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Russia / Ukraine thread
- Thread starter CDA 455 II
- Start date
![[486]](https://data.irate4x4.com/avatars/m/0/94.jpg?1700178133){kind=avatar}
[486]
ugh, that guy again?
dont it just make you feel great though, progressing to such a time of progress that (opposing side) are always baby raping nazis and (non-opposing side) are glorious liberators who would never rape babies, nor be comparable to nazis in any context at all
Why would you support opposing side by questioning non opposing side in any manner?
Why would you support opposing side by questioning non opposing side in any manner?
bigun
Red Skull Member
'Smoke and mirrors': Defense IG running more than 50 criminal investigations into Ukraine aid · American Wire News
The Department of Defense is currently running 50+ investigations into all the aid money being funneled to Ukraine.
americanwirenews.com
‘Smoke and mirrors’: Defense IG running more than 50 criminal investigations into Ukraine aid February 25, 2024
The Department of Defense Inspector General’s Office is currently running 50+ investigations into all the money being funneled to Ukraine though the investigations have reportedly produced nothing substantive.
“The DoD OIG currently has more than 50 ongoing investigative matters at different stages looking into allegations related to U.S. security assistance for Ukraine of the type that we typically see in conflict situations, such as procurement fraud, product substitution, theft, fraud, or corruption, and diversion or counterproliferation,” the DOD IG, Robert Storch, told the Washington Examiner on Friday.
“However, based on our completed work to date, we have not substantiated any such allegations, though that may well change in the future,” he added.
Responding to this news, critics expressed doubt that there will ever be any real accountability:
According to Bloomberg, Storch’s office is working with the State Department and U.S. Agency for International Development to monitor the estimated $113 billion– with a B — that has been funneled to Ukraine by the Biden administration.
The auditors have thus far reportedly uncovered “stresses and gaps” in providing assistance, Scorch said. As an example, the audits revealed “incomplete manifests for shipments transferred to Ukraine through Poland.”
“As a result, DoD personnel did not have required visibility and accountability of all types of equipment during the transfer process,” the auditors reportedly said in a June statement.
Yet despite these issues, the Pentagon thus far “has responded well” to Ukraine’s military assistance needs “with the agility to carry out what’s essentially a train and supply mission,” Scorch said.
All this comes after the IG’s office released separate reports last week “on the department’s sustainment plan for Bradley, Stryker, and Abrams armored weapons systems and one on the sustainment strategies for the Patriot air defense systems,” according to the Examiner.
The office concluded that the DOD hasn’t yet pieced together a plan for the Ukrainians to make certain the weapons have long-term usefulness.
“While the DoD is currently working on developing such a plan, the lack of foresight in this matter is concerning, and should be rectified promptly,” Scorch reportedly said.
Pentagon deputy spokesperson Sabrina Singh meanwhile acknowledged last week that the DOD is “certainly aware that we could be doing more.”
“We have sent unprecedented security assistance to Ukraine at such a rapid rate. And Ukraine is right now, modernizing its military in the middle of a war,” she told reporters.
“On top of that, we don’t have boots on the ground in Ukraine. We don’t have people out in the field being able to do sustain — sustainment and maintenance alongside the Ukrainians, so we do offer tele-support, but again, we’re not on the ground,” she added.
All this also comes amid a separate investigation launched by the Republican-led House Oversight Committee.
“The Committee remains concerned about the Department of Defense’s (DoD) ability to conduct end-use monitoring of weapons, equipment, and other defense articles going to Ukraine,” the committee’s Republican members announced earlier this month.
“It is vital that DoD works to ensure weapons and other forms of security assistance are used for their intended purposes, that they do not fall into the hands of our enemies, and that the risk of waste, fraud, and abuse is mitigated. The Committee is seeking further documents and information to understand how DoD intends to ensure adequate oversight of defense articles for Ukraine in light of a recent Inspector General report casting doubt on DoD’s prior assurances to the Committee,” they added.
The Ukrainians for their part aren’t helping much because they’re too busy fighting.
“They acknowledge that they are fighting a two-front battle,” one senior official in the office of the Defense Department Inspector General told Defense One last year. “They are fighting the Russians and they were fighting internal corruption.”
bigun
Red Skull Member
Zelensky Floats Possible Peace Summit With Russia - American Liberty News
Over the weekend, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted that he hopes to submit a peace proposal to Russia this spring. The announcement comes amid a grinding war of attrition which Zelensky claimed has killed 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers; the first updated figure from Kyiv in over a...
americanliberty.news
Zelensky Floats Possible Peace Summit With Russia
Over the weekend, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted that he hopes to submit a peace proposal to Russia this spring. The announcement comes amid a grinding war of attrition which Zelensky claimed has killed 31,000 Ukrainian soldiers; the first updated figure from Kyiv in over a year. U.S. officials estimate that number is closer to 70,000.
Zelensky's remarks came during a conference coinciding with the second anniversary of Russia's full-scale invasion.
