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School me on 9" ratios

Next stupid question, is the bolt pattern on regular 9" ring gears the same as a 10" gear works? Any reason regular 9" gears wont work in the 3.8" case?
 
Wfoyota said:
Next stupid question, is the bolt pattern on regular 9" ring gears the same as a 10" gear works? Any reason regular 9" gears wont work in the 3.8" case?
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Same bolt pattern. No worries there. We’ve been running 9” gears on Gearworks spools in 10” housings. The load bolts are in the exact same spot so the spool and bolt pattern both cannot get any bigger
 
Aren't the softer gears also less expensive? Seems like for a trail only buggy that would be the way to go. Softer gears to absorb shock loads. You might have to change them out once in a while, but if the gearset is cheaper and its a dropout third its easier, then thats not too bad.

Also, lower ratios might not put the hurt on the 28 spline pinion like the higher ratios. You may not need a 35spline pinion in 6.20 gear like you do a 3.73 gear.

Thanks for all the good info JR4X!
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
Aren't the softer gears also less expensive? Seems like for a trail only buggy that would be the way to go. Softer gears to absorb shock loads. You might have to change them out once in a while, but if the gearset is cheaper and its a dropout third its easier, then thats not too bad.

Also, lower ratios might not put the hurt on the 28 spline pinion like the higher ratios. You may not need a 35spline pinion in 6.20 gear like you do a 3.73 gear.

Thanks for all the good info JR4X!
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All of that is my hot take. 🍺
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Where are softer gears cheaper? I thought the soft gears were $1200+?
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Big pinion and 10” high pinion are. I can’t remember what page the talk of just regular ol 28 spline roundy round race gears was on but speedway has them for in the $$250 dollar range. If I had time to build my theoretical 9” diffs for my tracker that we talked about I’d be looking here first.


This is my minimum idea of poverty model third

www.speedwaymotors.com

Ford 9 In. Racing 3rd Member Assembly 31 Spline Mini Spool 5.00 Ratio

www.speedwaymotors.com www.speedwaymotors.com
 
I haven't tried to piece together a budget ballin 3rd in a while, lemme see how it compares to your speedway example for fun

Yukon 3.25" case with daytona pinion support, carrier bearings and snout bearing: $355 shipped
9" Ford Yukon Nodular Iron Center Section Case / Third Member - 3.25" - Package | eBay

Pinion install kit with timken bearings and solid spacer: ~$70 shipped
Complete Daytona Pinion Bearing Kit, Fits Ford 9 Inch | eBay

Pinion shim kit: $10
https://www.ebay.com/itm/115683328015

35 spline spool: $100 for lightweight, ~$200 for heavy (rigid) version
9" Ford 35 Spline Full Steel Spool - 9 Inch Carrier - Chrome-Moly Drag Spool NEW | eBay

Billet 1350 yoke: $80
https://www.ebay.com/itm/372643202910

So that puts the build at $615 before gears, which start around $150 and obviously go up from there. Honestly not too bad overall, doesn't feel like the prices have inflated too crazily yet
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Where are softer gears cheaper? I thought the soft gears were $1200+?
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I don't think they're cheaper, at least what I saw on QP's site

On QP's site I don't know if the Motive & Yukon light weight are also softer, or only the "PRO" are softer, but those options are $150-300 more
JR4X said:
Big pinion and 10” high pinion are. I can’t remember what page the talk of just regular ol 28 spline roundy round race gears was on but speedway has them for in the $$250 dollar range. If I had time to build my theoretical 9” diffs for my tracker that we talked about I’d be looking here first.


This is my minimum idea of poverty model third

www.speedwaymotors.com

Ford 9 In. Racing 3rd Member Assembly 31 Spline Mini Spool 5.00 Ratio

www.speedwaymotors.com www.speedwaymotors.com
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For some reason I was under the impression mini spools weren't available in 9" 3rds, or maybe I'm thinking of lunchbox lockers

That's a good deal - I assume you'd just run some custom Dutchman inner shafts for the 31 spline?

