Rig Building Question

[Lil'John]

My thoughts on doing yotas and 35s, then have the diffs, axles, and suspension ready for toy/portal combo in the future.

Yes from scratch, I’ve got the tub, tube, and some of the axles. Still kinda bench building and getting this stuff out of my head.


That’s something I’ve thought of. Basically do 1 frame and swap axles when the time comes. Granted, I’ll never be able to think of everything that future me would want in a rig, but I have a pretty good idea.

The problem I have with the 'two step' process from 'solid' axle to rear steer to portaled rear steer is I hate redoing ****.

The problem is you will spend a ton of money on a 'solid' small axle to beef the **** out of it. Then go to rear steer and decide to upgrade/replace the whole 'solid' axle.

In my case, I'm thinking of going from a narrowed E350 D60 full float to SD 250 axle... my tcase is offset so it will look perfect. The challenge I have is whether I can pull off a 38" spring perch to spring perch on the axle The physical axle and 'bolt in' will be dirt cheap relatively speaking. It is the rest of the steering **** that will hurt(ram-I have, valve, and separate elect PS pump)

 

[Stingray]

Future LWB Samurai Bench Building

Started this off in the Suzuki chat, but thought I’d post something vague here to have someone tell me I’m a *** and just build a 1 ton jeep like every other build out there.

Worked pretty good.

hooked me.

Sammy on Toy running gear,

But I'm a Toyota *** so everything get Toyota running gear.

We took my brothers Jeepster and put Toyota gear under it. He was pissed but admits it's more dependable than ever.

 

[bad zuki]

The problem I have with the 'two step' process from 'solid' axle to rear steer to portaled rear steer is I hate redoing ****.

The problem is you will spend a ton of money on a 'solid' small axle to beef the **** out of it. Then go to rear steer and decide to upgrade/replace the whole 'solid' axle.

Trust me when I say I’ve probably spent some time on the Grimm jeepers calculator to factor in tire size to portals, but at that point I’ll probably just want it stupid low and not drive it on the road, and I’d probably still get it wrong and change it anyways.

In my case, I'm thinking of going from a narrowed E350 D60 full float to SD 250 axle... my tcase is offset so it will look perfect. The challenge I have is whether I can pull off a 38" spring perch to spring perch on the axle The physical axle and 'bolt in' will be dirt cheap relatively speaking.

if you’re doing a rear steer axle (that’s capable of 50* or steering), why not link it and get all the steering. I know cost is a factor, but I rub the heck out of mine with semi inboarded springs on the trail rig.

It is the rest of the steering **** that will hurt(ram-I have, valve, and separate elect PS pump)

The new setups have one engine driven pump with an electric switching valve, and it’s more than enough.

 

[Clb]

too vauge,

poll is too vauge..

I vote bacon, and OP is a ***.

What's your plan homo? Are you driving this rig to the trail, is it a trailer only rig. You had to try to give us less info.

You lazy ****, give us some facts.

...
Funny guy.
Lil John has valid points.
Portaled yotas w/rear steer and 35-40" tires in a stretched 105" sammysounds rad for fordyce and con...
Carry-on

 

[KB6Chris]

Budget? Time frame of build?

 

[bad zuki]

Budget?

Hard question to answer with inflation.

Time frame of build?

Probably a couple of years.

 

[Lil'John]

Trust me when I say I’ve probably spent some time on the Grimm jeepers calculator to factor in tire size to portals, but at that point I’ll probably just want it stupid low and not drive it on the road, and I’d probably still get it wrong and change it anyways.

I spend too much time bench building and 2nd guessing myself.

if you’re doing a rear steer axle (that’s capable of 50* or steering), why not link it and get all the steering. I know cost is a factor, but I rub the heck out of mine with semi inboarded springs on the trail rig.

Actually not much of a cost issue. My rig isn't a tube rig or f-toy rig... it is a mostly their full body rig that'll hit the Con. Adding rear steer is more of a ****s and giggles addition than adding any jaw dropping performance ;)

The new setups have one engine driven pump with an electric switching valve, and it’s more than enough.

