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Skidsteer knowledge needed

clodhopper

clodhopper

Get off my lawn, punk!
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
564
Messages
816
Loc
Out on the plains, Colorado
Looking to add a wheeled skidsteer to my madness. Cause even though I have tasks it would be best for, I clearly just need another aggravation in my life.

Generally what years did skidsteers transition from primarily mechanical controlled to electronic/sensor agony? Between the climate and the wire munching prairie rats, I have had better luck with less electronics/wires vs more. Add that to my preference for simple, older equipment, and the thought of punching in a code to start something just makes me queasy.

Looking at the common entries: Bobcat, New Holland, Cat, Case, Deere, maybe Mustang maybe not. I am seeing older bobcats and case to be more common than some of the others. Equally intersted to hear what options to completely avoid or flat run away from.

Someone is going to ask about the budget. Just like an acceptable skidsteer candidate, less is more.
 
My 1996 Bobcat 853 checks all those boxes. Prepare to have to replace all hyd hoses on a unit that old. You did not specify what you want to do with it, IE what size you’d need.
(No mine is not for sale!)
 
Minimum size: Bobcat 500/S250, Cat 216, Case 1835/60xt, Deere 240. Prolly got a skunker in that list somewhere, based on quick google lookups.

cleaning corrals, moving big squares of smashed grass, finish grading, movin stuff, jousting, non-OSHA elevated working platform, practicing wheelies, ..... all the normal things.
 
0ilburner said:
Prepare to have to replace all hyd hoses on a unit that old.
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Tractors are all pre-1965. Backhoe is a 1970. My newest equipment is the mid 80s swather. Replacing hydro hose and re-packin cylinders is all normal stuff. The sun here is brutal on anything not metal. Unhoused tractor seats last about 3-4 years til you risk sitting on wet foam. Hydro hoses often get a chafe cover just to shade from the sun. Wire harnesses suffer greatly, even if afforded protection.

Hose blowouts are easy to diagnose. A worn wire periodically grounding out is not an aggravation I choose to deal with when possible.

The skidsteer wont be used all that often, so all mechanical/hydro and diesel is preference. Coaxing something to life that has sat for a couple five months is bothersome. My diesel stuff and just runs without fuss. The gas stuff and some newer pickups with failing harnesses get avoided and run less and just get worse.:shaking:
 
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Don't rule out Takeuchi. They might still be mechanical controls.

They are good machines in reality.

Personally, I have a basically a hate/hate relationship with Bobcat. All their proprietary bullshit. They've also had electrical controls for a long time. I've had several, they are decent machines, but all the electronics and everything crammed in make them suck.
 
I like my old John Deere 125, its a rebadged Owatonna Mustang from the early 80s. Its currently getting all the hydraulic lines replaced after blowing one of the originals buried in the machine, and the shop just told me the water pump is shot, so they are rebuilding it, but aside from that, its been a wonderful machine for me in the 200-ish hours I've had it. It just recently crossed 1,000 hours :eek: so the original buyer didn't really use it at all for the first 30 or so years of its life.
 
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late 90s to 2000s NH lx565 checks those boxes.
i give mine nothing but abuse.
 
For bobcat, that would be a 743 or 753 series that you’re looking for. The 8xx machines have a larger frame and capacity, but also check your boxes.
 
clodhopper said:
The 1845C is preferred (cummins), but are the 1845 and 1845B a huge step down? How much of a price increase would be acceptable for a C over the earlier two versions (assume all other things equal)?
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It's not the almighty Cummings but I've been pretty happy with the 188 engine in my loader. Lots of case equipment still out there with that engine. Not sure about anything else, all my case skid steer experience was when I was barely old enough to drive one.
 
