood, and the $10hr I was making then to the $19-20 the same job would pay now...
Me and my 2 buddies could work the same job and rent the same house today


It seems there was a lag in housing inflation from 2009-2019 that caught up quickly in 2021 or so




Another theme is delayed gratification and 1st time buyers want a turn key 2300sqft house like their parents bought in their 40s after trading up 3x. They expect better than the 1400sqft fixer upper we started with....

 

[Norm]

I don't see prices dropping much around here, but inventory went from 3 months 18 months ago to a 12 months now. Only really high end (2 million and up) and low end (under $500k) seem to be moving at all. I don't think thee market moves much until there is a significant change in mortgage rates.

 

[Slander]

I can't find the exact time because I'm at work, but there's a good 20-30 min chunk in there where Tucker breaks down exactly what's wrong with Boomers and how they completely destroyed the US economy and basically blame our generation for it.

Tim Dillon does a fantastic job at breaking it down as well. My favorite quote from him about the boomers: "they are a generation with a ton of life experience but no wisdom"

 

[Motorcharge]

Tim Dillon does a fantastic job at breaking it down as well. My favorite quote from him about the boomers: "they are a generation with a ton of life experience but no wisdom"

He does, but he'll rant, accurately, about the subject for 3 hours and he's hard to listen to for a lot of people. He'll also get dismissed because he's from our generation. Meanwhile Tucker is well respected, Gen X, and does a really good job of condensing the subject into a digestable 20 minute or so talk.

 

[Slander]

He does, but he'll rant, accurately, about the subject for 3 hours and he's hard to listen to for a lot of people. He'll also get dismissed because he's from our generation. Meanwhile Tucker is well respected, Gen X, and does a really good job of condensing the subject into a digestable 20 minute or so talk.

Yea but your face will be hurting from laughing while listening to TD, instead of a whiney sperg like Tucker. Nothing against Tucker btw.

 

[Motorcharge]

Yea but your face will be hurting from laughing while listening to TD, instead of a whiney sperg like Tucker. Nothing against Tucker btw.

I will, yes. But I'm not the boomer target audience here.

 

[bad zuki]

Man, The same person who "Can Never afford a house" Also seems to be the guy who Tips 25% on damn near everything he buys, has 50 online streaming services, is rolling in a car 15 years newer than my newest rig, and has $1,000 phone he is using to keep him occupied while he takes a shit.

Yeah, housing is fucking stupid at this point, but the spending habits of the US consumer is as much a reason they are destined to rent.

I disagree with the first part. 1-2 streaming services are cheaper than literally any other form of entertainment. Netflix and Disney for a month is less than 2 movie tickets and popcorn. Hell, without tip it's $40+ for 1 dinner for 2.

Also, banks don't take rental payments as proof of getting a mortgage and makes it a huge barrier from renting to owning... If that wasn't the case, it would be a far easier thing to reach. Some people CAN NOT live with their parents and renting is the only option to save up for a house. Then they are trapped by not making enough, in the banks eyes, to qualify for a mortgage.

Another theme is delayed gratification and 1st time buyers want a turn key 2300sqft house like their parents bought in their 40s after trading up 3x. They expect better than the 1400sqft fixer upper we started with....

Yes, then add to the mix house flippers who make all the lower level housing impossible to startout with.

 

[dntsdad]

Well, of course I knew that I would get the idiot answers.

"Move outta California!!" "Pull up the bootstraps and get a better job!!"

Where I live in California, pricing isn't the nonsense you read about in the Bay Area, LA, etc. I DO want to move. He isn't going to move from here because of family so that isn't an option.

Get a better job? lol. He really does have a great job. Works for PGE (which the main utility company in Ca for those of you who live elsewhere). He is smart and will move up the chain there so he is working on a "better job". However, since his field is fairly small, a company like PGE is the best place to be without a complete career change and he likes what he does and does make good money. 27 and making 90k, no car payment should allow you to buy a decent house. When rent sucks up more half your income, it's hard to save.

Like I said, I do want to move. I look at real estate ALL THE TIME in southern Utah, Northern Az, and now, after my trip, in Oregon as well.

St. George is MORE expensive that the Central Valley of Ca for like housing and wages are much less. Same with Hurricane, and most all the cities that don't get a shitload of snow. Northern Az. basically the same except their wages are even worse the Utah. Oregon I have just started to look at but I think the pricing of housing is higher than where I live for like house. I have a hard time gauging neighborhood quality, etc. since I don't live there but I usually street view around a bit to get an idea.

This isn't a California thing. At least not my area of California. I get that people who don't live here and hear about some 400sq ft house for 7.2million in LA thinks everything in the state is like that. It isn't.

Like I said, I don't know what the answer is but I really hope Harris doesn't start beating this issue because it will resonate with a lot of people. The <30 crowd for sure and people like me, that even though my house may go down in value, seeing my kids, nephews and nieces, etc. be able to buy a decent house is fine with me.

Most Americans want to see their kids do better than themselves. It aint happening right now for a lot of people.

 

[dntsdad]

You reap what you vote for.