NBC News' Chief Foreign Correspondent Richard Engel described the conference as a “reboot.” Speaking to his nation on Saturday, Zelensky urged the Ukrainian people to stay strong. Mostly, Engel noted, the mantra from government leaders in Kyiv is that “they need weapons and they need them now,” if they hope to regain the strategic initiative before discussing a negotiated peace.
CNN has more:
Ukraine started 2024 on a rocky footing. Faced with encirclement, Ukrainian forces fled the destroyed city of Avdiivka. Western officials concluded the city's defenses collapsed because there was not enough ammunition to protect it.
While grappling with the defeat, Zelensky said that he felt more optimistic after speaking with U.S. House Speaker Mike Johnson about the stalled $60 billion military aid package.
Sandy Johnson
Harry Member
Just because they're rednecks or Russian doesn't mean they're not well educated.
Yota Up
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"peace summit" = surrender
bigun
Red Skull Member
They had a peace agremant ready to sign except the former brit prime minister stopped it. Carlson wanted to interview him and Boris wanted a million dollars to speak to him
east_beast
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We really fucked the Ukrainians. Not Zelensky, the actual average Joe Ukrainians. They had a peace deal ready to go and we sent our errands boy Boris Johnson to scuttle it. Our constant supply of weapons and juicing them up with promises of support to the very end led them to engage in a hopeless fight. We just used Ukrainians as cannon fodder in our proxy war with Russia. I love America, but our political leaders are evil fucking bastards and I honestly don't blame a lot of the world for hating us. We'd hate us if some other country did is like we do much of the rest of the world.
arse_sidewards
Contrary to my ass
Eh, the Ukrainians are more than happy to get dead trying to kill Russians so long as we pick up the range day tab.
Yeah, probably, but. How many have fighting age have fled the country ?
east_beast
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Nearly a million from what I've seen.
Provience
Kill!
Ehhh......not convinced
Provience
Kill!
Gotta be more than that, 6 million or so "refugees"
Doesn't help that Germany pays them more than working to be a refugee
east_beast
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Gotta be more than that, 6 million or so "refugees"
Doesn't help that Germany pays them more than working to be a refugee
Probably. I mean, our official claim is that Ukraine has lost 70k soldiers. Hell, their official claim is half of that. Meanwhile, the average age of their soldiers is pushing 50. Something doesn't add up.
Provience
Kill!
There is a whole bunch of experience that was brought back in to run the management side.
Retirees recalled to service for training and the like.
Lawless
A turd in the herd
We have a big group of fighting age refugees here in town. Nice enough people but I haven't found one yet who wants to stick around once the war ends. Turns out they're all home, land and business owners who fled not because of the fighting nearby but because they don't wanna end up as cannon fodder somewhere.
I was watching the news a little bit ago and yes the UKR is claiming around 35K dead but good ol' President Z is saying it's gonna be millions dead by mid summer if Uncle Sam don't start coughing up a lot more $$$
east_beast
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We have a big group of fighting age refugees here in town. Nice enough people but I haven't found one yet who wants to stick around once the war ends. Turns out they're all home, land and business owners who fled not because of the fighting nearby but because they don't wanna end up as cannon fodder somewhere.
I was watching the news a little bit ago and yes the UKR is claiming around 35K dead but good ol' President Z is saying it's gonna be millions dead by mid summer if Uncle Sam don't start coughing up a lot more $$$
Before the war, it was widely accepted that Ukraine was the most corrupt country in Europe. Since the invasion now they've somehow magically become a bastion of democracy. It's laughable. They're grifting their asses off and we know it but we don't care because we are too. When I say "we" here I mean the leadership class.
gladman
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is it possible that they are corrupt (as a nation, whatever that actually means in a modern world) but still love and want to protect their country and people and fight the Russians who they are not fond of? And is it also possible that the west (the US & Europe) see Ukraine as strategic to their own needs and so are willing to provide weapons, food, funds so that THEY don't have to pick up a weapon and have to deal with actually fighting directly with Russia with all that could lead to.)
Is it also possible that like Reagan's strategy to exhaust Russia (then USSR) and lead them to major changes (the breakup of USSR etc) the war in Ukraine is using up what appears to be scant Russian resources and costing them dollars they cannot afford to spend?
I saw some numbers that suggest that using our monies to provide Ukraine with the ability to engage Russia is actually inexpensive given the effect it is having on Russia.
People lost their shit over the complete nonsense that 'Star Wars' was until years later when it was learned the Russians believed it worked and they bankrupted their country out of fear of it....
east_beast
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Is it possible that our leaders (Russia's too) are a bunch of boomers who are products of the Cold War era and just don't know anything different? As for our leadership, I'm out of sympathetic "is it possible that" scenarios. They lied us into Vietnam. They lied us I to Iraq twice. They lied us into Afghanistan for 20 years. They lie us into war after war after war. Odds are that they're lying again.
gladman
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If our motivations (US) are to exhaust russia, deplete their resources and ignore Ukraines corrupt past, they are already lying (like we did with Star Wars etc)
We know that leaders lie all the time (on all sides and in every republic) as part of their interpretation of protecting the republic.
