Ghetto Fab.
No idea what I'm doing
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 208
- Messages
- 669
The one thing I've noticed looking at axles is that even though no one really wants the dodge axles, they are usually more expensive than a superduty axle.
Follow along with the video below to see how to install our site as a web app on your home screen.
Note: This feature may not be available in some browsers.
My 2010 personal truck has over 200K on it with every single original OE part on that front axle except for the brake pads.
There’s no worse service life a truck can be sentenced too than the oilfield gig I’m working now. A normal truck needs the front axle to contribute only occasionally. Our trucks, live in 4wd bogging, banging around, tire chains on. It’s hard to get you guys a good visual on how many times a day every day these wheel bearings take side load impact. The hard pack ruts are 4 to 6 inches deep and now we have snow/ice pack on top of that. When you need to make a 90° turn off the main road on to a location, with chains on the front tires. You have to come to a complete stop at the turn, turn full lock the direction you need to go, and floor it to get the chains to bite and climb up out of ruts to make the turn. On the rare occasion that you can get on top of the road, tires in between ruts, it’s only a matter of time before you slip back into the train track like ruts. The sideways force that puts on the UB on impact can’t have been factored into the design phase. These trucks are consumables. My 2019 has needed inner axle seals twice in 144K and it’s because of the amount of full lock rev limiter mud or snow bashing. I’m working 6 day work weeks because of snow and I’ve been chained up every day since around Christmas. Don’t need the chains for propulsion, chains are to be able to steer and stop.
I used to think that a D60 was so overkill for stock tires. All this damage happens with 285/75/17’s.
Rockwood
An Ape
On paper, yeah, they have the potential for over 10,000lb-ft of input torque to the axle...
But I assume there's a lot of software in the ECM to prevent that kind of bullshit. I doubt the software allows full beans in low range and 1st gear.
You could be YouTube rich from filming the daily life of an oilfield worker
TrailTamer
🤣🖕🏻
Especially if he talk like Southernfriedcj8
Arthur isn't too keen on getting onto Irate, but he just did a radius armed 9.25 swap into his own tahoe with Hutch over christmas.
It seems like it's a hell of a good swap for Chevy IFS given the ABS tone ring matching, among a few other bits that made it work really well for him.
He also talked about being able to potentially swap out the Dodge unit bearings with chevy ones given the matching stud pattern on the backside. For those doing GMT800 SASs it might be a really good thread.
I was thinking more like Peg up in Albertastan aka Zip Ties and Bias Plies
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Fuck back off to Europe
Skinny
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2023
- Member Number
- 6236
- Messages
- 479
Yeah the SuperDuty axles aren't suffering gear failure. So then why change it? 🤣
I know the answer, I'm just being a dick.
Everything changes, nothing lasts forever, and at some point in life everyone will be swapping this into the high dollar and budget builds because it will have the aftermarket support in place. Because Ford has been the go to axle since forever vs. Dodge/AAM.
I think my problem is that proven parts would last decades and have a lot in common across brands. Now good stuff lasts 2-3 production years, gets changed out, and only fits one model.
I know the answer, I'm just being a dick.
Everything changes, nothing lasts forever, and at some point in life everyone will be swapping this into the high dollar and budget builds because it will have the aftermarket support in place. Because Ford has been the go to axle since forever vs. Dodge/AAM.
I think my problem is that proven parts would last decades and have a lot in common across brands. Now good stuff lasts 2-3 production years, gets changed out, and only fits one model.
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,850
You wish.
I'm as solid here as I have ever been and my love for this country stronger than ever.
Stop being a whinny ****.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Well then stop acting like a European with your "if you can't at least X you shouldn't be partaking in Y" type attitude. Or maybe fuck back off to Reddit where that sort of shit is welcome.
You bring that elitist douchebag attitude into literally every discussion. You need to get it through your thick commie skull that most people are not slapping $500 fans that plug in using $100 connectors into trophy trucks with other people's money and that most people do care about what the future supply of junkyard donor axles is because the bling ready to go housings people like you buy are generally not in budget without major sacrifices elsewhere in a build.
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,850
You are entitled to your own opinion.
I'm as far from an elitist or a communist as it gets. Everything I know, everything I have, I worked my tail off for it.
