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Pit bull dumpster fire

MochaMike said:
Having a so-so reputation for performance of the tires, and long delays with delivery has hurt them.
Ad to that recent increase in Stickies: Treps, SXs, etc, plus good reviews from companies with smaller-medium tires (Like Patagonia) at great prices, plus covid and his fate is doomed.
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This makes me a bit worried for the future of Krawlers too. I wheel with a pretty kick ass group of 4 wheel steer rigs and just about half have made the switch to MS Patagonia's right now. They are affordable, and they work. Like really work. My favorite tire of all time is the Krawler but I can't do $800 per tire and buy 20's when I can get the Pat's for $400 each and they fit my 17's. I hate to brag on foreign tires over american made but there is no comparison between PB's and Pats size for size. The PBR might have a tougher sidewall but the traction isn't there. And yes I've ran both in the same size before anyone jumps my shit about it.
 
JR4X said:
This makes me a bit worried for the future of Krawlers too. I wheel with a pretty kick ass group of 4 wheel steer rigs and just about half have made the switch to MS Patagonia's right now. They are affordable, and they work. Like really work. My favorite tire of all time is the Krawler but I can't do $800 per tire and buy 20's when I can get the Pat's for $400 each and they fit my 17's. I hate to brag on foreign tires over american made but there is no comparison between PB's and Pats size for size. The PBR might have a tougher sidewall but the traction isn't there. And yes I've ran both in the same size before anyone jumps my shit about it.
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As much as I'd like to support a company that is trying to support American, if it doesn't make financial sense, sorry, I won't support it. Everyone says things are so much more expensive to manufacture in America... While that's probably true, ask yourself WHY? Why can't America compete with China? I love my country, but until they can push products out for a closer pricepoint to China, I'll have a hard time paying a premium price for an inferior product. I love my Milestar Patagonias :flipoff2::usa:

jeep.jpg
 
Poriggity said:
While that's probably true, ask yourself WHY? Why can't America compete with China? I love my country, but until they can push products out for a closer pricepoint to China, I'll have a hard time paying a premium price for an inferior product. I love my Milestar Patagonias :flipoff2::usa:
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Because China doesn't give a single fuck about working conditions, pay, benefits, etc. China is essentially pretty damn close to legal slave labor.
 
I can't speak to factory conditions over here, but the main reason I try to support US companies is because it employs US people, and (hopefully) keeps the $ over here.
 
NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE said:
ahh yes. american factories give so many fucks about pay and benefits.
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LiveLeak. Search "China" and "Accidents". Like the dude that got caught in the spinning rug-looking machine and just spun there for 15m into the floor.
 
Poriggity said:
Why can't America compete with China?
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china has wages close to slave labor and billions of people willing to work for that or less. I’m sure most people here couldn’t support their families working 60+ hours a week at $1.15 an hour
 
JR4X said:
This makes me a bit worried for the future of Krawlers too. I wheel with a pretty kick ass group of 4 wheel steer rigs and just about half have made the switch to MS Patagonia's right now. They are affordable, and they work. Like really work. My favorite tire of all time is the Krawler but I can't do $800 per tire and buy 20's when I can get the Pat's for $400 each and they fit my 17's. I hate to brag on foreign tires over american made but there is no comparison between PB's and Pats size for size. The PBR might have a tougher sidewall but the traction isn't there. And yes I've ran both in the same size before anyone jumps my shit about it.
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Lost two Pats due to sidewall failure in the group down at SH last year.

If you think Reds are weak, well....


I have some friends that just picked up two sets ( him and her crawler couple) that run in some shitty ass sharp volcanic rock over on the east side of the rainforest. I’m curious to see how well they hold up.
 
NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE said:
ahh yes. american factories give so many fucks about pay and benefits.
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They have to follow American regulations. The pay and benefits may not be great, but they're a helluva lot better than China.

When companies can afford to ship shit (often the raw materials AND the finished materials) across the world, pay import fees and tariffs and still come out considerably cheaper, you know the labor side of the equation is dirt cheap.
 
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east_beast said:
Because China doesn't give a single fuck about working conditions, pay, benefits, etc. China is essentially pretty damn close to legal slave labor.
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Just like America 2 generations ago, when we were competitive.

I wonder if PBR really meant to say that FB was responsible for the Arab Spring, as though that's a bad thing?
 
east_beast said:
They have to follow American regulations. The pay and benefits may not be great, but they're a helluva lot better than China.

When companies can afford to ship shit (often the raw materials AND the finished materials) across the world, pay import fees and tariffs and still come out considerably cheaper, you know the labor side of the equation is dirt cheap.
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so you're for big gov't regulation?
 
Mr Stubs said:
Where is our tire expert, Kaptin Cooper?

Did he make the switch?
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He’s mostly on Facebook these days and doesn’t have much time for even that. I did see him post here I believe, But he’s probably at work because he’s “essential”.
 
