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Shop Truck turned Race Truck SORC Tech in Shit-shat

xr-nut

GROUP W BENCH
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
75
Messages
806
Loc
BFK. Bum Fuck Kansas
Like the title says, I'm turning my daily driver shop truck in to a race truck. This thread is to serve as a q & a for the build and the race.

The race: https://sorcrace.com/

I had a customer come in a few years ago in a pantera. Cool old car. He started in about this "race" in Nebraska that he had done a few times in the old ford and once in a grandprix when the ford was broken! I started reading about it and it being localish to me thought I would try to get in. The race is in August every year, the 2nd week. Entries for the race happen on the first Monday in October, the preceding year. Having gotten to a point this year that I could race if I made the cut, I thought I would send an entry in and cross my fingers. I was told by Becky that 200 entries will show up postmarked from the 5th, then a lottery happens for roughly 100 spots. Either I got lucky or there were fewer entries this year! Anyhow, I am in!
youmadeit.jpg


So with that out of the way, here are the details of my truck. 2000 Silverado regular cab 2wd long box 4.8L 4L60 3.73 10-bolt. Ya ya ya, I know....who races a long box truck? me. So I bought the business back in '15 and this truck along with it. It was dd'd by my then mechanic as our shop truck/parts chaser etc. He retired in '17 and the previous owner and I went in halfsies on the truck and gave it to him as a retirement gift. He died a year later and his widow asked if I wanted the truck back. So I bought it, again. The old truck has 215k on it.

Fast forward to today and how it sits now. I had to put a frame under it, bent in half from rust going up the 2-post a couple years ago. Solid, clean rust free frame. At that point it had all the front suspension bits done. All new pre-bent brake lines from GM, all of them, front to back(I know, who would of thought theyd still be available). The new to me frame had a 3.42 rear diff so we left it alone and that's how I drove it for the last 3 years. I have done the cabs and rockers and put a great condition bed on it. The current wheels are "spares" that gm put under some of the '14 and newer half ton trucks. Free aluminum wheels with new tires are always good.

The motor: I obsessively have been reading hotrod e-zines ls articles. Watching engine masters. Watching Richard Holdeners videos. I had a game plan to net me 500ish horse power. I picked up a LQ4 from another project, for free. Tore it down, sold the heads and delivered the short block to the machine shop end of last year. He bored it .020 and tossed in some LS2 pistons. Balanced the rotating assembly.( i feel that is the best money spent on a rebuild). I picked up some LS1 heads for free(family deal) that already had the trunion upgrades and bigger/stronger springs. Had them freshened up with a pressure test, surface and valve job. Machine shop said the sprigs are good to .850 lift! :eek: Once back here, the motor sat in the bag on the engine stand for most of this year( I got it back in March). I quietly started piling up parts to get the swap done. Trailblazer ss intake. 36# injectors. Holley 92mm throttle body. 1 7/8'' long tubes. Sloppy stage 2 cam. All GM gaskets and head bolts. cam chain and gears. You get the idea. Everything on the motor is new/upgraded. Here it is before the fateful day.

motor.jpg


I ordered a kit from Monster to rebuild the 4L60. 2500 stall, better pinion sets, extra clutches, etc. I had been to the transmission school for GM in KC a long time ago and thought I had the memory to do it myself, so I bought a few special tools to help. It took me a couple days but I got it done. Once in though it was super soft on shifts so I pulled it and took it to a transmission builder buddy. I asked him to tear it down top to bottom and check out my work. The only thing he found was a square cut oring on the upgrade od servo was cut. One of the last things I did, I cut a seal. Doh! Easy enough fix and it only cost me $250 to check the rest of my build out. So it was back in and time to work on the tune. I used Justune out of Grainvalley MO. He sent me a "breakin" tune that we used to put a few miles on everything before the dyno runs. I put two tanks through it and took it to KC where it made 393.2 to the tires. I was bummed, I wanted to see 400hp. Justine(the tuner) asked where I got my gas, said the knock sensors where pulling timing. Looks like I make just a little to much compression now for 91 octane. He said with some 93 it would have made that 400 number and that he thought I did pretty good as most of the guys "building" 6-liters rarely make 325 to the tire. I am sure pleased with how it runs now, its nuts compared to the worn out old four-8!

truckdyno.jpg


So from here it race truck build time.
 