A Bobcat 863 is a pretty simple machine. However, I also own a Gehl CTL85 (exact same thing as a Takeuchi TL250) and it is a much better machine and is pretty simple (It's built like a tank compared to a Bobcat). Case has some goofy controls that I'm not fond of.
 
clodhopper said:
The 1845C is preferred (cummins), but are the 1845 and 1845B a huge step down? How much of a price increase would be acceptable for a C over the earlier two versions (assume all other things equal)?
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Can't remember all the differences, did a lot of research some years back. I think the older models may have had a bucket mount that wasn't the universal quick attach? Not sure if they had all had aux. hyd. lines either, but wouldn't say a huge step down. The C's seemed to bring about a 20% premium over comparable older machines.

Some people do hate the hand controls, but if you don't know anything else they're fine. :laughing:
 
I looked at a gehl somethingoranother before I bought my bobcat

the gehl sees like it'd be a lot easier to work on, with the engine longitudinal and oil cooled rather than water
gotta yank the engine/pump outta the 773 pretty soon because there's only one bolt holding the hydrostat pump in there, the others fell out and can't be reinstalled in place
 
CAT
Anything B model will be mechanical engine with pilot hydraulics BUT has a mega gay interlock ecm that you can not use a electronic service tool on.

B2/3 will be a mix of electronic engine/electric over hydraulic

C model will have mechanical engine with electric over hydraulic controls.

D model will be emissions + electronic engine + electric over hydraulic
 
Just fixed the last oil leak on my Skat Trac. Rebuilt the Perkins engine and it is great. Regular SSA(?) quick change plate, and 85hp. All mechanical. The parts on it seem somewhat universal and loaderpartssource.com has a lot of replacement parts for the chassis. The Thomas skid steers are built extremely similar although gehl bought skat trac intellectual property.
 
toocheaptosmoke said:
Can't remember all the differences, did a lot of research some years back. I think the older models may have had a bucket mount that wasn't the universal quick attach? Not sure if they had all had aux. hyd. lines either, but wouldn't say a huge step down. The C's seemed to bring about a 20% premium over comparable older machines.

Some people do hate the hand
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I've got lots of hours on either, both ISO and whatever the other pattern is called and standard Bobcat.

Either give my sore parts after 5-6 hours. Either my ankles and toes or my wrists.
Have always felt hand/foot has much better feel and can feather controls easy.
Electric over hydraulic can be hot garbage.
Case TR270 we had was almost unusable as a forklift. Try to move an inch and joystick does nothing, nothing, nothing then BAM and moves 6".
 
2005 New Holland LS185.b is what I have. I'd buy again.

I've had it for ten years without a single problem (other than a few hoses and bypassed the seat belt switch). Simple fully mechanical machine that although I haven't had to hack-fuck away any electronics yet I think it'd be pretty straightforward.

There's the 180, 185 and 190 available in tires or tracks.
 
I hate Case controls.

Either ISO (or whatever) or hand/foot controls.

But after using the electric over hydraulic controls on a Bobcat for a long time, used a hand/foot control machine...that got tiring. Literally
 
2006 is the last year of pilot controls on a takeuchi. i have a tl140, it has done a shit ton of work. i have also had john deere and i own a ls180 new holland right now also. the joy stick controls are cool but i can get pretty good on any of them in a 1/2 hours time jumping back and forth. just try to get the best maintained one you find.
 
DRTDEVL said:
I like my old John Deere 125, it’s a rebadged Owatonna Mustang from the early 80s. Its currently getting all the hydraulic lines replaced after blowing one of the originals buried in the machine, and the shop just told me the water pump is shot, so they are rebuilding it, but aside from that, its been a wonderful machine for me in the 200-ish hours I've had it. It just recently crossed 1,000 hours :eek: so the original buyer didn't really use it at all for the first 30 or so years of its life.
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Yeah that’s an old machine. It uses steering clutches and a chain on tensioners. I’d steer away from this if possible.

Stay away from pre 1993 New Hollands and Deeres (same chassis different engines). They used the axle drive chains area as the hydraulic reservoir :homer: yes so metal trash would clog up the two screen filters and screw on filters to boot. They used one long drive chain in each side of the machine. One chain driving two axles on the right and one chain driving the axles on the left. They used a master link which was the weak spot. Also used a chain tensioner as well on both sides. Axle leaks were common and a major pita to fix. Early machines had no safety interlock system for the operator and I sold one to a guy who got killed by that machine a month later.