<snip nice rig>

In my case, it'll be a bit more difficult to add another pump to the engine(Caddy 472). I figure putting an electric pump in the ass end of the vehicle with an electric switch valve should be compact enough. I'm still trying to figure out what electric pump will work. I thought an electric pump from a Durango was the pump a few years ago on the P board. I have part number 52124998ah saved. I'm not worried about having instant turning at the wheels.

 

[Big4x4ride]

One rig for all of that? An LJ on one tons with 40s. You can carry enough camping gear for the 'con. You can run a lot of trails in JV and if you keep the AC/softtop it will be comfortable for most of the year in Moab. If i was starting over, that is what i would build.

Hence the reason I built a JKU on tons lol.

 

[Arickvan]

My thoughts on doing yotas and 35s, then have the diffs, axles, and suspension ready for toy/portal combo in the future.

Yes from scratch, I’ve got the tub, tube, and some of the axles. Still kinda bench building and getting this stuff out of my head.


That’s something I’ve thought of. Basically do 1 frame and swap axles when the time comes. Granted, I’ll never be able to think of everything that future me would want in a rig, but I have a pretty good idea.

sounds like we may need more info, but west coast wheeling you dont need much

with 40's being the new average tire i'd say aim for that, which means 1 ton axles, which means have the power/gearing to turn all that

streetable vs non streetable will answer alot of questions

and budget will answer alot of questions

 

[bad zuki]

with 40's being the new average tire i'd say aim for that, which means 1 ton axles, which means have the power/gearing to turn all that

Why, If everyone is going sd60s, tons, 40's and digging the ruts out for that, why not go narrower?

streetable vs non streetable will answer alot of questions

and budget will answer alot of questions

Streetable, budget is TBD.

 

[Jeffh555]

I debated this with a buddy that has rear steer. Specifically he has a rowdy v8 and rear steer, toyota truggy on 40" stickies.

I asked if he'd rather have a v6 and rear steer portals vs. his V8 and straight axle rear steer.

His argument is that most of his wheeling buddies are in straight drag axle buggies, with a few 1 ton Jeeps/Toyotas thrown in.

With V6 portal buggy you're gonna be wanting to run all the rear steer buggy trails, Arrowhead Canyon at Sand Hollow, Bloody Mary at JV, etc. and be kinda bored on the trails we typically run, Sledge/Jack/Wrecking Ball at JV and 8-9 rated trails at Sand Hollow.

On the other hand V8s are fun no matter what trail you're on. He can find bonus lines to rear steer all over wherever he goes. I suppose the same argument could be made for the portal car, but without the horsepower.

As to your specific request, my experience is that the hammers sucks on 37s, the holes and ledges are too big. It's way more fun on 40s. My friends that built small, light weight rigs with the intent to run 37s, even 37" stickies, have since swapped to 40s.

If you're building something to drive on the street, water and stickies are out. I do like my stickies though. I'm following buggies in my JK, I need all the help I can get.

 

[Arickvan]

Why, If everyone is going sd60s, tons, 40's and digging the ruts out for that, why not go narrower?


Streetable, budget is TBD.

Me and my buddies had a good laugh when they struggled through a v notch on 40's and tons and then i went thru on toys and 37's and didnt even touch the walls

but for all the times you're narrower and miss the ruts, you run into an equal number of times where you can't miss them

same/opposite problem for the sd60 and 40 crowd, pick your poison

 

[Jeffh555]

One rig for all of that? An LJ on one tons with 40s. You can carry enough camping gear for the 'con. You can run a lot of trails in JV and if you keep the AC/softtop it will be comfortable for most of the year in Moab. If i was starting over, that is what i would build.

Hence the reason I built a JKU on tons lol.

If you only need 2 seats, LJ or stretched CJ/YJ/TJ.

If you need 4 seats, JKU.

The best argument for not having a JKU is that you really care about what other people think about what you drive.

You don't need a lot of capability (37s and one locker is plenty) to have a really good time at Rubicon/Fordyce, but you do need enough room to carry food and beer and camping gear.

 

[Big4x4ride]

Why, If everyone is going sd60s, tons, 40's and digging the ruts out for that, why not go narrower?


Streetable, budget is TBD.

