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No more 60 front in SD

My dad has a 23 tremor. Will pull the BOM number once I see it again in a few weeks.
 
It has the diff cover shape of the newer Advantek axles. Probably is what the future holds...

Those fucking things are used on every midsize POS manufactured in the US today. Wouldn't surprise me Ford spec'd one for the SuperDuty to save 2 pounds. But it's got a blah blurry blah blah pinion diameter or gear pattern. Meanwhile it's in a one ton truck which is now rated like a 5 ton truck with a fuckton of horsepower and 10 speeds.

Let's see how it works out 😁
 
Tech Tim said:
Even Spicer still refers to them by the legacy names. Mainly because the legacy names are the weight rating for the axles.

D30 = 3,000lb
D44 = 4400lb
D60 = 6K lb.
Etc.

Screenshot 2024-01-10 at 1.12.30 PM.png
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They didn't start doing that until the JL came out, and now they are all in with the Bronco sheeples. When the Advanteks first came out in Superduties and Colorados, they only ever referred to them as M220s, M275s, and M300s. They started referring to the legacy axles as M226, M248, M256, etc. in anticipation for the forthcoming metric Advantek axle series.
 
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arse_sidewards said:
Fixed
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Bahaha 🤣

Surprised Toyota and Nissan haven't gotten on board to save $5 on axles as well.

Aside from the 05 axles and the 99-04 which isn't terrible for what it is, Dana seems to just never get it right. Yes the gear set is "better" in the Advantek axle but now it has a center disconnect or bendable tubes.

I will say it's also on the truck itself because a Gladiator on 37-40s with those toothpicks is way overstressed in every regard regardless of how great the Dana 44 or non-Dana 44 they are sticking in them.

I'm not impressed regardless and they potentially just took out another great axle.

Who cares, it will have bumpsteer and 20k balljoints regardless 🤘
 
Skinny said:
Bahaha 🤣

Surprised Toyota and Nissan haven't gotten on board to save $5 on axles as well.
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That's why I say it's probably is fuel economy and not cost. The Japanese don't need to up their CAFE because they have a better ratio of economy cars to trucks and SUVs.
Skinny said:
Aside from the 05 axles and the 99-04 which isn't terrible for what it is, Dana seems to just never get it right. Yes the gear set is "better" in the Advantek axle but now it has a center disconnect or bendable tubes.
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I think a lot of this shit boils down to BigCo politics.

An internal department generally won't take the fall like a vendor will. The guys who crank out the Sterlings aren't gonna sign off on "yeah we can totally put this toothpick under a truck way to big for it" because they know that it'll be their ass when the warranty claims roll in or whatever. So the bean counters hire a vendor who's happy to make the sale and say "yeah we can do that shit".
 
Old diff probably had zero failures and was grossly overkill for the target market. Ford did the same thing with the 6r140 trans behind the 6.2, downplayed it to a 6r100 in '17. They might lose 1 or 2 buyers a year cause they took muh got durn dana 60 away

Really who is blowing up front ring and pinions in these things? I doubt that's what fails first. JR4X is probably the guy to ask, if Ford has any common sense they'd get a couple of his old trucks to evaluate for R&D
 
mjlogan88 said:
Old diff probably had zero failures and was grossly overkill for the target market. Ford did the same thing with the 6r140 trans behind the 6.2, downplayed it to a 6r100 in '17. They might lose 1 or 2 buyers a year cause they took muh got durn dana 60 away

Really who is blowing up front ring and pinions in these things? I doubt that's what fails first. JR4X is probably the guy to ask, if Ford has any common sense they'd get a couple of his old trucks to evaluate for R&D
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My 2019 work truck just had to have a carrier put in the front because I broke a spider gear. The material they are made of is crap, side gears don’t look like good old spicer stuff. Same truck is at a shop because the 6 speed transmission went out, first automatic I’ve ever killed or had fail me. 144K on the odo 6.2 gasser.

If this is the end of the line for D60’s in production, we won’t run out of them in our lifetime.
 
JR4X said:
My 2019 work truck just had to have a carrier put in the front because I broke a spider gear. The material they are made of is crap, side gears don’t look like good old spicer stuff. Same truck is at a shop because the 6 speed transmission went out, first automatic I’ve ever killed or had fail me. 144K on the odo 6.2 gasser.

If this is the end of the line for D60’s in production, we won’t run out of them in our lifetime.
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Well sounds like you proved me wrong on both points

Thanks for chiming in. Always good to hear from the real world
 
The tremors have the larger M256 axle as well. I'll take a pic of my '23 here in a bit.
 
mjlogan88 said:
Well sounds like you proved me wrong on both points

Thanks for chiming in. Always good to hear from the real world
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You’re still correct, ring and pinions aren’t failing. I’ve broken hubs, unit bearings, stripped splines off of axles and the spider gear. But haven’t hurt a R&P.
 