The Build.

At this point, I mostly consider the motor and transmission a done deal. Sure a few more hp would be cool, but instead of spending 6/7k on a procharger, Id rather spend that making it turn and brake better at speed. So below are the areas that I want to make better and I am open to thoughts, ideas, offers(thanks already dirtybird !) etc.

1- suspension. obviously I need to do something. before this whole crazy idea picked up speed, I had a deal with a customer to swap suspension from his truck to mine. He has the same year truck with a ride tech "lowering kit". I have yet to see it, but last I knew a month ago, we were still on for the trade. I am getting the parts, minus putting my stock parts back on his truck for checking out his ls built motor for oiling issues. He is not in a hurry and last month neither was I. I feel like that is changed some for me. The details of his ridetech goodies are a mystery, but he said it has the rear link parts that bolt to the diff like leaf springs. (about the diff below) The front consists of arms and spindles(I think). He has bags for it, but I want to get some coil overs for all four corners. Looking for coil over recommendations??


2- rear diff. when I put the motor and trans in, I had a donor truck that I stole a 3.73 g80 rear from. After putting it in my truck, I pulled the rear cover, doh :homer: where I found parts laying in the bottom. By that point I was dealing with a motor build/swap, a transmission build/swap and a rear end swap. I wanted to get it on the ground/off the lift and put some miles on the motor so I left that diff in the truck. Now roughly 2500 miles in, it seems to be holding together, but I know it is doomed. I have another diff just like it(hopefully not junk inside) so a swap to that would be easy. I feel like the 3.73 gears work well on what few high speed runs I have done, but I have been looking for a 4.10 rear. What is the consensus for the ratio for this race?


3- Brakes. I ran on to a bracket for the front that will allow me to run ctsv calipers and '15+ silverado 15'' rotors. Pretty budget friendly, around $500 all in and can have brembro "V" brakes on the front. That will require a minimum of a 20'' wheel. Already running rear disc on the 10-bolt, are there any bolt on parts to get something a little bigger out back or should I just leave it alone back there?

https://ctsvbrakeswap.com/products/g...ke-bracket-kit


4- Wheels and tires. I am going to be kind of picky about the wheels, I absolutely hate chrome and I do not like big aftermarket clown wheels. I have a dealer account with oewheelsllc and can buy repro wheels from them. I really like the '14+ snowflake wheel. They are only 9'' wide, but will fit under the truck after lowering it another 2''. Tire size is up in the air, tire brand/model is up in the air. I live on gravel so these will have to be put on a few weeks before the race or they will just get gravel eaten. The other problem is getting the front brakes on and a wheel big enough to clear them. A compromise is needed. A tire that is not pure race tire vs something I can DD the truck on after the race.

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5-Weight. As it sits with my 75 gallon bulk gas tank in the bed, shes heavy. Any ideas on making it lighhter? (besides taking the tank out for the race, which I will do.) It has a 35 gallon oem tank underneath, I have a short bed tank I can run, that would save a few #. Other ideas?


6- Timing the race. this part I know little to nothing about. I hope to learn enough to be dangerous from other members here like @XtremeJ
Do I need to buy a i-pad or the like to put gps maps on? I run osmand+ on an old kiacera tough phone on my dirtbike but the screen is not large enough for my co-driver. Any other ideas or things I need to learn about timing?
 
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Congratulations on getting accepted

SORC is a hell of a lot of fun. The town really welcomes the racers

what class are you running? Assuming you still need a roll bar if you are 90mph plus

as you know it is not about how fast you go but how close you are to your target time. Last time we were on the podium in the 100mph class the top 5 were within 4 seconds of the target time. I used to do all the calcs by hand / in my head. Most teams are now using computers linked to GPS

drop me a pm closer to the time. I can probably dig up my route notes. Are they still doing Loup to Loup on Thursday? We won our class in the first year it was held
 
Congratulations on getting accepted

SORC is a hell of a lot of fun. The town really welcomes the racers

what class are you running? Assuming you still need a roll bar if you are 90mph plus

as you know it is not about how fast you go but how close you are to your target time. Last time we were on the podium in the 100mph class the top 5 were within 4 seconds of the target time. I used to do all the calcs by hand / in my head. Most teams are now using computers linked to GPS

drop me a pm closer to the time. I can probably dig up my route notes. Are they still doing Loup to Loup on Thursday? We won our class in the first year it was held

LOL, :lmao: this is exactly why I posted here, I knew someone would have been there done that! I am entered in the 80 mph class and yes I know it is about the target time. I have no preconceived notions that I will do well, I just hope to complete it and not look like a total newb!

