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Snow wheeling and automatic transmission

Sidekicktodd

Sidekicktodd

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 4, 2022
Member Number
5825
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81
Loc
Sonoma county
I was snow wheeling this weekend and smoked my th350. What’s the trick to keep these things happy in the snow. Yes my trans cooler probably needs to be bigger. I was running a 4.3 vortec 2.28 case 5.29 diff and 37s at about 3000-3500rpm in 3rd gear and it would run about 220temp and then I’d stop and let it cool off and eventually it shit the bed. Reverse and 3rd are barely hanging on 1st and 2nd are strong still. I noticed if I run my 4.7 case and 3rd gear it runs cooler but then I’m slower and higher in the rpms.
 

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Snow wheelin is hard on transmissions. Youd think the low temps and constant blast of snow on the pan would help, but obviously it doesn't do enough :laughing:

Bigger cooler seems to be the only thing to really solve the issue.

Or look at trying to get the tc locked when you're doing long pulls?
 
Sidekicktodd said:
I was snow wheeling this weekend and smoked my th350. What’s the trick to keep these things happy in the snow. Yes my trans cooler probably needs to be bigger. I was running a 4.3 vortec 2.28 case 5.29 diff and 37s at about 3000-3500rpm in 3rd gear and it would run about 220temp and then I’d stop and let it cool off and eventually it shit the bed. Reverse and 3rd are barely hanging on 1st and 2nd are strong still. I noticed if I run my 4.7 case and 3rd gear it runs cooler but then I’m slower and higher in the rpms.
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Increase the fluid capacity.

I increased my E4OD fluid capacity by 30%.
 
The guy that had the cameleon buggy did an artical year ago saying the biggest issue with snow running was heat.

Snow is way harder on trans than you think, especialy bombing through it.

And its a th350, what did you think was gona happen!?

One thing ive wanted to do but never got around to is use an a/c condensor as a trans cooler. Large surface a med diam tubes
 
:lmao:
Hows that torque multiplication workin out now?
Bigger cooler and lower gear@ higher rpm maybe:eek:
 
Sidekicktodd said:
I was snow wheeling this weekend and smoked my th350. What’s the trick to keep these things happy in the snow. Yes my trans cooler probably needs to be bigger. I was running a 4.3 vortec 2.28 case 5.29 diff and 37s at about 3000-3500rpm in 3rd gear and it would run about 220temp and then I’d stop and let it cool off and eventually it shit the bed. Reverse and 3rd are barely hanging on 1st and 2nd are strong still. I noticed if I run my 4.7 case and 3rd gear it runs cooler but then I’m slower and higher in the rpms.
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I'm running a 3.4 Toy with an A340 Trans, in 4wd high the torque converter is always "off the chip" meaning your always slipping the converter, causing heat, I did two things, First I installed an over ride switch to lock out the converter, "less heat"
Second I have dual cases, so I run in one of the two low ranges, again helping the converter stay spooled and not slip as much, betting all your heat is coming from the converter not staying engaged.
I hear guys with autos struggle with keeping the converter spooled.

EDIT
also a bigger cooler can never hurt.
 
total newb said:
One thing ive wanted to do but never got around to is use an a/c condensor as a trans cooler. Large surface a med diam tubes
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I did it on my old F150. Worked great. And way easier than installing a universal fit cooler that you have to make brackets for.
 
Stingray said:
I'm running a 3.4 Toy with an A340 Trans, in 4wd high the torque converter is always "off the chip" meaning your always slipping the converter, causing heat, I did two things, First I installed an over ride switch to lock out the converter, "less heat"
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I have a old th350 without electric lockup. Looks like I’ll just have to go more aggressive with next rebuild kit and a second cooler. My stall is 2000-2200. Looks like I have to except running autos high in the rpm to keep them happy likes 4k and up
 
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What is your cooling situation? Just a stand alone cooler or do you have it in the rad too? Lots of people seem to shy away from having an in rad cooler but liquid to liquid cooling is way more efficient than air cooling. I think it can also help with the heat shocking in cold weather too. You don't end up with ice cold fluid then sudden real hot fluid after sitting for 20 minutes waiting for you buddy to get unstuck.

It probably wouldn't hurt to attempt to run a gear lower than you have been too. I'm also guilty of upshifting to keep the engine rpm low but I'm having to retrain myself with my new buggy because with a 2700 rpm stall that sucker makes some heat under 3k. Same engine trans combo as you.
 
I think getting the TC to lock up is key to preventing the heat, I don't know what your options are on the TH350 to make that happen though.

Oversizing the cooling and adding both in radiator and an external cooler would probably help get rid of the heat.

My TC only locks up in OD or 3rd when OD is turned off. I often find myself with the Transfer case in low with the .69 overdrive on.:homer: Sounds dumb but it's the lugging in lower trans gears that build heat in my rig's trans. I wonder if there is a practical RPM limit for the NP241OR in low gear?:homer:
 
crazybluerider said:
What is your cooling situation?
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Just a stand-alone 12tube with e-fan. I have a 30 row that hadn’t been put in yet, and I have an opening to run threw my aluminum rad. I’ll try that next time.

This was the first automatic I’ve built. I probably went a little to mild on the build, I was just hoping to keep the mini van more factory feeling. Looks like I’ll go manual valve body, up the line pressure and get another rebuild kit.
 

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Sidekicktodd said:
Just a stand-alone 12tube with e-fan. I have a 30 row that hadn’t been put in yet, and I have an opening to run threw my aluminum rad. I’ll try that next time.