I am going poverty on mine, but I think for my application I'd regret a spool up front, otherwise I could have kept mine even cheaper.

I should be into my poverty 9" steering axle for under $2,500 (not including brackets)
 
fl0w3n said:
I don't think they're cheaper, at least what I saw on QP's site

On QP's site I don't know if the Motive & Yukon light weight are also softer, or only the "PRO" are softer, but those options are $150-300 more

For some reason I was under the impression mini spools weren't available in 9" 3rds, or maybe I'm thinking of lunchbox lockers

That's a good deal - I assume you'd just run some custom Dutchman inner shafts for the 31 spline?

I am going poverty on mine, but I think for my application I'd regret a spool up front, otherwise I could have kept mine even cheaper.

I should be into my poverty 9" steering axle for under $2,500 (not including brackets)
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For like my tracker specifically, 31 spline is still more than adequate. So I’d buy two of those. Pull the mini spool out of the one for the front and throw a Torq locker in it.

Aussie Locker XD-45831 Ford 9″ 31 Spline – Torq-Masters

torqmasters.com torqmasters.com

If I were to actually go through with it, I’d be doing some deep diving on prices and possibly build my own with 3.250 cases just because I know I could always upgrade them for later. But 9” has so much parts availability. Literally the SBC of axles. I think you can call a wrong number and still find 9” parts on the other end of the line.
 
JR4X said:
For like my tracker specifically, 31 spline is still more than adequate. So I’d buy two of those. Pull the mini spool out of the one for the front and throw a Torq locker in it.

Aussie Locker XD-45831 Ford 9″ 31 Spline – Torq-Masters

torqmasters.com torqmasters.com

If I were to actually go through with it, I’d be doing some deep diving on prices and possibly build my own with 3.250 cases just because I know I could always upgrade them for later. But 9” has so much parts availability. Literally the SBC of axles. I think you can call a wrong number and still find 9” parts on the other end of the line.
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Shit, that’s news to me there’s a Torq locker for a 9” too… I swear I remember a thread where you specifically said you wish the guys at Torq made a lunchbox for 9”

Would you run those polished gears and go “soft” 28 spline gears in this theoretical setup?
 
fl0w3n said:
Shit, that’s news to me there’s a Torq locker for a 9” too… I swear I remember a thread where you specifically said you wish the guys at Torq made a lunchbox for 9”

Would you run those polished gears and go “soft” 28 spline gears in this theoretical setup?
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That doesn’t sound like me. There are several lunchbox options for 9”. Torque doesn’t make anything for Suzuki axles. Could that have been what we were talking about? Or maybe it was 35 spline lunchbox for 9”. If you want 35 spline in 9” you have to do spools or real lockers. 35 spline won’t fit through a stock carrier or bearings. And 35 spline is pretty much the standard in rock crawlers.

My Tracker, something that started out as joke and turned into something I really like. I would really like to build f/r 9’s for it. The rear would be a standard rear axle. The front would be a custom IFS differential. I would totally use the cheapest circle track parts for it because they’d still be overkill in that application. It’s light, low horsepower and 32” tires max.
 
JR4X said:
That doesn’t sound like me. There are several lunchbox options for 9”. Torque doesn’t make anything for Suzuki axles. Could that have been what we were talking about? Or maybe it was 35 spline lunchbox for 9”. If you want 35 spline in 9” you have to do spools or real lockers. 35 spline won’t fit through a stock carrier or bearings. And 35 spline is pretty much the standard in rock crawlers.

My Tracker, something that started out as joke and turned into something I really like. I would really like to build f/r 9’s for it. The rear would be a standard rear axle. The front would be a custom IFS differential. I would totally use the cheapest circle track parts for it because they’d still be overkill in that application. It’s light, low horsepower and 32” tires max.
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I'm betting he's thinking of the conversation we had about a lack of 35 spline options in the Torq.
 
