RamRunner Refresh

persistence pays off - just have to summon the determination and patience to see it through đź‘Ť
 
Had a fun trip, the river was super shallow and we got to take the kids in and let them wade around while having some adult beverages.

We all ended up taking a mellow trip because on the second day one the riders wadded up his 450 and shattered his collarbone and scapula. Put a real hamper on wanting to push things.

KKAVSdC.jpg


og00RaR.jpg


RqCwu1Z.jpg


The trans saga does continue, cruised around for awhile and after about an hour we went to jump on the freeway to head to a new spot and she went into limp mode around 5th/45-50mph. Trans fluid was at 150, so I'm thinking she's low on trans oil. Acted the same as the previous time it was low. didn't bring my transfer hand pump so we just turned back to camp. Otherwise it all functioned as intended.

I dont really want to throw parts at this thing randomly so im opened to hearing from trans gurus of any possible leak place inside the bell housing.

The input shaft seal was just replaced, prior to this trip, doesn't mean it held worth a damn but it is new. My limited knowledge would be pointing me to an issue with the TC sealing to the shaft/cracking TC case.
 
Well I think I'm throwing in the towel on the 8spd. Checked fluid levels after the Walker trip, everything's fine, no codes on the TCM, figured maybe it was an anomaly incident (i like to lie to myself).

Went up to fordyce this past weekend, cruised up driveline hill no problem, shut it off for a bit while we wait for a large group of stockish rigs to get to the bowman bypass, fire it back up and it moved maybe 100 yards before it goes from 2nd manual right to park. Lots of ugly grinding. Trans temp is never above 130 degrees mind you. Console shifter is blinking which means TCM fault, pull the laptop out, no codes.....All inputs are reading just fine.

**** with it for a bit, get it to grab reverse so i can stop being a trail block, let it sit, got it back into 1st and moves 5-10 feet then errors back out. Did that from the bowman lake Y to driveline.

Said **** it has to be heat related since it didn't do it on the way in, let it sit at the top of driveline while the boys played in the rocks. Put it into 1st high and party lined the whole way out. Didn't error out again.


Its an awesome trans in the fast stuff, and the super low 1st is badass, but i just don't trust it anymore. When it was "working right" it still shifted into neutral on me coming up WH1, which could've made me roll had I caught the brakes. I'd really like to figure it out one day but for my current scenario, its cutting into extremely limited family trips and im over trading family time for a few smiles in the fast stuff.


Reached out to Jim at ATO since they're local to me about getting a th400 built. RMVB, go back to a winters shifter with the bouncer gate pattern where you can go straight from R-1 with no gate. Have to switch the atlas input to a 32sp from the 23.

As much as i disliked the 727 it never left me stranded. Got that sum bitch up to 280+ degrees coming of the Truckee pass driving around from meadow to cisco, and it still made it home.

I traded performance for reliability, and in a full race truck, id force my way through it. But i want to enjoy my time on the trails with the family, dealing with the 1-1 top gear is a trade off im willing to make for not ****ing with this anymore
 
PM me your e-mail info and I'll get you in contact with my buddy Joel on RCC that also has an 8 speed - his is however apparently working pretty well - maybe you both can compare notes and figure out something to check...

Meantime...yep, '727' = good. I'm running a 46rh in the Jeep and it's just simple and effective, all hydraulic, and no computers, and my OD and LU are on basic toggles đź‘Ť .
 
Friend put the same transmission and a newer hemi in his jk. It's smog legal for California but he's dealing with the same problem you're having. Anytime it gets at any decent angle it automatically shifts to park and throws a code. He's had Chrysler look at it 3 different times and they seem to never find a issue. I was really hoping you'd make some headway on this but totally get wanting a th400 for the simplicity and beef.

I know cool story bro, hope you get back on the trail this summer.
 
Mad Max said:
PM me your e-mail info and I'll get you in contact with my buddy Joel on RCC that also has an 8 speed - his is however apparently working pretty well - maybe you both can compare notes and figure out something to check...

Meantime...yep, '727' = good. I'm running a 46rh in the Jeep and it's just simple and effective, all hydraulic, and no computers, and my OD and LU are on basic toggles đź‘Ť .
Click to expand...

