Replace load bearing wall with beam. My house remodel.

[speed bump]

picture example of an ibeam that has been trussed with flatstock please.

Also, if you're gonna beef up an ibeam, shouldn't the top flange get at least as much metal (if not more) as the bottom since it's in compression unlike the bottom which is in tension? (obviously this isn't the case all the time, but right now we're talking about a simple beam supported at both ends, with a load spread out over the whole length).

It's cold so I'm not walking across the plant to take a picture of one but we have several that the web is reinforced with a piece of 1/2 inch strap stitch welded on. The flange typically isn't where you are worried about the beam in a distributed load scenario so I wouldn't do anything there.

 

[arse_sidewards]

picture example of an ibeam that has been trussed with flatstock please.

I guess it's not technically a truss but you know what I meant. A truss pattern would do the same thing but take more material.

Also, if you're gonna beef up an ibeam, shouldn't the top flange get at least as much metal (if not more) as the bottom since it's in compression unlike the bottom which is in tension? (obviously this isn't the case all the time, but right now we're talking about a simple beam supported at both ends, with a load spread out over the whole length).

I've only ever seen both flanges done in textbook environments (people just buy bigger beams and put speed holes in the web if they need that). In the real world I've seen a bunch of I beams for floors that were augmented with extra material on the bottom flange. That said, all of these applications had the floor tied into the top web thereby preventing it from rolling over. Think of it like a T-channel. Also these were 100+yo factory buildings and everything was riveted if that matters.

 

[mobil1syn]

dumb idea that i see ... why not extend the beam to the outside of the house and support it there give you all the room in the inside? also looking at it i would also build a false wall (in blue) to support the beam eliminating all the mini walls on the edges.

 

[kmkommes]

Can you weld?

Only as a hobby...

I built the frame and axles on this and it's still going down the road just fine.

ly6-nv4500-dana-60-tj-daily-driver-family-rig

 

[kmkommes]

dumb idea that i see ... why not extend the beam to the outside of the house and support it there give you all the room in the inside? also looking at it i would also build a false wall (in blue) to support the beam eliminating all the mini walls on the edges.

The wider the opening the better. If I could eliminate the short walls on the left and right that would be great. I am open to compromise though depeninding on just how tall/wide the beam really needs to be. The blue X wall is already there behind the fridge.

1 change I'm not sure if I want to make is to move the basement stair door from the living room to the wall in the dining room where the blue X wall is. Basement door out of the living room would be a little nicer I think.

 

[mobil1syn]

The wider the opening the better. If I could eliminate the short walls on the left and right that would be great. I am open to compromise though depeninding on just how tall/wide the beam really needs to be. The blue X wall is already there behind the fridge.

1 change I'm not sure if I want to make is to move the basement stair door from the living room to the wall in the dining room where the blue X wall is. Basement door out of the living room would be a little nicer I think.

make the cyan fridge, make orange door to basement. assuming the little room is a pantry?

 

[speed bump]

I guess it's not technically a truss but you know what I meant. A truss pattern would do the same thing but take more material.


I've only ever seen both flanges done in textbook environments (people just buy bigger beams and put speed holes in the web if they need that). In the real world I've seen a bunch of I beams for floors that were augmented with extra material on the bottom flange. That said, all of these applications had the floor tied into the top web thereby preventing it from rolling over. Think of it like a T-channel. Also these were 100+yo factory buildings and everything was riveted if that matters.

That is to deal with the beam buckling in the web not to increase the carrying capacity of the beam.

The other thing I forgot about is doing a wood beam with a 1/2" flitch plate. Should get you down to a 10 inch lvl

 

[arse_sidewards]

That is to deal with the beam buckling in the web not to increase the carrying capacity of the beam.

It has the side effect of stiffening the beam (more of them, or better yet, a truss pattern it would stiffen more). In a house with drywall and stuff you're lmiited by deflection, not overall strength.

 

[speed bump]

It has the side effect of stiffening the beam (more of them, or better yet, a truss pattern it would stiffen more). In a house with drywall and stuff you're lmiited by deflection, not overall strength.

If you are dealing with deflection you weld or bolt flat strap to the web of the beam (ie flitch plate).

 

[arse_sidewards]

If you are dealing with deflection you weld or bolt flat strap to the web of the beam (ie flitch plate).