How much narrower are you going to get compared to these ruts? just enough to ride with half a tire over the rut and half on flat ground? Then when you slide 1 direction you are already off camber just because of the ruts you were trying to base a build around? Narrow builds arent to avoid ruts, they are to navigate tight and technical trails and climbs.

You came with a loaded question. Your 4 options give little insight to the end goal, with no budget, and no powertrain info. It sounds like you want to mimic a comp buggy, but on a budget just to show that you can do more with less rig which IMO is a plan to fail. Unless you are building a comp specific, lightweight buggy with all the high dollar goodies, smaller isn't necessarily better IMO. Good friend of mine tried that with yota axles, 4 wheel steer, 39" stickies, 22ret and a doubler. It sounded like a good idea, but being on a minimal budget it lacked the quality components and 5 years later has yet to see a rock/trail. Sad part is it started off as a functional toyota based truggy when he started the project.

 

[Jeffh555]

OP said west coast specific. Ruts aren't really a thing here. Holes/ledges are.

I have been embarrassed a couple times when my buddy on 60" wide XJ axles on 35s was able to drive around the rock that my 72" wide SD axles on 40s had to go over. Usually he's getting beat up way more because every hole/ledge/rock is bigger relative to his tire than me.

 

[Clb]

Why, If everyone is going sd60s, tons, 40's and digging the ruts out for that, why not go narrower?


Streetable, budget is TBD.

Slipping in off the high points of the fool sized 40's ruts puts the suck in place tho...
Ex. Snow wheelin, I often belly out in the same track width of 40's.



Definitely build your vision, unless you go v8 power , 8" toyota's and 35's will get it done.
I remember when common though was yota axles are good for 35's maybe 37's....
Today
I dunno.

I'd love rear steer tho.

 

[Sean]

Shocked so many voted portals.

 

[ridenby]

I wheel a long full size chevy. 40" tires. 4" lift. If I was rewinding would go good front springs 2" lift. Portals for more gear. 44" or so tires. East Ky. No desire to drive a jeep nor a toyota.

 

[Big4x4ride]

Definitely build your vision, unless you go v8 power , 8" toyota's and 35's will get it done.
I remember when common though was yota axles are good for 35's maybe 37's....
Today
I dunno.

I'd love rear steer tho.

I think Yota axles are still good for 35-37's depending on the rig. The problem is so much more has changed since the days where that was the common thought. Sticky tires causing better grip, water in the tires causing more weight, rear steer becoming common on these smaller buggies, smaller engines producing more power, and the trails/climbs/obstacles becoming more and more difficult now. Every one of those items pushes the limits of equipment, especially when trying to build to to upper limits of something. Even on bigger stuff, just think of how many people now are breaking D60 gearsets, and even 14 bolts now. 15-20 years ago that was almost unheard of.

 

[bad zuki]

I debated this with a buddy that has rear steer. Specifically he has a rowdy v8 and rear steer, toyota truggy on 40" stickies.

I asked if he'd rather have a v6 and rear steer portals vs. his V8 and straight axle rear steer.
His argument is that most of his wheeling buddies are in straight drag axle buggies, with a few 1 ton Jeeps/Toyotas thrown in.

This is exactly was I was looking for. I'm just thinking this would do most of the main drag axle trails with a "get out of jail free card". Drivablilty would have to be worked out though.

With V6 portal buggy you're gonna be wanting to run all the rear steer buggy trails, Arrowhead Canyon at Sand Hollow, Bloody Mary at JV, etc. and be kinda bored on the trails we typically run, Sledge/Jack/Wrecking Ball at JV and 8-9 rated trails at Sand Hollow.

Would a narrow small tire/ rear steer rig keep up with a big axle/big tire or portal rig/drag axle with the same tires?

On the other hand V8s are fun no matter what trail you're on. He can find bonus lines to rear steer all over wherever he goes. I suppose the same argument could be made for the portal car, but without the horsepower.

Yes, and 10mpg across the country isnt bad.

As to your specific request, my experience is that the hammers sucks on 37s, the holes and ledges are too big. It's way more fun on 40s. My friends that built small, light weight rigs with the intent to run 37s, even 37" stickies, have since swapped to 40s.

If that's the only place where I'll have issues, I think that answers my question.