Who did I vote for?

 

[Slander]

Clearly it's a great job if he can't afford to buy a house

 

[grumpy356]

Another theme is delayed gratification and 1st time buyers want a turn key 2300sqft house like their parents bought in their 40s after trading up 3x. They expect better than the 1400sqft fixer upper we started with....

this goes back to HGTV.

The flipper suck up what was once considered “the starter homes,” and upgrade them until those are no longer affordable, and that sale sets the comps / market.

People aren’t competing against 1st time home buyers. They are competing against them, and every woman who knows a contractor and has a dream of being a residential version of Donald Trump.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Well, of course I knew that I would get the idiot answers.

"Move outta California!!" "Pull up the bootstraps and get a better job!!"

Where I live in California, pricing isn't the nonsense you read about in the Bay Area, LA, etc. I DO want to move. He isn't going to move from here because of family so that isn't an option.

Get a better job? lol. He really does have a great job. Works for PGE (which the main utility company in Ca for those of you who live elsewhere). He is smart and will move up the chain there so he is working on a "better job". However, since his field is fairly small, a company like PGE is the best place to be without a complete career change and he likes what he does and does make good money. 27 and making 90k, no car payment should allow you to buy a decent house. When rent sucks up more half your income, it's hard to save.

This reminds me. One of the things that really bothers me about the usual out of touch scumbags is that they think it's reasonable to expect someone to be above average or even near the very top in multiple ways in order to to things that they, as middling nobody's did. Say nothing of the fact that not everybody can be above average, it's just not mathematically possible.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Who did I vote for?

six decades of establishment politicians.

 

[JD Mark]

Well, of course I knew that I would get the idiot answers.

"Move outta California!!" "Pull up the bootstraps and get a better job!!"

Where I live in California, pricing isn't the nonsense you read about in the Bay Area, LA, etc. I DO want to move. He isn't going to move from here because of family so that isn't an option.

Get a better job? lol. He really does have a great job. Works for PGE (which the main utility company in Ca for those of you who live elsewhere). He is smart and will move up the chain there so he is working on a "better job". However, since his field is fairly small, a company like PGE is the best place to be without a complete career change and he likes what he does and does make good money. 27 and making 90k, no car payment should allow you to buy a decent house. When rent sucks up more half your income, it's hard to save.

Like I said, I do want to move. I look at real estate ALL THE TIME in southern Utah, Northern Az, and now, after my trip, in Oregon as well.

St. George is MORE expensive that the Central Valley of Ca for like housing and wages are much less. Same with Hurricane, and most all the cities that don't get a shitload of snow. Northern Az. basically the same except their wages are even worse the Utah. Oregon I have just started to look at but I think the pricing of housing is higher than where I live for like house. I have a hard time gauging neighborhood quality, etc. since I don't live there but I usually street view around a bit to get an idea.

This isn't a California thing. At least not my area of California. I get that people who don't live here and hear about some 400sq ft house for 7.2million in LA thinks everything in the state is like that. It isn't.

Like I said, I don't know what the answer is but I really hope Harris doesn't start beating this issue because it will resonate with a lot of people. The <30 crowd for sure and people like me, that even though my house may go down in value, seeing my kids, nephews and nieces, etc. be able to buy a decent house is fine with me.

Most Americans want to see their kids do better than themselves. It aint happening right now for a lot of people.

I'm looking to move strictly because of the political climate here in Michigan. We're well on our way to becoming the Kali of the midwest.

Overall, the west side is not a bad place to live. But it isn't getting better or less expensive. And there are way too many people.

 

[Stingray]

What job did he find that allowed him to save over $40k/yr right out of high school?

Mom and I have not given him any hard cash monetary assistance, but we saw early on he was frugal with his money and saved nearly everything. So no rent and free meals, also it's a combined effort between him and his fiancée. he has a larger portion but joint effort.

He's working for an asphalt grinding and paving co.

 

[westracing01]

Get a better job? lol. He really does have a great job. Works for PGE (which the main utility company in Ca for those of you who live elsewhere). He is smart and will move up the chain there so he is working on a "better job". However, since his field is fairly small, a company like PGE is the best place to be without a complete career change and he likes what he does and does make good money. 27 and making 90k, no car payment should allow you to buy a decent house. When rent sucks up more half your income, it's hard to save.

90K is about what my wife and I brought in combined in '12 when we bought our home in CT.

90K won't get it done today anywhere on the west coast or northeast. $90K in 2012 is right around $123K today... Our home cost just over $200k back then. It's another $100k today, depending on what you want to believe.

If you can afford $2k in rent, you can afford the mortgage. It's the down money that's the problem. Plus, as idiotic as this sounds, sub $100K in salary isn't really enough.

 

[Slander]

Mom and I have not given him any hard cash monetary assistance, but we saw early on he was frugal with his money and saved nearly everything. So no rent and free meals, also it's a combined effort between him and his fiancée. he has a larger portion but joint effort.

He's working for an asphalt grinding and paving co.

So you subsidized the two largest expenses one has, that's a pretty good chunk of hard cash monetary assistance!