JR4X said:
That doesn’t sound like me. There are several lunchbox options for 9”. Torque doesn’t make anything for Suzuki axles. Could that have been what we were talking about? Or maybe it was 35 spline lunchbox for 9”. If you want 35 spline in 9” you have to do spools or real lockers. 35 spline won’t fit through a stock carrier or bearings. And 35 spline is pretty much the standard in rock crawlers.
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Probably right, one of those two scenarios.

Yeah 35 is pretty much standard, but I feel like a 31 spline would hold up to that middle ground between Dana 30 sized stuff and not needing full 1 tons. I have nothing to back that up, though. Using that Speedway 3rd for $650 and the drop in Torq lunchbox, plus Dutchman will do a 31 spline pair of chromo inners for less than $400, pair that with a $2-400 donor housing and one of those $60 cut up 9” stock centers and you’ve got a ~$2k front axle that’s decent and should be lighter.

Just good to have options. I’m already down the 35 spline junkyard 609 path but I probably could / would have tried out the 31 spline setup had I done more research before. It would also be cool to find a donor housing that wasn’t 8 lug to keep the wheel size options smaller and lighter overall
JR4X said:
My Tracker, something that started out as joke and turned into something I really like. I would really like to build f/r 9’s for it. The rear would be a standard rear axle. The front would be a custom IFS differential. I would totally use the cheapest circle track parts for it because they’d still be overkill in that application. It’s light, low horsepower and 32” tires max.
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Sounds cool get to it :flipoff2:
 
fl0w3n said:
Probably right, one of those two scenarios.

Yeah 35 is pretty much standard, but I feel like a 31 spline would hold up to that middle ground between Dana 30 sized stuff and not needing full 1 tons. I have nothing to back that up, though. Using that Speedway 3rd for $650 and the drop in Torq lunchbox, plus Dutchman will do a 31 spline pair of chromo inners for less than $400, pair that with a $2-400 donor housing and one of those $60 cut up 9” stock centers and you’ve got a ~$2k front axle that’s decent and should be lighter.

Just good to have options. I’m already down the 35 spline junkyard 609 path but I probably could / would have tried out the 31 spline setup had I done more research before. It would also be cool to find a donor housing that wasn’t 8 lug to keep the wheel size options smaller and lighter overall

Sounds cool get to it :flipoff2:
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I’ll see how things shake out in another year or two. I’m busy racing. As long as I intend to keep that bronco I have to race it. But when the day comes it has to go to the crusher, look at the spectacular pile of parts I’ll have available to repurposed.
 
Bebop said:
Jeep JK outers would be my choice.
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I've thought about it too, how would you handle the tubing difference in OD's? I believe JK 30/44 is 2.5"? Do you know if the inner C has enough meat to get something like a 3" tube in there? Or alternatively I guess you could sleeve the 3.25" 9" housing down to 2.5" and keep 2.5" tubes
JR4X said:
I’ll see how things shake out in another year or two. I’m busy racing. As long as I intend to keep that bronco I have to race it. But when the day comes it has to go to the crusher, look at the spectacular pile of parts I’ll have available to repurposed.
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Is that where the derailing of 2bigs bronco thread came from, your Bronco eventually having to go to the crusher? I didn't waste my time reading backwards.

So we can expect a 4400 Tracker at some point is what you're saying :laughing:
 
fl0w3n said:
Probably right, one of those two scenarios.

Yeah 35 is pretty much standard, but I feel like a 31 spline would hold up to that middle ground between Dana 30 sized stuff and not needing full 1 tons. I have nothing to back that up, though. Using that Speedway 3rd for $650 and the drop in Torq lunchbox, plus Dutchman will do a 31 spline pair of chromo inners for less than $400, pair that with a $2-400 donor housing and one of those $60 cut up 9” stock centers and you’ve got a ~$2k front axle that’s decent and should be lighter.
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I think 9" 31 spline is basically the same size as Toyota 31 spline at 1.31" diameter. If you're going to do custom shafts with 1480 size joints, I'd probably just go 35 spline so the axle shafts aren't in question.
 