We know that people don't actually want the truth... they want narrative and they want to root for a 'team' and will overlook facts all day long in order to have the fairy tale they desire.
From a protection of the realm perspective, if getting ukraine to eat lead to benefit the US would we be against that?
A weakened Russia, a weakened China, a weakened Iran, and a grateful Europe is probably to our overall advantage (from my decrepit boomer standpoint.)
I'm not sympathetic, I'm just trying to see what is transpiring without worrying about the narrative that I would choose.
Sandy Johnson
Harry Member
Either way, Russia is a competitor of the US and not a ally. Individual Russians? sure, we could probably be friends. Russia as a nation- not so much. They probably feel the same way about the US.
Got this little advisory at work today:
east_beast
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Sure, they're an adversary. Absolutely. Does that mean we should be sending $100B+ to a highly corrupt eastern European country that 0.1% of Americans could've found on a globe before this war and who we have absolutely no defense treaty obligations toward? The answer is easy for me. Fuck no.
east_beast
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How does it help us? I fully understand how it helps the MIC and political class. They're making a metric shit ton of money off of this. How does it help an average Joe like you or me? It's driving inflation. It's driving up shipping costs. It's causing food shortages that impact the global market. You and me are getting hurt to fill the coffers of the shot callers and Ukrainian and Russian peasants are dying in droves. We're all just pawns on the chessboard of the elites. That's the sad reality. Us American pawns are just fortunate enough to be a lot better off than most of the lawns around the globe.
Sandy Johnson
Harry Member
From where we sit, it looks like there has to be a better way as well, but I'm also willing to say I'm not privy to all the information.
Remember when Obama was first running for president and he made a big deal about pulling our troops out of Iraq and Afghanistan because every liberal voter he had was against all the "wars Bush and the war-mongering Republicans started"?
Then he won the election and did the thing where the incoming president spends two weeks being briefed about what's going on to get them ready for their job. He came out of that 2 week information session and immediately changed his tone. Suddenly we were only pulling out of Iraq but definitely NOT Afghanistan.
I wouldn't be surprised if even if Trump won the next election, he doesn't come out of that briefing and say we need to continue to support Ukraine in some capacity.
Not saying for sure, but its possible we don't know what's going on behind the scenes.
east_beast
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Obama was a grifter like most politicians. They run on promises they either never intended to fulfill or they realized they had limited ability to fulfill them and/or they just weren't willing to prioritize it. The last POTUS we had who really got in the way of the MIC got his head splattered across an American highway in broad daylight. I don't think for a moment that didn't send a strong message.
Sandy Johnson
Harry Member
Apologies - my fat fingers hit reply while I was still trying to operate a tiny keyboard. Fixed.
Obama wanted to make both happen until he showed up to the Whitehouse and got told by people who where in the thick of US foreign policy what was actually going on.
Wouldn't be surprised if the same thing happens with Ukraine.
east_beast
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Is it what is really happening or pro-MIC bullshit propaganda? Or do they just cut straight to the chase and show you a different angle from Dealey Plaza and ask you what's it gonna be?
gladman
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We had an extraordinary period where we almost had deflation, I don't think anyone can make a credible case that the money for Ukraine is causing inflation. The broad 'food shortages' thing is kind of a specious narrative after the 'pandemic' where folks were home instead of being able to process foods for us.
I'd totally agree that we are pawns and that the 1% are doing everything they can to control the world. We completely agree on the main principles. We're just discussing what is more likely to be true as far as the details of how it is going on.
For example, I think multiple things can be true and not in conflict. I think that someone in the 1% can also be nationalistic and love their country, their state, their hometown.
I also think that a person's mind can change when they get more info. This is a very small micro example, but when I ran for our local school board (and won) there was a person who was also running as 'Change' candidate. She was going to do all kinds of stuff as if she would be the emperor of education or something. Many of her campaign promises actually would have violated the law.
So, there are 3 seats open, I win one, she wins one and an incumbent wins one. We get to our first meeting and the first thing you do is raise your right hand and swear to uphold the laws of the US, State and local government. Then we go to private session and we are briefed on several items that were not public but had a MAJOR influence on several issues that the district faced.
This lady just sat in public session pondering how she could square what she said she would do with what she could actually do. On the way to our cars, we talked quietly, she paused and said, 'Should I even do this?' I told her to sleep on it. That one thing she could do if challenged is to say, 'hey, the world was one way when I was running, but when I got in and learned some things, it was another.'
One of our relatives is in congress. From the outside looking in, it is a complicated world full of constant compromise. If you want to get the things you want, you have to do a lot of other things to get the support you need to do them. It sucks. And, in our current state of affairs, you are always running.
I think the average ukrainian probably does not want to be part of russia. I think the average ukranian is a pawn just like me, but, as a pawn, I mostly get to do what I want. Keeping Russia and China at bay are more good than bad, if you ask me.
But, others may think differently than I do.