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Policing the Police.

Action Fab

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Just listed to this PBS documentary, didn't watch it, I just listened to it.

Seems the problem is a collapse in trust. The cops don't trust the citizens. The citizens don't trust the cops. The narrative paints the issue as a difference in race or a tension caused by prejudice. I see a much larger issue at the root.

Based on the examples used and my own experience, in both cases the bulk of the trust was broken by the war on drugs and anti-gun laws. These two fundamental changes in the duty of our police officers have radically changed the impact they have on our society.

I propose two questions that aim to challenge key fundamental principles of our society.

- Why does our justice system own a monopoly on violence?

- Why does the medical industry own the monopoly on controlled substances?

Every time I examine a facet of our society that is undergoing a serious failure, I find that there are control structures in place that prohibit a natural balance to occur and ultimately lead to futility.

You want to understand why there is unrest? Evaluate the repercussions of a society that feels the burden of futility. To take away a mans sense of power over himself is to take away everything he has to lose.

My wife and I are both well to do white people. We're not criminals and we have no reason to fear the law. Regardless of the fact, we both exhibit a spike in heart rate and a reaction of fear the moment a squad car pulls in behind us. We monitor our rear view mirror and anxiously hope that we don't have an interaction with the officer in tow. I can't imagine how much more fear is struck into those who aren't, innocent, young white kids. We literally have it better than anyone and we still feel the fear. The fear that another individual has the power of upheaval over our lives. The power to instigate an altercation over non-compliance. If I question the authority, I risk my life. So I'm left with the fear that I may be forced to submit. That goes against everything I stand for as a man.

So what do I think needs to change? Is it a race issue or is it a overbearing relationship with those who believe they need to control?

As I see it, we need liberty. Not freedom, not anarchy, not a lawless system, but liberty.

So, public opinion: How do we regain our responsibility?

 

swtfman

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Based on the examples used and my own experience, in both cases the bulk of the trust was broken by the war on drugs and anti-gun laws. These two fundamental changes in the duty of our police officers have radically changed the impact they have on our society.

In my opinion this is absolutely the root of the overall problem.
 
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Fully agree with both of you. The police constantly use boot on the neck tactics because those are the easiest tactics when all individual liberty has been eroded so terribly. If I was President, I would--

1. End the war on drugs
2. Completely gut property seizure practices
3. Reinstate full rights after a prison term is completed
4. Remove all military surplus from police forces
5. Immediately kill all public-sector unions
6. THEN I'd start moving on the financial stuff that would take generations complete--balancing the budget, flat tax, all that stuff that seems so impossible.

As the nation's top cop, I think the President can unilaterally fix items 1, 2, 4, and maybe 5. Or at least effectively fix them, and wait for Congress to catch up.
 

Mr.Ratbastard

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If I were president I would mandate a thorough cleansing of Law enforcement. Every precinct must go through the records of their officers. Any officer with 3 or more complaints(verified legit) of abuse of power is out, put on a nationwide list not to be allowed to work in law enforcement again, ever. Fuck the unions. If there's proof this isn't followed now and in the future the higher ups can be held liable. 3 strikes your out forever.
This officer had many complaints. He shouldn't have been wearing a vadge. Ttat's where I would focus. Get the power tripping idiots out. Deter new officers from going down that path.
 

bigun

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The war on drugs was started after prohibition because the government had manned up and couldn't let people go so if you end the war on drugs where do those people find work?
 
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bigun

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If I were president I would mandate a thorough cleansing of Law enforcement. Every precinct must go through the records of their officers. Any officer with 3 or more complaints(verified legit) of abuse of power is out, put on a nationwide list not to be allowed to work in law enforcement again, ever. Fuck the unions. If there's proof this isn't followed now and in the future the higher ups can be held liable. 3 strikes your out forever.
This officer had many complaints. He shouldn't have been wearing a vadge. Ttat's where I would focus. Get the power tripping idiots out. Deter new officers from going down that path.