New holland / Deere from 1994-1998 were good machines. Weak spot on them was the VW style parking brake. Once applied, you had to push it all way down as it wasn’t spring tensioned to do this. If not, the brakes would drag and wear out. It’s a major job to replace the wire out parking brake pads and disc if needed. The machines will free wheel once the hydraulic pressure drops off after the machine is shut off. Don’t park on a hillside without digging the bucket into the ground. One customer lost his machine on a golf course after he went to lunch. Thought someone stole it. Called the cops and they followed the tire tracks down the hill into a pond where they saw air bubbles popping up.

Bobcat 763 was their best machine imo. Bobcats in that era are not as strong as the new holland Deere for lifting or digging. Bobcats are less stable machines also, reason you saw most of them hauled on the trailer backwards because they couldn’t drive forward up the trailer ramps without tipping over backwards < this applies to case 1840 & 1845’s

Case 1845 is a tuff reliable machine in certain years. I think the C series was their best model. They are hand controls but there are some rare foot pedal machines out there but I’ve never seen one. These machines are not as strong for lifting or diddibg as the new holland / deeres and are unstable machines on hills and grades.

Deere models from 1994-1998 see above. Deere 1999-on. In 99 Deere started manufacturing their own chassis and complete machines. Stay away from 99-2001. 2002 on they made solid machines. Deere unit are good through the C series which ended in 2010. The D series stay away from due to engine issues. In 2013 the E series came out and from there on they made solid machines again. The D series is the first series with pull down bar where prior was a seat belt.

Cat I have no idea about which models are good or bad. Cat wasn’t a serious competitor until after I came back to sell again in 2020. I left in 2013.

Mustang is no longer and parts will be non existent to expensive if you find them.

Now, with all that said remember this, no two used machines same model and year are going to be alike. This is due to maintenance or how it was operated to where it was used at and what for. These things are easily and most often abused. They are the first machine an operator learns to cut their teeth on and it is the most neglected maintenance wise machine out there. If you’re looking at an older machine it will be very wise of you to educate yourself on how to evaluate a machine. I can evaluate one very fast but I know exactly what I’m looking at testing wise. I know how to test drivetrains and hydraulics as well as evaluate everything else on the machine looking at as much as possible. Bucket hinge pins to oil leaks to condition of the seat and tires to paint etc etc.

Never ever buy a machine without hands on evaluation of it yourself
 
Landslide said:
Stay away from pre 1993 New Hollands and Deeres (same chassis different engines). They used the axle drive chains area as the hydraulic reservoir :homer:
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What? No fucking way!

That's easily, by fucking far, the most retarded shit I've ever heard. Biden and Trudeau must have designed them.
 
gunracer1 said:
2006 is the last year of pilot controls on a takeuchi. i have a tl140, it has done a shit ton of work. i have also had john deere and i own a ls180 new holland right now also. the joy stick controls are cool but i can get pretty good on any of them in a 1/2 hours time jumping back and forth. just try to get the best maintained one you find.
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Damn so all those lines going to the joysticks on my 07 TL150 are not hydraulic hoses? :lmao:

The newest Takeuchi TL12V2 is still pilot controls. I demoed a prototype TL11R3 that has electric over hydraulic controls and it was absolutely horrible. It acted like the Case described earlier.
 
Just get the oldest most clapped out cheapest skid steer you can find. That's what I'd do. :lmao:

I picked up a New Holland L785 and have been working on it here and there when I have time. It's 100% mechanical and simple. Had to yank the pumps out and re-seal a few things. A couple of new hoses too. One lift cylinder needed rebuilt. Almost done with everything but a bit of wiring, and then gotta adapt it to a different quick attach system. I'm still leaning towards Euro/Global style quick attach for all the shit I'm planning on ever quick attaching.
 
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