If you're building something to drive on the street, water and stickies are out. I do like my stickies though. I'm following buggies in my JK, I need all the help I can get.

Skully mentioned a trailer, but I'm not bringing a trailer out there and nascar swapping tires out at every trail.

 

[bad zuki]

Me and my buddies had a good laugh when they struggled through a v notch on 40's and tons and then i went thru on toys and 37's and didnt even touch the walls
but for all the times you're narrower and miss the ruts, you run into an equal number of times where you can't miss them
same/opposite problem for the sd60 and 40 crowd, pick your poison

This is the philosophy I like to follow. I'm so used to narrow samurai's that I still have a hard time adjusting to wide axle rigs.

Shocked so many voted portals.

Me too. But better ground clearance/bigger tires is a pretty good thing. Money is another.

How much narrower are you going to get compared to these ruts? just enough to ride with half a tire over the rut and half on flat ground? Then when you slide 1 direction you are already off camber just because of the ruts you were trying to base a build around? Narrow builds arent to avoid ruts, they are to navigate tight and technical trails and climbs.

FJ80 is 63" WMS IIRC. with 35-37's.

Slipping in off the high points of the fool sized 40's ruts puts the suck in place tho...
Ex. Snow wheelin, I often belly out in the same track width of 40's.

I'd love rear steer tho.

Yeah, but we don't get enough snow to justify that as an excuse.

 

[Sean]

That is correct. I have a Tundra 67" rear with the '8.4"' that I had originally planned to use with an FJ80 front end I was widening 4" to match for my 4Runner project on 37s. Ditched that plan for 1Ts and 4Ds after remembering just how much I hate leaking knuckles.

FJ80 is 63" WMS IIRC. with 35-37's.

 

[bad zuki]

IMO. Good friend of mine tried that with yota axles, 4 wheel steer, 39" stickies, 22ret and a doubler. It sounded like a good idea, but being on a minimal budget it lacked the quality components and 5 years later has yet to see a rock/trail. Sad part is it started off as a functional toyota based truggy when he started the project.

I'm still bench building the idea. Long term goal would be portals/42's/rear steer, but that combo is not in the budget.
If I build the rear steer Toyota's, I can use those in the portal application later down the road. But I know that a rear steer birf axle will not hold up to me.

Ditched that plan for 1Ts and 4Ds after remembering just how much I hate leaking knuckles.

My 60 weeps too. Less grease though.

 

[Deleted member 1632]

That is correct. I have a Tundra 67" rear with the '8.4"' that I had originally planned to use with an FJ80 front end I was widening 4" to match for my 4Runner project on 37s. Ditched that plan for 1Ts and 4Ds after remembering just how much I hate leaking knuckles.

Trail gear wiper seals and marlin inner seals, and mine are bone dry since 2016. Exception being 1 time Snowy was inside of one of my knuckles, then it leaked but I fixed that and it's birf soup free again

This was an axle I cut the knuckles off and flipped myself and reassembled without a true bar for reference.

 

[Sean]

Trail gear wiper seals and marlin inner seals, and mine are bone dry since 2016. Exception being 1 time Snowy was inside of one of my knuckles, then it leaked but I fixed that and it's birf soup free again

Good to know....though I'm too far down the 1T path to turn back now. So glad Toyota guys have a workable option now though.

 

[posford]

The clear answer is 05+ Super Duty, bob the bed, or shorten frame, flatbed, ect. Rear steer and 42s. Comfortable enough to take cross country and the rear steer will make up for its physical size.

 

[Etyler2]

Never seen the need for rear steer on Fordyce or Rubicon. JV yes, and haven’t been to Moab yet. I think portals and 40s would be perfect everywhere.

 

[Etyler2]

I’ll look into it. Ive never heard about it until I joined here,

Do both. Take the week and enjoy.

 

[bad zuki]

The clear answer is 05+ Super Duty, bob the bed, or shorten frame, flatbed, ect. Rear steer and 42s. Comfortable enough to take cross country and the rear steer will make up for its physical size.

I'll shoot you my address. Send cash, I don't have paypal.

Do both. Take the week and enjoy.

Defiantly on the list to do.

 

[Etyler2]

Shocked so many voted portals.

None of us can afford them so we’re dreaming big here.