Friend of mine once told me if you didn't have complaints it meant you weren't doing your job, because inevitably you were going to upset someone, who would find a shyster lawyer who would be willing to sue you hopping to get into the government's pocket . The problem being people have forgotten that the government's money ultimately comes out of the tax payers pocket. Remember the woman who made the news claiming she was down to get some rent money, when asked where did the money come from she said it was Obama's money he got it from his stash
 

Action Fab

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The war on drugs was started after proabition because the government had manned up and couldn't let people go so if you end the war on drugs where do those people find work?

The private sector. Look, this whole thing is a spider web. Everything is intertwined.

I keep recommending the book Strong Towns. People really would gain a huge insight into the municipal budget problem that is a core issue in our country that could very well be the cause of its collapse.

We have got to get the nations work force off the government's liability ledger.

I 100% agree that unions are a power structure that corrupts the very system they claim to be protecting. They destroy wages by inflating operating costs and decreasing labor to productivity ratios which in turn devalue the overall usefulness of the individual and destroying their market value.
 

Action Fab

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Friend of mine once told me if you didn't have complaints it meant you weren't doing your job, because inevitably you were going to upset someone, who would find a shyster lawyer who would be willing to sue you hopping to get into the government's pocket . The problem being people have forgotten that the government's money ultimately comes out of the tax payers pocket. Remember the woman who made the news claiming she was down to get some rent money, when asked where did the money come from she said it was Obama's money he got it from his stash

The litigious nature of our society is directly caused by the legal system structure. There's a great lecture by Lord Goldsmith on the privatization of law. It's a global problem.
 

Projectjunkie

Whatever
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Some people think my distrust of the police and legal system came from bad experiences.

I was in criminal justice classes 21 years old, squeaky clean, on track to be a cop when ATF agents came in do to their spiel and pass seized guns around. One told a story about having to go seize guns from a guy who was convicted of a misdemeanor decades earlier, did his 30 days or probation or whatever, but his crime was later reclassified as a felony, or made him a prohibited possessor. He said the guy was distraught and in tears, but he was just doing his job. I left that night with a stick stomach.

That's not honest work. I'll buy my own fast car, my own gun, and my own handcuffs if I want to get freaky.

I've had later interactions that didn't go well at the time, because I advocate for my rights. In the end I was vindicated.

Don't think you'll find justice in court either, you'll pay an attorney to trade favors on your behalf. Sitting outside a courthouse watch all the pencil neck lawyers congratulating each other, sucking on the tit of the working man without working a day in their lives. Makes me sad, my grandfather was my hero, he was a state judge, my first babysitters were court reporters in the judges chambers. Maybe it was an honorable profession then, but it's not now.

For profit prisons, conviction quotas, it's a racket.

Out here the suburbs are at the base of the mountains, the farther up the hill you get, the more expensive the houses get. Go halfway, where the neighborhoods start getting gated, $370k + houses, there's a law enforcement car in front of every third house, the median income in Tucson is like 34k. Tyrants always compensate their enforcers well.



Fuck the police:mad3:
 

Roc Doc

#580 Really terrific #
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Out here the suburbs are at the base of the mountains, the farther up the hill you get, the more expensive the houses get. Go halfway, where the neighborhoods start getting gated, $370k + houses, there's a law enforcement car in front of every third house, the median income in Tucson is like 34k. Tyrants always compensate their enforcers well.



Fuck the police:mad3:

Tucson is a weird place. You've got poor-poor, working poor, a huge homeless population, a huge liberal population of teachers, and college kids that don't pay taxes, so it's no wonder the roads are shit, and the parks are full of tents and shopping carts. It's sad because it's a really beautiful part of the world and there's great Mexican food on every corner.
 