I greatly appreciate the offer for your course notes. I have plans to drive up there before hand a few times and drive the road to get a little pre race knowledge. I have no racing experience out side of harescramble races on the old ktm. :laughing:

Loup to loup is still on thursday. No roll bar needed in the 80mph class and can use oem shoulder belts.

edit: this years 80mph class winner had a 80.01 average :eek::eek:
 
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so if i understand correctly, you pick a MPH class and the goal is to be as close to that average over the length of the course?
 
so if i understand correctly, you pick a MPH class and the goal is to be as close to that average over the length of the course?

yes, over a total of about 55 miles,split into two courses. north is a few miles longer than south. Really impressive how close folks come to the target time. Really helps to have a navigator who can math. Not unusual for the top 3 in class to be within 5 seconds of perfect time. I liked running the 90mph (or 120 mph) class as it made the math so much easier. Key is to know exactly how many miles you are into the course, and how far you have to go, and what you need to average to make that happen. Generally we would try to build a little "credit" on the way north, so we could establish what we needed on the run south, and then adjust speed in the last couple miles to hit the finish exactly on target.

Not so easy in a 67 Porsche 912 that could barely get out of it's own way, with no reliable speedo, or mileage. And GPS can sometimes be spotty in that part of NE. We ran that starting in the 85mph class and progressing all the way to 110mph (which felt like about 10mph faster than the 912 was capable of)

Definitely pre-drive the course if you can, 80mph does not sound fast until you realize you are on a narrow two lane road that has a drop off instead of a shoulder. Every year at least one car ends up in the weeds. There is some degree of driving skill needed, unlike Big Bend in TX where you are flat as long as you can stand, brake for the bend then flat again. SORC is way more fun.

Book a room now, organizers can put you with a local family, or in a house in town. Try to do that or camp rather than staying an hour away. Last time I was there they had opened a new motel with about 15 rooms but that sells out fast. Tech can be a big deal, they are definitely checking safety items.

80mph class is a good place to start to get your feet wet. They will give you a max speed. DO NOT exceed that speed, they have several hidden check points, and if you exceed your max speed per class, they will not let you make the return run south. My wife did SORC in the Mini, I think in the 110 mph class, and she was within a couple mph of the 140 (?) max for the class, nearly got parked.

Make sure you attend the rookie drivers meeting, and the main meeting.

While muscle cars are dominant there is a real variety, and all the folks are super nice. I am sure the brothers with the cool VDUB stuff still enter. Also if you are a drag racer then Friday (?) morning is the drag race / timed half or full mile, you are likely to be limited to the half mile with no roll bar I think. We chose to prerun that day while the road was quiet - DO NOT speed during pre-running, the state patrol is aware the race is that weekend, and the Vette drivers make easy pickings.

I have done a ton of racing, and SORC is one of the better social race events on the calendar, and I enjoy it because everyone is amateur even though the competition can be pretty tough.

Quick open road race story - not SORC though.
In the late 90's we were headed back to CO from testing at Laguna Seca, and my boss had an open invite to one of the open road races held in NV. Based in Reno, the actual course was about an hour east, and we ran to the north, with the return journey south after a break. We showed up with the Indy car, mid 90's Lola that we had stuffed a Buick Turbo into. Unrestricted it would put out over 800hp, though they never lasted at that level of power. We showed up in the race trailer, and at those events there was still an unlimited class - go as fast as you dare. The unlimited guys were all Viper/Vette/Nascar chassis with monster motors. Their eyes got real wide when we unloaded the Indycar, as no one expected anything like that. Bill lead a small parade down to the start line once we were unloaded, and the transporter closed up and headed north to the turn around - or so everyone thought.