Sean said:
I think 9" 31 spline is basically the same size as Toyota 31 spline at 1.31" diameter. If you're going to do custom shafts with 1480 size joints, I'd probably just go 35 spline so the axle shafts aren't in question.
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That's what I personally wound up doing, or am in the process of doing, and my thought process as well. But... it's always fun to bench race.

Aren't you building a junkyard 609 setup too? I'm just stripping / collecting parts right now, once I get to the assembling stage I'll post up in Dan's thread
 
fl0w3n said:
That's what I personally wound up doing, or am in the process of doing, and my thought process as well. But... it's always fun to bench race.

Aren't you building a junkyard 609 setup too? I'm just stripping / collecting parts right now, once I get to the assembling stage I'll post up in Dan's thread
Click to expand...
No, I've got JHF portals and TG housings with cheap ECGS spooled yukon thirds (28 spline, damn it!) for the fronts of 2 cars. Planning probably 35 spline Comp ARB'd 3rds for the rears of both cars.... But, just gathering parts/researching right now since I have a couple of builds to finish before I even start those two chassis.
 
fl0w3n said:
I've thought about it too, how would you handle the tubing difference in OD's? I believe JK 30/44 is 2.5"? Do you know if the inner C has enough meat to get something like a 3" tube in there? Or alternatively I guess you could sleeve the 3.25" 9" housing down to 2.5" and keep 2.5" tubes

Is that where the derailing of 2bigs bronco thread came from, your Bronco eventually having to go to the crusher? I didn't waste my time reading backwards.

So we can expect a 4400 Tracker at some point is what you're saying :laughing:
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Yes but no, I think that was unrelated to my situation.

And no way. If I ever attempt a 4400 car I don’t intend to make it look like anything.
 
fl0w3n said:
I've thought about it too, how would you handle the tubing difference in OD's? [...] I guess you could sleeve the 3.25" 9" housing down to 2.5" and keep 2.5" tubes
Click to expand...
Yes, I would do that.
 
fl0w3n said:
I've thought about it too, how would you handle the tubing difference in OD's? I believe JK 30/44 is 2.5"? Do you know if the inner C has enough meat to get something like a 3" tube in there? Or alternatively I guess you could sleeve the 3.25" 9" housing down to 2.5" and keep 2.5" tubes
Click to expand...

I feel like JK axles get a bad rap since they're usually in extremely heavy rigs, often with guys who can't drive very well. Put them in a sub 4k lb rig and I think they'd be a great middle ground below 1 tons.

I'd probably just leave 6" or so of tube on the c's and make a shim to utilize the tubes on the 9".

Iirc, some came with 3x250 tubes which should slip over 2.5 tube.

AgitatedPancake said:
I haven't tried to piece together a budget ballin 3rd in a while, lemme see how it compares to your speedway example for fun

Yukon 3.25" case with daytona pinion support, carrier bearings and snout bearing: $355 shipped
9" Ford Yukon Nodular Iron Center Section Case / Third Member - 3.25" - Package | eBay

Pinion install kit with timken bearings and solid spacer: ~$70 shipped
Complete Daytona Pinion Bearing Kit, Fits Ford 9 Inch | eBay

Pinion shim kit: $10
New Ford 9 Inch Pinion Shim Kit 6 Shims 5 Bolt Pinion Support Ford 9" | eBay

35 spline spool: $100 for lightweight, ~$200 for heavy (rigid) version
9" Ford 35 Spline Full Steel Spool - 9 Inch Carrier - Chrome-Moly Drag Spool NEW | eBay

Billet 1350 yoke: $80
9" Ford 1350 Billet Steel Pinion Yoke - 9 Inch Rearend - 28 Spline - NEW | eBay

So that puts the build at $615 before gears, which start around $150 and obviously go up from there. Honestly not too bad overall, doesn't feel like the prices have inflated too crazily yet
Click to expand...

This is what is so funny, so many people still think a 9" means big $ when in reality, apples to apples (ie: not comparing a junkyard 60 to a spider 9) the 9" is the cheapest axle to build if you're upgrading everything anyway.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
if you're upgrading everything anyway.
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This is a huge if though. Lots of dudes slapping a locker in a SD60 and rocking out (or the same with their wonton rear of choice) with the upgrade path being basically just shafts and no ambitions for tire size beyond what that could support.