Sent. I really struggle with wanting my cake and eating it too, and just enjoying the ride. Its a life struggle really, im more of an all-in mentality so picking the middle ground option just cuts against the grain for me.

Sluggy said:
Friend put the same transmission and a newer hemi in his jk. It's smog legal for California but he's dealing with the same problem you're having. Anytime it gets at any decent angle it automatically shifts to park and throws a code. He's had Chrysler look at it 3 different times and they seem to never find a issue. I was really hoping you'd make some headway on this but totally get wanting a th400 for the simplicity and beef.

I know cool story bro, hope you get back on the trail this summer.
Click to expand...

I think, from my limited experience, the transmission performs flawless in stock parameters with stock programming. My dad has a 6.4 JKU and before that had the ecodiesel JK. both with 8hp75s, both seem to work great on and offroad. He's gone up all the same obstacles with damn near same lines on the trails, and then drives it back home on the freeway.

Russell at Sound German is an awesome dude, and he knows the PCS product for the 8hp really really well. But I think I'm using a butter knife to eat a ribeye right now. The big block doesn't have the correct digital outputs the trans wants to see, the HP tuners shift tune has to go off crank input speed to output speed to make the shifts right......there's a lot of chef's in the kitchen on this setup and as individuals they've all been awesome to work with, but I'm just burnt out on it "running great" to "well it wont shift out of park"

The th400 is everywhere, in everything, and just takes the beating and asks for more. 700hp is a blip to those trans.

A Stage 1 8hp75 build for 800hp which i technically should be running, will cost me more than the 1000hp build th400, with the mopar bellhousing, and the 32sp input swap in the atlas, and the shifter. And ill have the peace of mind of a hydraulic trans that i dont need to **** with
 
I told you what to do...

75RamRunner said:
The big block doesn't have the correct digital outputs the trans wants to see, the HP tuners shift tune has to go off crank input speed to output speed to make the shifts right......there's a lot of chef's in the kitchen on this setup and as individuals they've all been awesome to work with, but I'm just burnt out on it "running great" to "well it wont shift out of park"
Click to expand...
 
Bebop said:
I told you what to do...
Click to expand...

It's only money :flipoff2: , just dump the 3k in the Sniper 2 and 3k in PCS controller for 3k more in a Holley terminator and 3k more in different (albiet better) trans controller. Plus different manifold, injectors, fuel rails, tuning, etc.

I didn't say you were wrong, but if the trans has a fault of high angle shifting, as mentioned by others in this thread and others in my research, its not the right tool for the job. Doesn't mean i don't like it.

I also can only bleed so much on this truck before i have to stop and redirect. Its a hobby not profitable profession.

Unless you ****s want to start paying to watch me toss my safety sandals on, fill up my glue bucket, and go to town. :grinpimp:



The amount of times I entertain buying a 4 door JK, throwing the axles transfer case and shock package at it, and walking away is not healthy. That minivan v6 would last me all of 40 seconds before i wanted to rip it out though, be right back where we are now lol
 
75RamRunner said:
The amount of times I entertain buying a 4 door JK, throwing the axles transfer case and shock package at it, and walking away is not healthy. That minivan v6 would last me all of 40 seconds before i wanted to rip it out though, be right back where we are now lol
Click to expand...
...yep fully understand the JK part - after 20 years of building big Dodge trucks and for the kind of crawling I like...that's exactly what I did...only I dropped my Magnum 360/46rh/Atlas4/tons/and 40s under it and love it...but my intentions are a lot different than yours. Took me 7 different builds in that time before I pulled the trigger on a big Jeep...and yah I love it...but it had to be 'different' from all the others, and mine is (once you look close that is)...
 
Mopars aren't known for being cheap to put together. The TH400 is obviously going back to the KISS method but if you ever want more gears a GM big block with a 6L90 would probably be less than you have just in your motor man.
 