Roc Doc

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Tucson also rounds up the homeless and then they turn them loose. Guess where they go? Right back to the same park where they were picked up. How'd you like to be a cop and have that fucking job?
 

east_beast

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Unions and "brotherhood of the badge" are the biggest issues in fixing law enforcement. Fucking unions make it damn near impossible to get rid of bad cops and this "brotherhood of the badge" bullshit keeps other cops covering up for the bad cops. Cops that cover for bad cops are bad cops themselves.
 

Action Fab

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Unions and "brotherhood of the badge" are the biggest issues in fixing law enforcement. Fucking unions make it damn near impossible to get rid of bad cops and this "brotherhood of the badge" bullshit keeps other cops covering up for the bad cops. Cops that cover for bad cops are bad cops themselves.

The fraternity structure cannot be destroyed in a natural balance.

The key is to keep the fraternity from forming a monopoly.

Sitations: Revenge of the Nerds.
 

Projectjunkie

Whatever
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Tucson also rounds up the homeless and then they turn them loose. Guess where they go? Right back to the same park where they were picked up. How'd you like to be a cop and have that fucking job?

For 90k a year and a take home car? (About 3 years on the job with a little OT, not an exaggeration)

the 19 year old roofer is 3x as likely to be killed on the job.

yeah, I guess making people cry is hard to do if you have a heart
 

Action Fab

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Demetri Kofinas speaks with Matt Stoller, Director of Research at the American Economic Liberties Project and author of Goliath: The Hundred Year War Between Monopoly Power and Democracy. In this nearly two-hour long conversation, we discuss how monopoly, commercial concentration, and regulatory capture drive outcomes in our economy, markets, and political system and what we can do to take that power back.

This episode was recorded on Friday, May 29th, amidst the riots that have been unfolding across the country in response to the death of George Floyd, a 46-year old African American man who appears to have been suffocated by Minneapolis Police officer Derek Chauvin. Neither Matt or Demetri are in any position to provide further insight into what is transpiring in inneapolis, but they do discuss the response ble some members of the media, the White House, as well as the President’s statement that he is going to issue an executive order to roll back Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act with its legal protections for social media companies.

We also discuss the Joe Rogan-Spotify deal in the context of antitrust regulation and concentration in the podcast industry, the arrest of a CNN crew in Minneapolis, private equity and the regulatory capture of government by the financial sector, and perhaps most importantly a conversation about the future of the Democratic and Republican parties and whether we are living through the early stages of a new political consensus forming in American life.

 

Stuck

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Some people think my distrust of the police and legal system came from bad experiences.

I was in criminal justice classes 21 years old, squeaky clean, on track to be a cop when ATF agents came in do to their spiel and pass seized guns around. One told a story about having to go seize guns from a guy who was convicted of a misdemeanor decades earlier, did his 30 days or probation or whatever, but his crime was later reclassified as a felony, or made him a prohibited possessor. He said the guy was distraught and in tears, but he was just doing his job. I left that night with a stick stomach.

That's not honest work. I'll buy my own fast car, my own gun, and my own handcuffs if I want to get freaky.

I've had later interactions that didn't go well at the time, because I advocate for my rights. In the end I was vindicated.

Don't think you'll find justice in court either, you'll pay an attorney to trade favors on your behalf. Sitting outside a courthouse watch all the pencil neck lawyers congratulating each other, sucking on the tit of the working man without working a day in their lives. Makes me sad, my grandfather was my hero, he was a state judge, my first babysitters were court reporters in the judges chambers. Maybe it was an honorable profession then, but it's not now.

For profit prisons, conviction quotas, it's a racket.

Out here the suburbs are at the base of the mountains, the farther up the hill you get, the more expensive the houses get. Go halfway, where the neighborhoods start getting gated, $370k + houses, there's a law enforcement car in front of every third house, the median income in Tucson is like 34k. Tyrants always compensate their enforcers well.