There are no good options for a quick and dirty 9" build to compare to that because you have to address housing and shafts right off the bat.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I feel like JK axles get a bad rap since they're usually in extremely heavy rigs, often with guys who can't drive very well. Put them in a sub 4k lb rig and I think they'd be a great middle ground below 1 tons.
Click to expand...

My friends YJ is gutted and caged on 37s and decently built JK axles. He beats the absolute hell out of it with no issues.
 
arse_sidewards said:
This is a huge if though. Lots of dudes slapping a locker in a SD60 and rocking out (or the same with their wonton rear of choice) with the upgrade path being basically just shafts and no ambitions for tire size beyond what that could support.

There are no good options for a quick and dirty 9" build to compare to that because you have to address housing and shafts right off the bat.
Click to expand...

Sd60s are $1000+ over here

You can get a cad dodge 60, D50 or F450/550 beam axle pretty cheap if you look for a bit. The price difference you save could easily pay for an empty housing, especially if you used a junkyard center like a few have mentioned.

$650 3rd mentioned is the same or less than having gears and spool put in a D60.

Then shafts are going to be the same price.

Yes, I know lots of guys who have literally slapped in 1 tons and welded the spiders only with decent luck.

Like I said, if you're doing the standard upgrades, it equals out pretty quick.

94toytruck said:
My friends YJ is gutted and caged on 37s and decently built JK axles. He beats the absolute hell out of it with no issues.
Click to expand...

Rubicon D44s or D30/D44?
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Sd60s are $1000+ over here
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Because you moved to a shithole where there's nobody, nothing and consequently no late model trucks in junkyards. Not sure what you were expecting.

What you're bitching about isn't an issue for most people.

You gonna bitch about how much gas costs in Hawaii next?
 
arse_sidewards said:
Because you moved to a shithole where there's nobody, nothing and consequently no late model trucks in junkyards. Not sure what you were expecting.

What you're bitching about isn't an issue for most people.

You gonna bitch about how much gas costs in Hawaii next?
Click to expand...

Jesus you are such a nuisance, you have never wheeled, or built anything worth a fuck, so I'm not sure why you even respond to these threads.

I was stating facts, not bitching.

We don't live in the shit hole area that is the rust belt, so one small downside is that some used vehicle parts are more expensive. I'll take all the other benifts of living on this side of the country.

To actually stay semi on topic, if you're in an area where axles are cheaper, the donors I listed would be even cheaper, so my point still stands.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Jesus you are such a nuisance, you have never wheeled, or built anything worth a fuck, so I'm not sure why you even respond to these threads.
Click to expand...

Says the carpetbagging piece of shit who's done what this decade?

Do you even own a welder anymore or did you leave that on the sinking ship of a state you fucked up then left?

9" stock housings are questionable at best for serious offroad use. They're thin and bend or rip brackets off. You should be familiar with this as a Toyota retard but of course you're not because head in the sand is the name of the game among you idiots. Yes you can truss but that's kind of a fool's errand with the amount of care and work it takes to keep them straight.

9" replacement housings are not cheap, roughly the same cost that a SD60 goes for in your shithole. Yes, you can get one, slap a fairly good and cheap 3rd in using racecar parts, weld some wonton hubs and spindles (and probably brakes) on and rock out. But in no way is this cost competitive with just getting a 1-ton rear of your choice and throwing whatever locker and gears you want in the diff. Shafts could be a wash but many people run stock shafts so that could be a point in favor of the random wonton axle.

Up front it's a similar situation only worse because whatever donor you're getting everything from the C out from is going to be more expensive.

A "low end" 9" built only really makes sense if you're building something light and mild and can get by with a stock housing, like the Suzuki shit that keeps getting brought up, or perhaps a roughtly equivilent old CJ or whatever.

For a racer or someone who's gonna throw a lot of coin around committing to a particular platform the 9" has a lot more merit in a lot more situations.
 
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