Mad Max said:
...yep fully understand the JK part - after 20 years of building big Dodge trucks and for the kind of crawling I like...that's exactly what I did...only I dropped my Magnum 360/46rh/Atlas4/tons/and 40s under it and love it...but my intentions are a lot different than yours. Took me 7 different builds in that time before I pulled the trigger on a big Jeep...and yah I love it...but it had to be 'different' from all the others, and mine is (once you look close that is)...
Click to expand...

I started in jeeps ironically, cj's and a yj. I really have nothing against them, they flat work and fit the bill 90% of the time. Once were done with my current house expansion project we've been talking a lot about getting a 4 door jeep for family wheeling trips. She's not the biggest fan of the obstacles the truck can handle, but she loves being on the trails. We're talking about a 3rd/4th kid so its not like it wouldn't been needed. It's only money......

350TacoZilla said:
Mopars aren't known for being cheap to put together. The TH400 is obviously going back to the KISS method but if you ever want more gears a GM big block with a 6L90 would probably be less than you have just in your motor man.
Click to expand...

Sometimes i wish mama mopar never found me. The chevy game is so much cheaper. My c10 made 100 more hp, with off the shelf parts, key turn reliability.


Ill make the BBM/8hp75 combo work before i ever go BBC/6L90. **** id go 6.4/8hp before i went LS/4L80.

I'm always considering buying a blazer, selling off all the running gear of my rig, and storing the chassis for a rainy day and just running a full size on leaf springs and 1 tons. It gets more appealing the more my time gets eaten up......I can't let go of the chassis, its too one off. And it ****ing boogies.


The shock package and axles/tcase alone could fund the whole leaf spring fullsize dream. Keep the 505 for a street ride......

Anyone in the market for some kings and 1 tons? :lmao: :lmao:
 
I'm not above giving a fellow gearhead **** on his choice of brand but not what I was going for lol. Just saying if money is a consideration mopar is definitely starting off on the wrong foot. Truck is sweet and not something you see built but yeah a leaf spring K5 build would be super budget compared to your setup.

I personally hated how common the LS swap thing was but it doesn't take long to figure out why guys do it. I ended up with two 4.8LS sitting in my garage waiting to get swapped in just because they are cheap reliable V8's and get decent mpg for my applications. A light weight 83 RX7 cruiser build and a light weight 97 tacoma DD\camping\hunting trail rig build I want to get into. Keep thinking about parting the 97 and hunt down a 95 tacoma just to get out of emissions BS. It's like the number of 32 fords with SBC's in them is probably more than flatheads just because of availability of parts and reliability.
 
350TacoZilla said:
I'm not above giving a fellow gearhead **** on his choice of brand but not what I was going for lol. Just saying if money is a consideration mopar is definitely starting off on the wrong foot. Truck is sweet and not something you see built but yeah a leaf spring K5 build would be super budget compared to your setup.

I personally hated how common the LS swap thing was but it doesn't take long to figure out why guys do it. I ended up with two 4.8LS sitting in my garage waiting to get swapped in just because they are cheap reliable V8's and get decent mpg for my applications. A light weight 83 RX7 cruiser build and a light weight 97 tacoma DD\camping\hunting trail rig build I want to get into. Keep thinking about parting the 97 and hunt down a 95 tacoma just to get out of emissions BS. It's like the number of 32 fords with SBC's in them is probably more than flatheads just because of availability of parts and reliability.
Click to expand...
Oh your 100% correct, budget and Mopar don't belong in the same sentence. I talk **** on the LS all the time but id swap one into a jeep without a second thought. Or most anything really, its this rig that I just can't come to terms with doing it. It's been Mopar through and through since inception.


06h3 said:
I’d say figure out how to make the 8HP work. Didn’t you have a 3/4 speed in it and hated it and loved when the 8Hp went in?
Click to expand...

I'm giving her a last attempt and taking it to my local dodge dealer to plug in and see if something stupid like solenoid or sensor is erroring out, i have a really hard time thinking its mechanical because on first start, shell roast the tires and grabs gears hard, i just don't see burnt/slipping/broken mechanical parts doing that. The "head trans tech" is actually a decent dude and the service advisor i deal with for my fleet is setting up a tailgate talk so we can refine what im really looking for.