Fuck the police:mad3:

Youre just full of shit. First a previously convicted misdemeanor from decades earlier cant be reclassified as a felony. Committing the crime now maybe a felony but his record stands as is. He would have to be tried all over again and there are just so many fucking reasons that cant happen Im not going to try.
Secondly the BATFE isnt going to get involved with seizing weapons in a scenario like that it. IF it happened which it didnt, the sheriff or local PD would be the agency dealing with that its a state issue not federal. How in the hell would they know about a petty misdemeanor from decades earlier or if he even had guns?
Its either a bullshit story you made up to show that its not just your stupid fucktardedness actions that makes you hate LE, or and I say this knowing its the first, you left out or just didnt understand what else was happening.
The rest of your post says it all.
 

Wheelin66bronco

Still here
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Some people think my distrust of the police and legal system came from bad experiences.

I was in criminal justice classes 21 years old, squeaky clean, on track to be a cop when ATF agents came in do to their spiel and pass seized guns around. One told a story about having to go seize guns from a guy who was convicted of a misdemeanor decades earlier, did his 30 days or probation or whatever, but his crime was later reclassified as a felony, or made him a prohibited possessor. He said the guy was distraught and in tears, but he was just doing his job. I left that night with a stick stomach.

That's not honest work. I'll buy my own fast car, my own gun, and my own handcuffs if I want to get freaky.

I've had later interactions that didn't go well at the time, because I advocate for my rights. In the end I was vindicated.

Don't think you'll find justice in court either, you'll pay an attorney to trade favors on your behalf. Sitting outside a courthouse watch all the pencil neck lawyers congratulating each other, sucking on the tit of the working man without working a day in their lives. Makes me sad, my grandfather was my hero, he was a state judge, my first babysitters were court reporters in the judges chambers. Maybe it was an honorable profession then, but it's not now.

For profit prisons, conviction quotas, it's a racket.

Out here the suburbs are at the base of the mountains, the farther up the hill you get, the more expensive the houses get. Go halfway, where the neighborhoods start getting gated, $370k + houses, there's a law enforcement car in front of every third house, the median income in Tucson is like 34k. Tyrants always compensate their enforcers well.



Fuck the police:mad3:

^^^couldnt agree more.
There are no good cops. If they're good, they get fired or run off.
 

Wheelin66bronco

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Youre just full of shit. First a previously convicted misdemeanor from decades earlier cant be reclassified as a felony. Committing the crime now maybe a felony but his record stands as is. He would have to be tried all over again and there are just so many fucking reasons that cant happen Im not going to try.
Secondly the BATFE isnt going to get involved with seizing weapons in a scenario like that it. IF it happened which it didnt, the sheriff or local PD would be the agency dealing with that its a state issue not federal. How in the hell would they know about a petty misdemeanor from decades earlier or if he even had guns?
Its either a bullshit story you made up to show that its not just your stupid fucktardedness actions that makes you hate LE, or and I say this knowing its the first, you left out or just didnt understand what else was happening.
The rest of your post says it all.

The only thing your post says is bootlicker.
 

scooter2374

walk home clown
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The war on drugs was started after prohibition because the government had manned up and couldn't let people go so if you end the war on drugs where do those people find work?

A new public works that fixes the roads and bridges. The private companies are in the pocket of whoever is bribing them that month. New USA Paving company comes in and STARTS with the Interstate system and see where they end up.
 

flecker

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Youre just full of shit. First a previously convicted misdemeanor from decades earlier cant be reclassified as a felony. Committing the crime now maybe a felony but his record stands as is. He would have to be tried all over again and there are just so many fucking reasons that cant happen Im not going to try.
Secondly the BATFE isnt going to get involved with seizing weapons in a scenario like that it. IF it happened which it didnt, the sheriff or local PD would be the agency dealing with that its a state issue not federal. How in the hell would they know about a petty misdemeanor from decades earlier or if he even had guns?
Its either a bullshit story you made up to show that its not just your stupid fucktardedness actions that makes you hate LE, or and I say this knowing its the first, you left out or just didnt understand what else was happening.
The rest of your post says it all.

:laughing:

Waco
Ruby Ridge

All I need to know about BATFE.