The vast majority of people that swaps one tons in this country will buy a pre-made, ready to drop in set. Don't let this little hardcore crowd fool you, the masses of people driving one ton axled vehicles are Jeepers. With JKs and JLs. And tons of money to spend.
Pirate is were I learned all about putting in the work to design and go the extra mile to build some unique and amazing piece of machinery that would dominate any terrain. I look up to people like Jesse Haines, Randy Slawson, Shannon Campbell, Weston Blackie, Dan Dibble, Dan DuBose, Bender and many more inspiring figures that pushed the boundaries and woo us with crazy over the top, wild creations.
I would love to one day be part of that select club.
You know one of the many things they have in common ? They didn't bitch because building a custom axle is complicated and expensive.
The mentality of shit being easy and with a low barrier of entry is what got us to the point of being overrun by the fucking credit card wheelers. I don't want this sport to be mainstream and I don't care if my stance on a high barrier of entry hurts your feelings.
I'm as far from an elitist or a communist as it gets. Everything I know, everything I have, I worked my tail off for it.
The vast majority of people that swaps one tons in this country will buy a pre-made, ready to drop in set. Don't let this little hardcore crowd fool you, the masses of people driving one ton axled vehicles are Jeepers. With JKs and JLs. And tons of money to spend.
Pirate is were I learned all about putting in the work to design and go the extra mile to build some unique and amazing piece of machinery that would dominate any terrain. I look up to people like Jesse Haines, Randy Slawson, Shannon Campbell, Weston Blackie, Dan Dibble, Dan DuBose, Bender and many more inspiring figures that pushed the boundaries and woo us with crazy over the top, wild creations.
I would love to one day be part of that select club.
You know one of the many things they have in common ? They didn't bitch because building a custom axle is complicated and expensive.
The mentality of shit being easy and with a low barrier of entry is what got us to the point of being overrun by the fucking credit card wheelers. I don't want this sport to be mainstream and I don't care if my stance on a high barrier of entry hurts your feelings.
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
I don't care who you are or what you did in the past because that doesn't excuse being a dumb short sighted piece of shit right now.
Outside of Socal and parts of Utah random vehicles that came from the factory with a leaf sprung solid axle on one end that are now rocking leaf sprung solid axles on both ends are probably the default "built" 4x4 once you star talking about vehicles that have been axle swapped. Of course they're all outnumbered by jeeps with less invasive bolt ons though.
Those hordes of credit card wheelers are what stand between the status quo and the Sierra Club types closing everything.
I hope you live long enough to reap what you sow.
You are the wheeling equivalent of a FUDD. Your beliefs directly result in reduced participation which results in the sport dying. Look at shooting sports in Europe vs the USA. Heck, look at shooting sports in the USA in 2005. That's what happens when shit is run by people who believe in high barriers to.
Futhermore, the people who pay you to toss garbage onto their expensive builds are a direct reflection of the size of the sport. You can't have those people be as numerous as they are or the products you buy and install for them being as numerous as they are without there being orders of magnitude more people who are less involved in the sport propping them up.
Last edited:
rockota
white collar hillbilly
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Member Number
- 1642
- Messages
- 3,959
Irony.
Rockwood
An Ape
No shit. There's such a thing as PMs. Or, if you want it to be public, go start a thread on it.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAnnnnnnnnnnnyway...
So, I get that these aren't as strong as 60s of yore, but as a dude in SoCal who hasn't seen any SD60 failures in person, how common are R&P failures with SD60s in rockcrawlers elsewhere? Ford has their reasons, and given their track record on generally not grenading axles (for normal use), is probably fine. What's in it for us JY guys? I know the JL guys with the M200 haven't been blowing shit up left and right on 40s (mainly just left, so acceptable-ish for a mall-crawler).
2big bronco
Og irate
Do we actually know these arnt as strong as sd 60s?
Grendel
Iron Sharpens Iron
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 297
- Messages
- 3,538
We don't that I know of.
I do think they use more electronics to protect, as posited earlier.
The 2023 F550 Dana Msomething rear I have here doesn't have the beef of the Dana 130 it replaced. I know up-fitters replacing both front and rear axles with Meritors...I can get the take outs for 500.00 a pair.