The 8speed swap was two-fold, the previous motorhome motor made maybe 400hp/420tq, totally fine for the slow stuff, but i have the suspension of a 4400 car, the weight of a school bus, and then gave it the power of a pinto. Couldn't get out of its own way. So when i did the 8hp swap it totally changed its capabilities and made the rig a ton of fun in the desert. Now she has a 640hp/700tq power plant and the 8hp speed is still a ton of fun but i think she's got the balls to bridge the gear gap of the 3 speed. Overdrive is really an irrelevant factor for me, its cool and convenient but i've hit 7th gear once, maybe. Never been in 8th. 5th and 6th are the majority of the road cruising and that's 1.24 and 1 ratios. same as what the th400 in 3rd would be.

I'd prefer to keep the 8hp i have a lot of sweat equity into the swap, but not at the sacrifice of my trail time with my wife and boys.

should just buy the leaf sprink k5 and have both :flipoff2:
 
8hp95 from a trackhawk would laugh at this.
 
Bebop said:
8hp95 from a trackhawk would laugh at this.
Click to expand...

Ironically, that's the TCM program in this trans. The track hawks have the same shifters as the chargers (i was set on a T handle instead of that gay ass knob twist in the rams) and 4x4 so compatible with the output speed sensor.

Those ****ers were unobtainium in junkyards 2021, i wanted a 95 from the beginning....
 
Well dealer trip was a bust, the architecture of how the PCM communicated with the TCM doesnt exist so the pathway for their scan tool to talk to the trans isnt there. The trans guy was pretty informative, knew a lot about the 8hp's and we talked for an hour or so about how/whats. Given the conditions were pretty sure a pathway in the valve body computer is reading a value out of range and timing out, or the file itself is corrupt.

Talked with Russell and without a datalog he's just shooting in the dark, going to try to drive it friday/saturday from my shop to my property, about a 20 minute drive, with the laptop hooked up and see if i can recreate it.



Talked to Jakes performance and their build out for a th400 stage 2 rock crawler version with engine braking and the mopar bell housing, frmvb, and torque convertor is less than a rebuilt stage 1 8hp75 from any of the outfits ive talked to so far.

I made the mistake of showing Jim at ATO what the truck is and sent him the dyno graph and he sent me back a 21k th400 build :homer::shaking:. He's the best but the reid case and other spec's will outlive the entire build. Its his ultra4 spec trans. I just cant stomach that for this thing right now.

Leaning pretty heavy into the th400 still, besides a atlas input swap its basically bolt in, still have the winters shifter from the 727 that'll work. probably have made my mind up by monday.

With my luck ill put 2 hours into the truck this weekend and it wont trip at all and act perfectly fine because she knows shell keep getting attention :grinpimp::grinpimp:
 
Was behind on the thread but caught up now. Any luck with trans datalogging or making a decision?
 
ridered3 said:
Was behind on the thread but caught up now. Any luck with trans datalogging or making a decision?
Click to expand...

Yes, logged it with Russell and the torque value inputs the trans is seeing are all wrong. It could be in the valvebody, it could be in the TCM tune, or it could be in the data the PCS is giving.

So basically i didn't get an answer on the "why" but it was enough for me to release the th400 from Jake's. If this was a street ride or something that wasn't the end of the world to jump on a rollback and bring back to the garage id keep pushing, but i just don't trust this anymore to be at the bottom of committee or spider and limp mode me.

Jakes setting the th400 up as his stage 2 rock crawler package, good for 750hp, engine braking, billet torque convertor, FMRVB, and cutting the bell housing off and installing the mopar bellhousing with flexplate. Should like a long, uneventful life behind the current powerplant.

the th400/727/8hp are all relatively the same length (24"/23 1/2"/24 1/4") so i have high hopes the driveshafts will be reusable as they were in the727/8hp swap and the mount for the tranny will work some new holes for the th400 pattern.

Trying to get some commitment from my local group to do Moab the first week in October. Any internet friends want to wheel?
 
75RamRunner said:
Yes, logged it with Russell and the torque value inputs the trans is seeing are all wrong. It could be in the valvebody, it could be in the TCM tune, or it could be in the data the PCS is giving.