Trussing acomplishes the same thing. In both cases you're resisting bending with tension in the bottom flange and compression in the top. Imagine a composite I-beam with a web made out of rubber and flanges made from steel.

 

[budget76]

FWIW, in central CT I paid roughly $1,500 for a structural engineer to get me signed/stamped plans for a similar project. I struggled to find anyone willing to deal with joe blow homeowner. Entire 1/3 of the house was supported by this span, so I wasn't messing around with it. Plus, pulled permits for other projects since it was a major remodel and I didn't want to be completely fawked when I go to sell

Possible i overpaid. Possible its regional. I dunno, it got it done though.

 

[speed bump]

Trussing acomplishes the same thing. In both cases you're resisting bending with tension in the bottom flange and compression in the top. Imagine a composite I-beam with a web made out of rubber and flanges made from steel.

Then build a truss and don't fuck around with an Ibeam. An I beams strength is in the web, a trusses strength is in the cords, it doesn't make sense to mix them that way.

 

[MattS]

I knew there would be someone here to answer this and give me the confidence to do it. :)

2 quick questions.

1) If I went with steel vs LVL, what size beam would be comparable to a triple 1.75"x14" LVL? Would it be noticably smaller? I don't think working with metal would be much of an issue.
2) Any chance at recessing a beam with these open truss floor trusses? I am ok with beam below, but had to ask

The existing opening is about 14" beam height. So we have a good idea of what that would be.

If you don't want the beam hanging way down do this. Steel supports more weigh with less size. I'd show you pics of the neighbors but the drywallers got done last month. You should be able to hide the supporting beams in the walls.

Replacing a Load-Bearing Beam With A Flush Beam - Concord Carpenter

Removing a Load-Bearing Wall or Exposed Beam Replacing a load-bearing beam with a flush beam was our mission last week. The client had an existing wood beam with two posts connected to his kitchen island and didn’t like seeing the posts. The decision was made to install a beam that would span...

www.aconcordcarpenter.com

 

[kmkommes]

Summer distracted me. 10 months later I'm ready to tackle this project again. Unless something changes my mind, I'll be going with a steel beam.

Going to span the whole 19 feet and completely bury the beam in the trusses (14" available height).

I paid an Engineer $350 to provide directions to cut and repair the open trusses and provide beam recommendations.

Cutting and repairing floor trusses was exactly as I thought. Cut, add vertical 2x4 at end of cut, then screw and nail 1/2" plywood on each side 4' back.

The engineer's beam recommendations were
4-ply 1.75x14 good for 15 feet
5-ply 1.75x14 good for 17 feet
5-ply 1.75x16 good for 19 feet
4-ply 1.75x18 good for 19 feet (verbal, no paperwork provided)
W10x30 good for 19 feet

Originally, I had the local lumber company tell me: 3-ply 1.75x18 good for 19 feet. The guessed either a W10x45 or W10x60

The engineer said he came up with smaller numbers for calculations but then in the end used the higher numbers provided by the lumber company to determine the beam recommendations which in the end were higher than the lumber companies. Makes me question his math. I really have not reviewed it. Either way, I don’t think my house will collapse with any of the above options.

I decided to get a permit. Permit guy stopped by this week and basically said. "wow, that’s going to be a lot of work". He then gave me the paperwork to write up a plan and get a permit. He didn’t seem concerned about any work I had done so far or planned to do.

A few people tried talking me out of steel because of the weight. But doing this myself 250 lbs vs 750 lbs isn’t much difference. Either way I’ll need to be creative lifting and moving it all.

Now that I’m looking at steel I’m mainly trying to figure out how to attach hangers.
Do I add wood to top of the I-beam then use top hangers? This would require prehanging them and fairly accurate placement on a lot of hangers. Another option for this is to pull up the carpet and the flooring on the 2nd floor. This would not be a big deal. room is currently not used.
Do I use side mount hangers? Requires completely filling in sides of i-beam with wood.
Weld on hangers top or side. I can weld. Do I buy or just create my own? If I need to I have no issue welding in my living room. I have the cable to reach there.

My biggest question right now is does a W10-30 seem correct? I have the go ahead from the engineer but would like confirmation. I can get a W10x30x20' for about $550 (at company cost).