They made a huge deal about having the Indycar there and gave us the honor of starting first. Once Bill took off from the start line, the officials "discovered" a timing problem, which meant a delay of about 5 minutes before the second car (and record holder) took the green. He really cranked that Viper as hard as it could go, but never got a glimpse of the Lola, and when he arrived at the north end of the course (IIRC it was about 90 miles north so about 30 mins for the really quick cars) there was no sign of the Indycar anywhere. The officials (who were in on the joke) told the drivers that the Indycar had arrived, got tired of waiting, so had loaded up already and headed home. What had really happened was we had taken the trailer about 20 miles north of the start, turned off a side road and parked out of view of the race course. Bill drove up, and we were loaded onto the hauler, and were closing up before we heard the next car pass us on course.

What made the whole joke even better was one of the other racers had mechanicals issues, so never made the start line, but he did see us return with the transporter before half the field had even left. We told him we got tired of waiting for the field so had packed up after waiting at the turn around and no other racers made it to us. I saw some of those unlimited guys at SORC about 10 years later and they recalled being at the NV race where the Indycar smoked everyone. Never told them what actually happened.
 
Key is to know exactly how many miles you are into the course, and how far you have to go, and what you need to average to make that happen. Generally we would try to build a little "credit" on the way north, so we could establish what we needed on the run south, and then adjust speed in the last couple miles to hit the finish exactly on target.

Good info right here, will help me get this thought process going.


Definitely pre-drive the course if you can, 80mph does not sound fast until you realize you are on a narrow two lane road that has a drop off instead of a shoulder. Every year at least one car ends up in the weeds. There is some degree of driving skill needed, unlike Big Bend in TX where you are flat as long as you can stand, brake for the bend then flat again. SORC is way more fun.

Will most definitely do this a couple times.

Book a room now, organizers can put you with a local family, or in a house in town. Try to do that or camp rather than staying an hour away. Last time I was there they had opened a new motel with about 15 rooms but that sells out fast. Tech can be a big deal, they are definitely checking safety items.

Please expand more on the tech part? I think my old truck is sound, but what could they look for that would hang me up? I plan to use my crawlerhauler for the week, its a slide in camper, surely there is a camp ground up there? Where would you recommend finding a camp spot, in Arnold?

80mph class is a good place to start to get your feet wet. They will give you a max speed. DO NOT exceed that speed, they have several hidden check points, and if you exceed your max speed per class, they will not let you make the return run south. My wife did SORC in the Mini, I think in the 110 mph class, and she was within a couple mph of the 140 (?) max for the class, nearly got parked.

The fella that got me started on this path told me about the hidden check points! Good to know about them! Max speed in this class is 120, my old speedo only registers 100, but I can run a phone with a gps speedo.

Make sure you attend the rookie drivers meeting, and the main meeting.

Copy that, will do. They make it sound mandatory in the rule book.

While muscle cars are dominant there is a real variety, and all the folks are super nice. I am sure the brothers with the cool VDUB stuff still enter. Also if you are a drag racer then Friday (?) morning is the drag race / timed half or full mile, you are likely to be limited to the half mile with no roll bar I think. We chose to prerun that day while the road was quiet - DO NOT speed during pre-running, the state patrol is aware the race is that weekend, and the Vette drivers make easy pickings.

We will be limited to the half mile run, but I am looking forward to seeing what the ol truck will do!

I have done a ton of racing, and SORC is one of the better social race events on the calendar, and I enjoy it because everyone is amateur even though the competition can be pretty tough.

I'm super excited to g and hang out for the week!

replies in blue
 
I will be following your progress. I was all set to go to the Silver State Classic last September. Had rooms booked, everything ready to go, then they cancelled it.
I plan on running this coming September if we are not all dead from the Wuhan.
 
Let me know what the truck that you may be swapping suspension with has under it and I can get some info on a shock package. The street grip kit would probly be ideal if you want to keep this on some sort of budget. Ride tech has come out with a lot of new stuff for those trucks in the last year. I'm just down the road from you in meriden if you want to get together and figure it out. Met you a few years ago when I bought the burnt front clip off your camaro.
 
Let me know what the truck that you may be swapping suspension with has under it and I can get some info on a shock package. The street grip kit would probly be ideal if you want to keep this on some sort of budget. Ride tech has come out with a lot of new stuff for those trucks in the last year. I'm just down the road from you in meriden if you want to get together and figure it out. Met you a few years ago when I bought the burnt front clip off your camaro.