This was the first automatic I’ve built. I probably went a little to mild on the build, I was just hoping to keep the mini van more factory feeling. Looks like I’ll go manual valve body, up the line pressure and get another rebuild kit.
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If you are going manual valve body I have a turbo action cheetah VB with engine braking in all gears that I ended up with I'd make you a sweet deal on.



Part number 23252
 
crazybluerider said:
It probably wouldn't hurt to attempt to run a gear lower than you have been too. I'm also guilty of upshifting to keep the engine rpm low but I'm having to retrain myself with my new buggy because with a 2700 rpm stall that sucker makes some heat under 3k. Same engine trans combo as you.
Click to expand...

I usually run in 4 low and 2nd or 3rd when snow wheeling. If it's just bombing through powder with little effort then I keep the revs down shifting up to 3rd or 4th. and thing else it's dropping a gear.

It seems a lot of people lug the engine and trans. I do have the option for a lock on the AW4 but I don't have it done yet.
 
Weasel said:
It seems a lot of people lug the engine and trans.
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We've all been trained to hear "proper" RPM by our daily drivers, however that RPM range was mostly dictated by fuel economy and the EPA, not powerband and parts strain. Older people that started driving before the age of excess HP and overdrives probably don't have as much problem keeping these things in the right gear.
 
Sound
Sidekicktodd said:
I have a old th350 without electric lockup. Looks like I’ll just have to go more aggressive with next rebuild kit and a second cooler. My stall is 2000-2200. Looks like I have to except running autos high in the rpm to keep them happy likes 4k and up
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Anything that gets the converter locked will help with cooling, even if you have to drop a gear, or go low range,
Or like others have said, step up a size or two on the cooler,
I know different trucks, different setups, but even with a decent plate cooler, mine drops significantly when the TC is locked.

Good luck
 
total newb said:
The guy that had the cameleon buggy did an artical year ago saying the biggest issue with snow running was heat.

Snow is way harder on trans than you think, especialy bombing through it.

And its a th350, what did you think was gona happen!?

One thing ive wanted to do but never got around to is use an a/c condensor as a trans cooler. Large surface a med diam tubes
Click to expand...
I'm amazed the TH350 in the 79 K10 my Dad bought around 1985 has never been touched.
He dropped the pan once around 1995 when it started slipping. Was so much varnish and shit that it had mostly plugged the filter.

It's been a plow truck in Northern Maine (~12ft snow a winter) the whole time it's been in the family, so going on 35 years.
Couple times we got stuck and it was foot to floor and slamming between reverse-drive.

Somehow that truck held up to many big dumb loads.
Dad added 3 or 4 leaves to the 4 springs and regularly hauled 2+ tons.
 
crazybluerider said:
We've all been trained to hear "proper" RPM by our daily drivers, however that RPM range was mostly dictated by fuel economy and the EPA, not powerband and parts strain. Older people that started driving before the age of excess HP and overdrives probably don't have as much problem keeping these things in the right gear.
Click to expand...

I always figured they put a revlimiter in it for a reason.....I am a toyota guy though
 
AKnate said:
I'm amazed the TH350 in the 79 K10 my Dad bought around 1985 has never been touched.
He dropped the pan once around 1995 when it started slipping. Was so much varnish and shit that it had mostly plugged the filter.

It's been a plow truck in Northern Maine (~12ft snow a winter) the whole time it's been in the family, so going on 35 years.
Couple times we got stuck and it was foot to floor and slamming between reverse-drive.

Somehow that truck held up to many big dumb loads.
Dad added 3 or 4 leaves to the 4 springs and regularly hauled 2+ tons.
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You ever seen an airport fuel truck that was less than 30yr old? Yeah me neither. And all they do is idle all day then get floored through the gears when they gotta go from one end of the site to the other.

Lasting a long time doesn't say much for a rarely used special purpose vehicle.
 
arse_sidewards said:
You ever seen an airport fuel truck that was less than 30yr old? Yeah me neither. And all they do is idle all day then get floored through the gears when they gotta go from one end of the site to the other.

Lasting a long time doesn't say much for a rarely used special purpose vehicle.
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The K10 has well over 200k miles.
 
There was a turbo 350 with a lockup converter. TH350C: made 1979 to 1984

Might take a little sourcing, but you should be able to make a more common 2wd trans into 4wd with parts from your current trans.
 
Do you have a good fan shroud on there?

My manual crewcab would overheat plugging away slow offroad. I had done a hasty body lift, and removed the shroud as it didn't line up anymore :homer:
 
I didn't think there was more than one tailhousing pattern (4 bolt). I'd think you could put your 4wd output shaft into that TH350C and make the rear of it identical to your current setup.

Hell, tear them both down on separate benches and compare output shaft machining. Worst that happens is you still have 2 parts transmissions.


Then your flavor of vacuum switch, brake switch, and/or toggle switch to get it to lock up.
 
What's everyone's thoughts on the 4l60e vs the th350? In his build thread he mentioned needing taller highway gearing. I figured why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone and swap a 4l60e in. He even has a built one laying around.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What's everyone's thoughts on the 4l60e vs the th350? In his build thread he mentioned needing taller highway gearing. I figured why not kill 2 birds with 1 stone and swap a 4l60e in. He even has a built one laying around.
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That would solve the lockup problem a well, and a lower first bonus.

I had a 4l60e built by patc in my last toyota build, properly built they seem to be plenty strong.
 
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