So basically i didn't get an answer on the "why" but it was enough for me to release the th400 from Jake's. If this was a street ride or something that wasn't the end of the world to jump on a rollback and bring back to the garage id keep pushing, but i just don't trust this anymore to be at the bottom of committee or spider and limp mode me.

Jakes setting the th400 up as his stage 2 rock crawler package, good for 750hp, engine braking, billet torque convertor, FMRVB, and cutting the bell housing off and installing the mopar bellhousing with flexplate. Should like a long, uneventful life behind the current powerplant.

the th400/727/8hp are all relatively the same length (24"/23 1/2"/24 1/4") so i have high hopes the driveshafts will be reusable as they were in the727/8hp swap and the mount for the tranny will work some new holes for the th400 pattern.

Trying to get some commitment from my local group to do Moab the first week in October. Any internet friends want to wheel?
Click to expand...
Don't blame you there one bit in switching transmissions. Too risky when the kiddos are involved.
 
Hooligan said:
Well, how easy would that HP trans drop into a stock 2012 2500 Ram with the 5.7?
Click to expand...
Engine side will bolt up, no modifications have been made to the trans itself outside of a deeper pan and the atlas adapter. if your going back to the stock tcase you'll need a stock tail housing, the one i pulled of this 8hp is long gone. Its not an internal adapter no fluid transfer.

Unless you have a cam and goodies you may want a stock convertor too, this is 32-3500 stall

Bmxbry9 said:
I could be interested in a Moab trip October. You thinking family trip?
Click to expand...

Yessir, bringing the wife and boys with me. Going to shoot for the 9/30-10/4 as of now
 
Trans shipped from Jake's yesterday, I'm in the midst of a 600 sq ft home addition, and 3 of the biggest projects our company has ever run so my capacity for wrenching is really low. Dropped the truck off at my buddies shop because i want to use that thing this month, and theres no way ill get to it.

Theyre pulling the 8hp and leaving all the electronics for me to unmarry from the sniper harness, swapping the input shaft on the atlas from 23 to 32 sp and looking at my rear main leak, hoping by the time thats done the trans is here (next week)

I was talking with a family friend and his wife at dinner last night, he's been around since the inception of this thing and used to wheel a fj55 with me. We were laughing at how i wanted "better" and was willing to deal with added complexity, and now I'm unwilling to deal with downtime due to my limited availability so swinging back to the "simple" 3 speed.

He asked when the carb was going on, said i don't think ill regress that much :flipoff2:
 
ridered3 said:
75RamRunner how goes the RamRunner?
Click to expand...

Got an update yesterday, i can't seem to keep my boots in Commifornia so i haven't been bugging him. Trans is mounted, atlas on, driveshafts were getting shorten/lengthened yesterday, my new battery disconnect hits the shifter so were spacing it up a bit. (put that in when i swapped the 8spd so didnt think about clearances as the T handle barely moved). Had to keep the crank spacer for starter engagement, i think were on the tailend. I have a free weekend next weekend so im subtly but not subtly hoping itll be done and get the fam up to either fordyce/rubicon for day trip/shakedown.
 
75RamRunner said:
Got an update yesterday, i can't seem to keep my boots in Commifornia so i haven't been bugging him. Trans is mounted, atlas on, driveshafts were getting shorten/lengthened yesterday, my new battery disconnect hits the shifter so were spacing it up a bit. (put that in when i swapped the 8spd so didnt think about clearances as the T handle barely moved). Had to keep the crank spacer for starter engagement, i think were on the tailend. I have a free weekend next weekend so im subtly but not subtly hoping itll be done and get the fam up to either fordyce/rubicon for day trip/shakedown.
Click to expand...
Awesome on progress!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar Threads

RamRunners Shop Thread
Replies
3
Views
348
75RamRunner
Pops blazer refresh
Replies
23
Views
2K
M92PV4U
M92PV4U
Hooligan’s TJ refresh
2 3
Replies
74
Views
150K
Hooligan
Simple Sami Refresh
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
350TacoZilla
350TacoZilla
Willys Jeep Truck Refresh
Replies
4
Views
1K
TX_Jeep
TX_Jeep
Top Back Refresh