Mr Stubs said:
Lost two Pats due to sidewall failure in the group down at SH last year.

If you think Reds are weak, well....


I have some friends that just picked up two sets ( him and her crawler couple) that run in some shitty ass sharp volcanic rock over on the east side of the rainforest. I’m curious to see how well they hold up.
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We ran the black label 40's in 4400 at KOH this year. Only lost one and it was due to driver error flying off the trail and into a boulder field at 60 mph. They are no Krawler but there are many tires I think they are better than. I have been playing with them in the down time in my crawler and they are impressive for what they cost. Down the road that probably means they will increase in cost too and then who knows what will happen.
 
Poriggity said:
As much as I'd like to support a company that is trying to support American, if it doesn't make financial sense, sorry, I won't support it. Everyone says things are so much more expensive to manufacture in America... While that's probably true, ask yourself WHY? Why can't America compete with China? I love my country, but until they can push products out for a closer pricepoint to China, I'll have a hard time paying a premium price for an inferior product. I love my Milestar Patagonias :flipoff2::usa:
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you seriously dont know why american products cant compete pricewise with Asia? seriously? OSHA, EPA, lawyers, unions, etc. Take your pick. or add them all together.
 
Texas97 said:
you seriously dont know why american products cant compete pricewise with Asia? seriously? OSHA, EPA, lawyers, unions, etc. Take your pick. or add them all together.
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on one side you have first world wages, first world air and water standards, etc ec. on the other side you have fuck the environment lets make us some product. fuck the people. fuck their wages. etc.

can't have it both ways.
 
NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE said:
so you're saying big gov't regulations in the US make for a safer working environment? are you against capitalism?
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Not against capitalism, no. But I feel like with agencies like OSHA, you're a bit more safer than in a Chinese factory. Is it a 100% fool proof system? Not at all. Do agencies like OSHA incur higher costs on the production? Absolutely. But I feel better knowing the folks creating the product are looked at better than a Chinese worker replacing the previous guy who's blood is still warm after getting sucked into the machine.
 
woods said:
Not against capitalism, no. But I feel like with agencies like OSHA, you're a bit more safer than in a Chinese factory. Is it a 100% fool proof system? Not at all. Do agencies like OSHA incur higher costs on the production? Absolutely. But I feel better knowing the folks creating the product are looked at better than a Chinese worker replacing the previous guy who's blood is still warm after getting sucked into the machine.
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there's a way to do that without MSHA or OSHA hammering down the minutiae.
 
JR4X said:
We ran the black label 40's in 4400 at KOH this year. Only lost one and it was due to driver error flying off the trail and into a boulder field at 60 mph. They are no Krawler but there are many tires I think they are better than. I have been playing with them in the down time in my crawler and they are impressive for what they cost. Down the road that probably means they will increase in cost too and then who knows what will happen.
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I still use the Krawler for what it was originally designed for, rock crawling. Not bouncing, pre-running, mud whoring, whatever...

Nothing works better here in my neck of the woods.

I used to run super cheap China tires back in my moto days, like change the set after a 100 mile woods race type run em’. I changed lots of tires.

Wonder if three sets of Pats would equal one set of Reds? If they do I’ll get good at changing tires again😜
 
Poriggity said:
So, we brought this upon ourselves. Great.
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There's no competing with China dollar for dollar unless you're willing to have a slave class of laborers working in horrific conditions and rivers that can literally be set ablaze again.
 
woods said:
Not against capitalism, no. But I feel like with agencies like OSHA, you're a bit more safer than in a Chinese factory. Is it a 100% fool proof system? Not at all. Do agencies like OSHA incur higher costs on the production? Absolutely. But I feel better knowing the folks creating the product are looked at better than a Chinese worker replacing the previous guy who's blood is still warm after getting sucked into the machine.
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hey I don't disagree.

its just the anti china crowd is usually anti OSHA as well.

uncheck capitalism isn't good for the working stiff at the end of the day regardless of country.
 
east_beast said:
There's no competing with China dollar for dollar unless you're willing to have a slave class of laborers working in horrific conditions and rivers that can literally be set ablaze again.
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keep killing the EPA and OSHA like we're doing and its the end result. its ok tho; we can make plastic products in the US against to fuck china over.
 
at the rate i'm going, i'll be lucky to wear out my current pitbulls from before the 'drain the swamp' sale in another decade :lmao:

shit still makes me sad though
 
Provience said:
at the rate i'm going, i'll be lucky to wear out my current pitbulls from before the 'drain the swamp' sale in another decade :lmao:

shit still makes me sad though
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It makes me sad when a company that's trying to keep business in the states fails, but you gotta understand going into it that some people will be willing to pay somewhat of a premium for a made in America product, but they're probably not going to be willing to pay double on an already pricey product like tires. You really paint yourself into a corner when you build your company image on "made in America" then figure out well down the road that it's simply not economically viable. Seems like that's where they're at.
 
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