Attachments
Bebop
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 26, 2020
- Member Number
- 1458
- Messages
- 4,850
Smaller R&P has never meant stronger. So hopefully it's just as strong but I'd probably bet it's weaker.
Hey, I didn't start the pissing contest.
And when someone invites me to dance, I will oblige.
Failure rate is pretty low.
What I see break is mostly older cars with potentially tired bearings that then get a shit pattern and then break teeth.
Broken pinions are rarer in crawlers, but I've seen one pop in a a double low uber traction situation.
Seen also a few pop on rockbouncers but that's not the discussion here.
Skinny
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2023
- Member Number
- 6236
- Messages
- 479
Look I don't care who you are, what your beliefs are, etc. but this is a pretty ignorant elitist statement.
Up here in New England I can count on one hand in the last two decades how many mail order crate axles I have seen running around on non-comp buggy vehicles.
Sure maybe where you are everyone has $75k rugs but in my territory which also used to include places like Paragon Park everyone runs junkyard shit.
I have three built trucks for the price of a set of axles. There is no such thing as a crate engine or axle.
Not stating that it isn't done, there are a lot of companies in business that obviously make money doing it. But to state that the majority of people running trails have mail order axles is just about the dumbest thing I have ever fucking heard.
Actually all the newer Jeeps I see running around on 40s have every catalog bolt on attached to their shit with those factory Advantek garbage underneath. But hey I clearly am not the expert or making blanket statements covering every part of the country...
welndmn
Well Done Man
This was interesting, you people fuck every thread up!
Provience
Kill!
Just get back to the regular conversation.
I'll maintain that ring and pinion diameters are not the end all for strength. You can use smaller and be stronger when you have more rigid support.
Hence pinion snouts, load bolts, bigger caps, bigger bearings, heavy wall housings and the such do make a difference
arse_sidewards
Red Skull Member
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 71
- Messages
- 8,558
Typo fix?
Provience
Kill!
rockota
white collar hillbilly
- Joined
- May 28, 2020
- Member Number
- 1642
- Messages
- 3,959
7.3 feels like it has more torque than the 6.7 it replaced right off idle... I suspect TM is much less intrusive on the 7.3
Grendel
Iron Sharpens Iron
- Joined
- May 19, 2020
- Member Number
- 297
- Messages
- 3,538
It's coupled with ABS/tone rings/sensors that has individual circuits to all calipers. So they can stop a spinning wheel, drop torque, or use the e-locker, etc.
IMO it’s more intrusive. Nothing to do with gas V diesel. Just the newer they get the worse the TM is. I just got the keys to a 2024 F250 with a 6.8 and 10 speed. I’ll give y’all my cliffs on it when I actually start driving it.
Wheelerfreak
Stunningly Average
Axle material and diameter/spline count do too. I haven't heard anything on those things yet.
'84 Bronco II
El Chingón
I can tell you this change was 100% motivated by fuel economy and nothing more. The entire Advantek line was created to be more efficient than the legacy axles primarily through significantly reduced hypoid offsets (Like sub-1") which they compensated for with chode sized pinion shafts and a fancy "spherical toroid" tooth profile. I belive they are also using ball bearings in some Advantek axles instead of tapered roller bearings for increased efficiency.
I don't see how a 9.25" ring gear with significantly less hypoid offset is going to be as strong as a 10.08" gear set with substantially more hypoid offset. The fact that they still use the Dana 60 centersection is some configurations should tell you all you need to know. I am sure the outers are all the same; similar to the '99-'04 Dana 50 vs Dana 60.
It is still going to be stronger than a '99-'04 Dana 50 in every way and probably pretty much dead even with an AAM 9.25". The outers are still going to be significantly better than '99-'04 stuff, Dana 60 included.
A little off topic, but I have never understood why manufacturers do such stupid shit to chase fuel economy gains in 3/4+ ton trucks that don't even get rated by the EPA and the customers are more concerned with strength, reliability, and performance than fuel economy. Things like the retarded-low chin spoilers on Superduties, Putting in an M235 in place of the D60, duck tail spoiler built into tailgates, CAD in the '14+ Dodges, changing the axle gears in Power Wagons from 4.56 to 4.10, etc.
Last edited: