Replace load bearing wall with beam. My house remodel.

[kmkommes]

I will probably get a permit. I believe to get a permit I need plans from a Structrual Engineer. I have had no luck finding an Engineer yet. I'm here to figure out options before I spend too much money on an Engineer.

I have started modeling my house in solidworks. I can share a solidworks file or easm file with anyone willing to help.

Basic plan
Remove old walls in Red
New walls in Green
Green wall is 222" long with 24" short wall on each end making opening of 174" or 14.5 feet.
May make opening as wide as 16.5 feet.
Beam can be as deep as 14" and as wide as needed. The shorter the better.
LVL or even a steel beam is an option.
Snow load here is 30 psf but I dont know if that matters because roof trusses carry load to front and back of house. "Should" be no roof load on this beam.

The light blue floor trusses are open style floor trusses 14" tall. They are split on the top of my load bearing wall.
The dark blue beams are existing LVL beams I think. I can only see one side of them.

I am not worried at all about the heating and electric. I will reroute that somewhere...

Where do I start?

Kitchen is long and not idea layout. Will widen it by moving fridge and pantry. This will then be the dining room with a patio door on the right to a deck on the back of the house.

 

[kmkommes]

Basement has a beam with posts every 5 to 6 feet. Basement beam is qty 4 2x10's

No idea if I need a stronger footing in basement floor...

Here is a view from below showing posts and red load bearing beams in basement.

Basement and 2nd floor floor trusses are the same style.

Post spacing view from above

 

[kmkommes]

Some rough dimensions

Same with 2nd floor walls added

 

[kmkommes]

Roof looks like this. So I think roof load is all on exterior walls.

The center room upstairs has vaulted ceiling

 

[kmkommes]

Last post for tonight. I'll check back in 10 minutes for your answers. :)

If I built the wall like this it would be 222" long, with a 24" section on the right and open section of 198".

I could reduce the opening by another 2 feet if that helped a lot. Or worse case I could put a post in the center. I'd rather not though.

 

[dave_dj1]

Our local lumber yard has an on staff guy that will do the calcs for us and specs, try there?
ETA: Microlams full length, screw that 2' PIA wall
ETA 2: If it has trusses full width then that's not a bearing wall.

 

[grumpy356]

Wood Beam Calculator | What size do I need?

Calculate the size needed for a beam, girder, or header made from No. 2 pine or LVL. Covers any span and every load with pin point accuracy.

learnframing.com

 

[Team_Jake]

I'm doing something similar, single story on a slab foundation. I paid a structural engineer to draft up plans and he detailed everything for us, paid him cash, no permit. Do NOT do this without a structural engineer, your house can literally fall down on top of you if not done right. Once you get your plans, you'll have to build temporary support walls to take the load of the load bearing walls while you modify them. Use the right stuff to tie everything together (like Simpson strong ties to tie in the joists to the header, etc). There are many youtube videos that go through the process from start to finish so it's worth watching a couple of those.

 

[kmkommes]

Wood Beam Calculator | What size do I need?

Calculate the size needed for a beam, girder, or header made from No. 2 pine or LVL. Covers any span and every load with pin point accuracy.

learnframing.com

I did that a dozen times and not sure what I am doing wrong.

Interior Beam
Clear Span (trusses)
Floor 40 psf
30 feet
16 feet
19,200 lbs
Lam
4
17" beam

I would hit my head on that....

I am getting other advice from "just slap a 10" LVL up there" to "just make sure you swap it out quick" to "fucking massive beam needed"

:)

 

[kmkommes]

Our local lumber yard has an on staff guy that will do the calcs for us and specs, try there?
ETA: Microlams full length, screw that 2' PIA wall
ETA 2: If it has trusses full width then that's not a bearing wall.

Was thinking the 2' wall wouldnt be that bad because kitchen cabinets start there and run along wall. So they are almost out that far anyways.

The roof trusses are full width but the 2nd floor floor trusses are 100% bearing. They are split at that point. See red label of picture 3 in post 2.

 

[Seubs070]

Talk to a building supply place. Most of them can help you with the sizing for things like this. Most residential stuff is based on span and load tables. Likely no need for an engineer.

 

[kmkommes]

Reply to

I know what I am getting into. New beam is easy. Did something similar when I replaced my 7 foot garage doors with 8 foot this past summer. Temp wall as I moved header, etc...

It is figuring out beam size and then proper load down to foundation.

I was lined up to pay an Engineer $300-$600. Spent some time with him over the last few days providing all my info. He just emailed me and said something came up and he doesn't have time.

I am all for paying someone for the right information. The more propared I am with a plan and knowing options up front the smoother this will go I think.

 

[DirtDrill]

This is pretty straightforward. I have done this numerous times.

You will want a post under the king/jack studs at the end of your LVL and block out the floor trusses. Basically, you want to make sure you have a load path that is direct bearing from LVL to king/jack studs to center beam to post to floor. Otherwise, it seems you have it figured out well. Your drawings are very well done too.

You need to temporarily brace up your second floor. I would personally use some screw shore posts with a header at the top and bottom to spread the load. You can size your LVL yourself, the manufacturers have the data online for spans. The lumber yard will probably do it for you. You are probably looking at something like a double 1.75”x16” or triple 1.75”x14”, but I would have to verify. Keep in mind wood is designed primarily for deflection limits not strength limits and the stiffness of the beam is proportional to the height to the fourth power so depth is much more important than width.

I would be happy to help you with the size of LVL, along with answer any questions you might have. I just finished all the framing on my house reno recently. I am a licensed SE and PE but I can’t provide you with stamped drawings as I only seal for the place I work. I have held some pretty big buildings up in the air in the past though.

 

[jeeptj19992001]

Make sure you basement beam can Handle the point loads at the end. Or is there a column right under the point load?

 

[Gatorgrizz27]

We put one in our house, I paid an engineer $600 to spec out the beam, stud packs, and additional footer. Worth the peace of mind, particularly on a 3 story deal. Think our beam costs $595 or so, did all the work myself with a few guys to get it into place.

 

[DozerDan82]

We put one in our house, I paid an engineer $600 to spec out the beam, stud packs, and additional footer. Worth the peace of mind, particularly on a 3 story deal. Think our beam costs $595 or so, did all the work myself with a few guys to get it into place.

Last one I did for/with a contractor buddy in his house, we used a trans jack to get it in place, with added cribbing as we went up. Laid it on floor in position, build temp walls either side, removed wall, jacked up, secured, and took down temp walls. Could have been a one day deal, but it was a weekend 'help a buddy' job and may have been a few beer breaks/ huddle around the heater breaks.

I want to do it in my basement, but hard to justify the $$$ for the over all gain of just 'it currently annoys me'

 

[kmkommes]

Make sure you basement beam can Handle the point loads at the end. Or is there a column right under the point load?

Pretty close. I can add if needed.

 

[kmkommes]

You are probably looking at something like a double 1.75”x16” or triple 1.75”x14”, but I would have to verify.

I would be happy to help you with the size of LVL, along with answer any questions you might have. I just finished all the framing on my house reno recently. I am a licensed SE and PE but I can’t provide you with stamped drawings as I only seal for the place I work. I have held some pretty big buildings up in the air in the past though.

I knew there would be someone here to answer this and give me the confidence to do it. :)

2 quick questions.

1) If I went with steel vs LVL, what size beam would be comparable to a triple 1.75"x14" LVL? Would it be noticably smaller? I don't think working with metal would be much of an issue.
2) Any chance at recessing a beam with these open truss floor trusses? I am ok with beam below, but had to ask

The existing opening is about 14" beam height. So we have a good idea of what that would be.

 

[speed bump]

I did that a dozen times and not sure what I am doing wrong.

Interior Beam
Clear Span (trusses)
Floor 40 psf
30 feet
16 feet
19,200 lbs
Lam
4
17" beam

I would hit my head on that....

I am getting other advice from "just slap a 10" LVL up there" to "just make sure you swap it out quick" to "fucking massive beam needed"

:)

Your load is half what you used. The other half is carried by the walls.

My lazy person way to spec beams is pick your allowable deflection using something like l/360 then solve the deflection equation for moment of inertia. Multiply that number by 3 and then find a number in an I beam table that's close and has the depth I can use. From memory on a similar problem I'm going to say W10 heavy or W12 will be what you need. Generally that gets me in the ball park of what a structural engineer gives me after analysis.

 

[GonPostal]

If you are going through all efforts of an Engineer (which is smart), put a little extra effort in obtaining a permit.

Time comes to sell your house, you are going to legally have to disclose the modifications at escrow. It's not about "sticking it to the man", but rather protecting yourself should something go south now or in the future.....

 

[Squamch]

I'm doing something similar, single story on a slab foundation. I paid a structural engineer to draft up plans and he detailed everything for us, paid him cash, no permit. Do NOT do this without a structural engineer, your house can literally fall down on top of you if not done right. Once you get your plans, you'll have to build temporary support walls to take the load of the load bearing walls while you modify them. Use the right stuff to tie everything together (like Simpson strong ties to tie in the joists to the header, etc). There are many youtube videos that go through the process from start to finish so it's worth watching a couple of those.

Any red seal carpenter should be able to sort this out using your local building code, unless what you plan to do will be beyond what the code outlines.

Structural engineers are only needed when you need to go outside of the parameters of the building code. Otherwise, have a look at the span tables in your code, which will specify the necessary beam sizes, dependant on the load that will be placed on the beam.

As far as how I would do it, I would shore the joists each side of the wall, and follow the load paths of the shores to the basement. Then I would drop the wall out, cut up into the joists so you can push a beam up between them, jam that beam up there, use bottle jacks to get it dialed as far as height goes, then put the posts under the beam, again, making sure to follow load paths to the basement. Again, the code will specify what kind of a footing you may or may not need under those posts.

No need to pay an engineer unless you're going outside of the building code.

 

[kmkommes]

If you are going through all efforts of an Engineer (which is smart), put a little extra effort in obtaining a permit.

I think a permit here is about $200 total, not a big cost at all. i guess it depends if I need a stamped drawing and am willing to pay or not. It sounds like I need to give the inspector a call again and see what I really need.

 

[kmkommes]

As far as how I would do it...cut up into the joists so you can push a beam up between them, jam that beam up there

That would be nice as well. The issue there is the joists are actually floor trusses so it isn't as easy as just cutting the ends off to make them shorter. It may be doable but I am not sure if it is worth it. It looks like a hassle but maybe I should revisit this idea.

14" tall Floor Truss

 

[kmkommes]

Your load is half what you used. The other half is carried by the walls.

I hope you are right because is the difference of four 17" LVL vs three 14" LVL or two 11" steel fletch plate.

17" is too big. 14" is doable. 11" or smaller I would be super happy with.

 

[NORDFORD]

This is cake. Get an engineer or like mentioned guy on staff at building supply house. Not Home Depot, etc.

I removed 52ft of load bearing walls. Mine was a little more involved though…

 

[Crimsen]

I hope you are right because is the difference of four 17" LVL vs three 14" LVL or two 11" steel fletch plate.

17" is too big. 14" is doable. 11" or smaller I would be super happy with.

he is correct that the load on the center wall will be equal to 1 half the span on either side. the remaining half the span is shared to the exterior walls. crude drawing showing load of the blue area on the blue column and the red areas on the red columns.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Can you weld?

If you're short on vertical space you're going to get much more load bearing capacity out of an I beam that's been trussed with flat stock and had the bottom flange supplemented with something than you will out of a plain I-beam.

 

[Squamch]

That would be nice as well. The issue there is the joists are actually floor trusses so it isn't as easy as just cutting the ends off to make them shorter. It may be doable but I am not sure if it is worth it. It looks like a hassle but maybe I should revisit this idea.

14" tall Floor Truss

Oh yeah, that's engineer country, unless your code specs for those, which I doubt.

 

[IGT]

If you are going through all efforts of an Engineer (which is smart), put a little extra effort in obtaining a permit.

Time comes to sell your house, you are going to legally have to disclose the modifications at escrow. It's not about "sticking it to the man", but rather protecting yourself should something go south now or in the future.....

I knew Karen would get to this thread.

While I agree that a engineer could help in this modification a permit and disclosure in some places in this country don’t mean shit.
Liberal utopia problems

 

[Muckin_Slusher]

Can you weld?

If you're short on vertical space you're going to get much more load bearing capacity out of an I beam that's been trussed with flat stock and had the bottom flange supplemented with something than you will out of a plain I-beam.

picture example of an ibeam that has been trussed with flatstock please.

Also, if you're gonna beef up an ibeam, shouldn't the top flange get at least as much metal (if not more) as the bottom since it's in compression unlike the bottom which is in tension? (obviously this isn't the case all the time, but right now we're talking about a simple beam supported at both ends, with a load spread out over the whole length).