Changed your id here huh :laughing: I will get in touch once I have the truck here that has the goodies. Im not dead set on using it, but if I can get it for free then why not. Unless its just shit parts!

What did you do with that front clip?
 
Well it's transmission time. Again. The 4L60 is already slipping in 2 and 4. That didn't last long:laughing:.

so I'm researching 4l80 builds. A big part of the 60 not lasting is the awful shift points and inability to change the "tune" in it. Tell me what you're putting in your 80s to make them live and why I shouldn't put a manual valve body in my dd?
 
With HpTuners you can change shift points in the 4L60E. Took some time, but I got mine dialed in to where it's about perfect.
 
Did you put a larger trans cooler on the 60e? I had one behind a whipplecharged 5.3 on 10lbs of boost for a number of years and about 40k miles and it never let go. I also had 4.10 gears and 295/50/18s I think they were.

I still think the 80e is a better trans, but if you killed 2nd and 4th, that seems like a heat issue imo. An n/a 6.0 that is making 400rwhp shouldn't smoke a 60e that easily.


Edit: Just as an aside, I made over 400rwhp in an LS1 with an auto (stock converter) and only a Z06 cam way back in 2002. A 6.0 with a good h/c package should be knocking on 500rwhp.
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Did you put a larger trans cooler on the 60e? I had one behind a whipplecharged 5.3 on 10lbs of boost for a number of years and about 40k miles and it never let go. I also had 4.10 gears and 295/50/18s I think they were.

I still think the 80e is a better trans, but if you killed 2nd and 4th, that seems like a heat issue imo. An n/a 6.0 that is making 400rwhp shouldn't smoke a 60e that easily.


Edit: Just as an aside, I made over 400rwhp in an LS1 with an auto (stock converter) and only a Z06 cam way back in 2002. A 6.0 with a good h/c package should be knocking on 500rwhp.
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Yes I put large transmission cooler out front. I switched to e-fans that keep everything very cool. So heat didn't kill it. 2/4 band is just starting to chatter and slip in 4 pulling with the tc locked up. I am not willing to drop any more coin in the 60, I drive like a jack ass, I need a tougher option. I am not sure what killed mine, with roughly 5kmiles on it. Other than always driving hard or maybe the apply pin was not correct length, Idk.

And No, no you didnt make "over 400rwhp" from an ls1 and a z06 cam. A stock LS6(which is in essence what you "built") makes 405 crank. Tell me what I did wrong, so that I can fix my motor to find that extra 100hp?
 
Well, the ol truck is back on the surgery table. I grenaded the 60E back in January and have slowly been piecing a built 4L80 together. I bought a stage 3 kit from Jakes and had my local transmission builder put it all together. No 3rd gear and the shift to 2 is not hard. To say Im pissed is an understatement. I'm hoping I can peel it out and ship to Jakes and get it fixed.

In the meantime I have the 4-link in the rear, QA1's coil overs on all four corners, ZR1 6 piston calipers up front with 16'' rotors all done an ready for some test time. This transmission issue is going to run me well into summer and with the kung flu excuses everyone has maybe not even get it done before the august race.
 
Quick open road race story - not SORC though.
In the late 90's we were headed back to CO from testing at Laguna Seca, and my boss had an open invite to one of the open road races held in NV. Based in Reno, the actual course was about an hour east, and we ran to the north, with the return journey south after a break. We showed up with the Indy car, mid 90's Lola that we had stuffed a Buick Turbo into. Unrestricted it would put out over 800hp, though they never lasted at that level of power. We showed up in the race trailer, and at those events there was still an unlimited class - go as fast as you dare. The unlimited guys were all Viper/Vette/Nascar chassis with monster motors. Their eyes got real wide when we unloaded the Indycar, as no one expected anything like that. Bill lead a small parade down to the start line once we were unloaded, and the transporter closed up and headed north to the turn around - or so everyone thought.