Rangerrod said:
So sounds like there’s 99-04, 05-16, 17-22 and 22 and up. Good info.
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Ring & pinion don’t interchange between 2016-down and 2017-up. Carrier interchanges, however.

2017-2022 are “short pinion” with 28 spline pinion. Only go down to 4.88 and very expensive, per RockAuto.

No idea what Ford SDs come with in 2023-up.
 
I finally waded through that FTE thread. I think this owner's manual picture is the final piece of proof the new front axles have an M235 center.
Capture.PNG



What that thread got me interested in though is the Ram 4500/550 high pinion 10.5 axles.
Capture.PNG
 
The thing that sucks, is all these newer/weaker axles are protected by things like electronic traction control, torque management etc.

Those protections won't be present in our swap-to vehicles and thus cause more breakage.
 
Grendel said:
The thing that sucks, is all these newer/weaker axles are protected by things like electronic traction control, torque management etc.

Those protections won't be present in our swap-to vehicles and thus cause more breakage.
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As long as the outers are big we're good.
Custom housings are easy to make.
 
The truck we had here, the outers looked the same, the only real change I could discern visibly from looking at it was the differential. I think its a bit early to tell if they are crap or not. My guess is that Dana is doing the same thing they did with the jeep axles. As far as I'm aware, the new jeep ring and pinions at least aren't the fail that everyone thought they would be.
 
Bebop said:
These look beefy
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Looks like it has CAD, but other than that I would be curious how it compares to the F450/550 stuff. Hell I would be interested in an AAM9.25 tech thread. I know the '14+ stuff has CAD, but potentially a good source for 8 on 6.5" 1550 outers for custom axle builds, and maybe they have more driver side tube for easier swapping? The 9.25 gears probably aren't as strong as Dana 60 gears, but probably sufficient for most 1-ton swapped full bodied rigs. The only swap I ever remember reading about was the Tahoe they built for Four Wheeler or Petersen's about a decade ago.
 
JR4X said:
My 2019 work truck just had to have a carrier put in the front because I broke a spider gear. The material they are made of is crap, side gears don’t look like good old spicer stuff. Same truck is at a shop because the 6 speed transmission went out, first automatic I’ve ever killed or had fail me. 144K on the odo 6.2 gasser.

If this is the end of the line for D60’s in production, we won’t run out of them in our lifetime.
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How do you manage that? Do you intentionally beat the hell out of them? I only really ask because I feel like I use my truck harder the 95% of people and with 325k miles of the hubs locked in, I reallly have no worries of differential problems
 
'84 Bronco II said:
[...] potentially a good source for 8 on 6.5" 1550 outers for custom axle builds[...]
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Yep that's my only interest in them.

That said I think the outers are 10 lugs, not 8, right ?

Or do they use the same Ford 05+ UBs ?
 
2big bronco said:
How do you manage that? Do you intentionally beat the hell out of them? I only really ask because I feel like I use my truck harder the 95% of people and with 325k miles of the hubs locked in, I reallly have no worries of differential problems
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How much of that is off highway miles and flogging the fuck out of it?
 
Bebop said:
Yep that's my only interest in them.

That said I think the outers are 10 lugs, not 8, right ?

Or do they use the same Ford 05+ UBs ?
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Looks like it on the 4500/5500 axle, but I have no idea whether you can swap the unit bearings with the 9.25 similar to the Superduty stuff. I know nothing about the 10.5 stuff other than that picture I posted.

The AAM 9.25 went to 1550 (Technically 1555) in 2010 I think? All the 2500 and SRW 3500 axles are 8 on 6.5" so you don't need the 10.5" for the 1550-capable knuckles.
 
'84 Bronco II said:
Looks like it on the 4500/5500 axle, but I have no idea whether you can swap the unit bearings with the 9.25 similar to the Superduty stuff. I know nothing about the 10.5 stuff other than that picture I posted.
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Gotcha.

'84 Bronco II said:
The AAM 9.25 went to 1550 (Technically 1555) in 2010 I think? All the 2500 and SRW 3500 axles are 8 on 6.5" so you don't need the 10.5" for the 1550-capable knuckles.
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I wonder what steering angle you can get out of those.
Edit : And what spline count you can fit in the outers. 40+ ?
 
2big bronco said:
How do you manage that? Do you intentionally beat the hell out of them? I only really ask because I feel like I use my truck harder the 95% of people and with 325k miles of the hubs locked in, I reallly have no worries of differential problems
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From seeing some of his posts, I think he's that 5%

Oilfield off road sorta violence I think is what he does. There was one thread i think he was talking about killing PS pumps because he's regularly on the rev limiter for long periods of time doing what needs to be done to accomplish the job.

I'm sure he will chime in but I always find his posts interesting since he's one of the few that uses those trucks to their full potential seemingly daily
 
I can't find my picture, but I always wonder just how much beef we need.
I have my 1979 "Snow fighter" dana 60 next to the 2014 Dana 60, the newer stuff was just so damn massive!
 
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