Now fuck off
 

Projectjunkie

Whatever
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Youre just full of shit. First a previously convicted misdemeanor from decades earlier cant be reclassified as a felony. It maybe a felony now but his record stands as is. He would have to be tried all over again and there are just so many fucking reasons that cant happen Im not going to try.
Secondly the BATFE isnt going to get involved with seizing weapons in a scenario like that it. IF it happened which it didnt, the sheriff or local PD would be the agency dealing with that its a state issue not federal. How in the hell would they know about a petty misdemeanor from decades earlier or if he even had guns?
Its either a bullshit story you made up to show that its not just your stupid fucktardedness actions that makes you hate LE, or and I say this knowing its the first, you left out or just didnt understand what else was happening.
The rest of your post says it all.

First of all, fuck off.

I know where I was sitting when I heard the words come out of a federal agents mouth and I decided to not be part of his profession.
As for the details, I didn't ask specifically, I mage my mind up not to lay with dogs.

The lautenberg amendment is retroactive, had he wandered in to purchase a deer rifle and filled out a 4473, he could have been flagged.

so fuck you, you fucking piece of shit cop, you are exactly what's wrong with law enforcement, and why I don't shed a tear when one of you gets wiped out

fuck off, you have no integrity, and no right to question mine
 

Projectjunkie

Whatever
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I'll add to it, I've been working my ass off since then, and I won't shed a fucking tear when your pension goes tits up
 

Ted_Kaczynski

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First of all, fuck off.

I know where I was sitting when I heard the words come out of a federal agents mouth and I decided to not be part of his profession.
As for the details, I didn't ask specifically, I mage my mind up not to lay with dogs.

The lautenberg amendment is retroactive, had he wandered in to purchase a deer rifle and filled out a 4473, he could have been flagged.

so fuck you, you fucking piece of shit cop, you are exactly what's wrong with law enforcement, and why I don't shed a tear when one of you gets wiped out

fuck off, you have no integrity, and no right to question mine

Funny how those on the ground to enforce the laws never know the fucking laws.

​​​​​
 

Stuck

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Funny how those on the ground to enforce the laws never know the fucking laws.

​​​​​

I do know the law. If the guy was convicted of a misdemeanor. It stays a misdemeanor regardless of how the law is changed later. You cant be charged and convicted one way and the conviction gets changed by a rewriting of the law. It doesnt work that way.
 

Stuck

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First of all, fuck off.

I know where I was sitting when I heard the words come out of a federal agents mouth and I decided to not be part of his profession.
As for the details, I didn't ask specifically, I mage my mind up not to lay with dogs.

The lautenberg amendment is retroactive, had he wandered in to purchase a deer rifle and filled out a 4473, he could have been flagged.

so fuck you, you fucking piece of shit cop, you are exactly what's wrong with law enforcement, and why I don't shed a tear when one of you gets wiped out

fuck off, you have no integrity, and no right to question mine

Bullshit.
 

bigun

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I have friend whose life long dream was to join the state police, while at the academy they came in to talk to the students and it was all about them against the public, he said I couldn't beleive what I was hearing and it broke my heart, because there was no way I could serve with people like that.
 

Ted_Kaczynski

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Bullshit.

I was active duty Army when the retroactive lautenberg shit ended alot of careers. It's true they weren't misdemeanors that changed to felonies, but the terms and impact of the retroactive penalties meant anyone with any type of DV charge anytime in the past were no longer able to carry a firearm and unfit to serve, discharged.

Shitty part is some of them may have lawyered up and been able to overcome the charges prior to being convicted had they known it may have such an effect on their future.

I am in no way defending wife beaters but alot people got caught by the system and in my opinion not afforded their true day in court.


​​​​​​I call bullshit on you knowing the codes and laws you are sworn to uphold. There's too many of them, therefore you get to pick winners and losers daily based on your personal beliefs and feelings. The law is not enforced blindly. For that, fuck you.
 
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