 

[BIG-O]

You got a wood stove in your kitchen? Is your dishwasher cold?

 

[bdkw1]

What I have seen done was hilty guns nailed to wood on the side. Double 10x2's should work perfectly. Then hangers.

 

[kmkommes]

You got a wood stove in your kitchen? Is your dishwasher cold?

Everything was cold.

A few weeks prior to that picture I learned on a Friday how empty my propane tank was. Emergency solution was to steel my pellet stove from my camp and stick that in my living room. This past summer I switched to Natural Gas. Living room will be getting a fireplace as soon as I get this beam done.

 

[kmkommes]

What I have seen done was hilty guns nailed to wood on the side. Double 10x2's should work perfectly. Then hangers.

betterheader.com has a nice catalog for flitch plate beams and I beam solutions.
Better Header Catalog

I thought a LVL/flitch plate beam may be the easiest way to go but figureing out what I needed there was difficult. No support for that locally. I didn't run this idea past the engineer. I also wasnt sure about nail length for hangers so that's another reason to go I beam I think...

Flitch plate option

This is what I am thinking.

 

[Clemson13]

looking forward to the build thread

 

[Gregj50!!!!!]

looking forward to the build thread

Wait….. this isn’t it?????

 

[kmkommes]

Wait….. this isn’t it?????

This is it. I think I need to flip a coin on my options. Today I was back to LVL for simplicity. I'm working from home today and staring at this wall frequently.

 

[MattS]

Most people that pick steel do it because they want the ceiling flat and the only way to get the strength in the limited height is with steel. If you can use a LVL and get the look you want it will simply be less work IMO. You should be able to lift that with one helper and a couple of ladders.

 

[mjlogan88]

Following

In escrow on a house with a very similar layout. I'll be considering doing almost exactly what you are.

 

[kmkommes]

I found this site awhile back which has instructions to repair open floor trusses. I'm cutting the truss in half so essentially it just needs repair. It was pretty much the same as the engineer recomended except he said 4ft of plywood. Seems Easy.

Joist Common Repairs | TRIFORCE® Open Joist

Mistakes happen. This page offers TRIFORCE® repair details for the most common field situations. Feel free to download and consult these common repairs.

www.openjoisttriforce.com

 

[kmkommes]

Without having a hanger in hand I had no idea what the nailing pattern would look like and how I could make that work filling every nail hole as per mfg instructions...

StrongTie has drawings of their hangers online so I dragged and dropped that in solidworks. My buddy sent me the drawing for an I beam and I dragged and dropped that in also.

MIU

The MIU hanger is designed for commercial, high-load and double I-joist applications without requiring web stiffeners and features positive-angle nailing and speed prongs for faster installation.

www.strongtie.com

Looks like this would work well. I just need to fill in the top and sides. Space above I beam here is 2.2".

Sides will be filled in with 3" depth lumber which should hopefully work with hangers required 10d 3" nails.

 

[kmkommes]

I had a friend order a W10x30 x 20ft long. I think it was around $550.
I kept having serious doubts on whether it was the right size. I ordered it anyways. It is what I am using.

Filling in the top and sides with lumber is about $150.
Hangers are $19 each and I need 24 of them.
That's almost $600 to hang hangers.

My buddy said I should just weld hangers on, even maybe make my own. I have no issue welding in my living room.
I have a Millermatic 210 MIG and a Dynasty 280dx collecting dust.

This is what he proposed. I'm sure there are a bunch of other ways to do this. Some may even strengthen the beam.

 

[kmkommes]

Current Status

My 7 year old will miss the gymnastics bar that's been hanging there for 6 months.

The wife is looking forward to new flooring and not living like we are at camp.

 

[kmkommes]

Found this beam at my buddies work for a very discounted price. Should I be concerned about thse holes? They are near the center of the 20 ft section. I could plug weld them if needed... I am mostly concerned about what the inspector may say.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Found this beam at my buddies work for a very discounted price. Should I be concerned about thse holes? They are near the center of the 20 ft section. I could plug weld them if needed... I am mostly concerned about what the inspector may say.

If structure were the concern I'd bolt some flat stock on using those holes.

Since uppity inspectors are the concern I'd plug weld them and do a fresh coat of paint.

 

[non-OP]

footings footings footings

don't think i have seen a reply here about them