They made a huge deal about having the Indycar there and gave us the honor of starting first. Once Bill took off from the start line, the officials "discovered" a timing problem, which meant a delay of about 5 minutes before the second car (and record holder) took the green. He really cranked that Viper as hard as it could go, but never got a glimpse of the Lola, and when he arrived at the north end of the course (IIRC it was about 90 miles north so about 30 mins for the really quick cars) there was no sign of the Indycar anywhere. The officials (who were in on the joke) told the drivers that the Indycar had arrived, got tired of waiting, so had loaded up already and headed home. What had really happened was we had taken the trailer about 20 miles north of the start, turned off a side road and parked out of view of the race course. Bill drove up, and we were loaded onto the hauler, and were closing up before we heard the next car pass us on course.

What made the whole joke even better was one of the other racers had mechanicals issues, so never made the start line, but he did see us return with the transporter before half the field had even left. We told him we got tired of waiting for the field so had packed up after waiting at the turn around and no other racers made it to us. I saw some of those unlimited guys at SORC about 10 years later and they recalled being at the NV race where the Indycar smoked everyone. Never told them what actually happened.
Were you there the year Carl Young crashed his 997 TT in 2001? He was running the Super Sport 170 crash and had a tire failure north of 150. He was with his wife and although they were in their 70's they survived the crash...but barely.
 
I forgot about this, glad it came back up.

Why not a T56?
I did not want the cost of going that route. Plus, a t56 wouldn't last so I would need the t6060 which is even higher cost. But....by the time Im done with this auto I will have all of a 6060 in it. :frown:
 
New stance of the shop truck. Ridetech four link in rear(it was basically free) welded in with QA1 coils overs, 220# springs. Front has QA1 lowering coilovers, 500# springs(I think). I need to crank the rear up a little, it will cut the tires on the bed side now.(or roll the bed side lip, which I will likely do as I have eastwood roller available to me). Swapped wheels with my mechanic, he'll run my old 17s and I needed the 20s to clear the brakes on the front. They are ZR1 calipers and 16'' rotors, using a bracket from ctsvbrakeswap. Ignore the rust rear diff, it is a place holder for now. Playing with ratios to get the right speed vs acceleration.

Anyone have recommendation on getting plastidip off? I think I want to run the wheels back polished aluminum.

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Transmission is back out, heading to builder in Topeka on monday. He told me has built a lot of race 4L80's, his race car is 1480hp to the tire and he beats on his 4L80. This transmision issue has been a real pita. Hindsight what it is, I would've just bought a magnum 6 spd and been done with it.
 
Yes I put large transmission cooler out front. I switched to e-fans that keep everything very cool. So heat didn't kill it. 2/4 band is just starting to chatter and slip in 4 pulling with the tc locked up. I am not willing to drop any more coin in the 60, I drive like a jack ass, I need a tougher option. I am not sure what killed mine, with roughly 5kmiles on it. Other than always driving hard or maybe the apply pin was not correct length, Idk.

And No, no you didnt make "over 400rwhp" from an ls1 and a z06 cam. A stock LS6(which is in essence what you "built") makes 405 crank. Tell me what I did wrong, so that I can fix my motor to find that extra 100hp?

Never saw this post. But I did infact make 405rwhp on an LS1 with a Z06 cam in a 99 Trans Am, but it was through a T56 and a 9" rear axle with 4.10's. I don't know why I was thinking of my Camaro at the time. My other bone stock 99 30th Anniversary Trans Am made 325rwhp. After a set of Dynatech longtube headers and tuning the car made 354rwhp. This was 18yrs ago. None if my #'s are impressive. Friends of mine at the time were making 800-1200rwhp on turbocharged LSx engines. Those were impressive #'s
 
Transmission is back in, turns out that Jakes sent out a trans-brake seperator plate and it was dumping all the pressure. After getting that sorted, it still would not shift past 2nd. After a few calls to the builder, I put a test wire on the B-solenoid wire going in to the trans and forced it to shift to 3rd. So the Jakes box is bad. It literally was bad out of the box, this thing has less than 1-mile on it. So, they are sending me a new one and I will finally get this thing moving under its own power again! :smokin:
 
Sway bars. Should I look in to something better than OE? stock measures 1.4 inches, belltech makes a 1.375, but it is solid. I think the oe bar is hollow? Do go fast cars have them rubber isolated or solid?

And what about the alignment? I will DD this truck before and after the race so nothing that will kill the front tires too quickly, but still make it a little better for the speedy corners/
 
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