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New York Limo Crash

det107

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~Schoharie Limo Crash: NTSB Says Seat Belts Might Have Saved Lives~

A Federal report released by the National Transportation Safety Board says proper seating & seat belts might have saved the lives of the passengers in the horrific limousine crash Oct. 8th 2018 in Schoharie, NY.

The 2001 Ford Excursion SUV stretch limo was well traveling over 50 mph when it ran a stop sign and crashed into a parked 2015 Toyota Highlander before colliding into an embankment on the far side of a ravine. As a result of the crash, 20 people died including all 17 limousine passengers on a birthday leisure trip, the driver, and 2 people standing near the Highlander.

The NTSB's report includes the first publicly released photos.

The damage was too intense in the front seat for the driver to survive, but not in the passenger section, federal officials said.

However, the installation of bench seats was inadequate, the lap belts were inadequate & improperly positioned, and that the passengers didn't put the inadequate belts on. The seat belts were under the bench seat & invisible, the NTSB said....
 

det107

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Examination of three other similar limousines used by Prestige Limousine showed that, in the perimeter bench seats, the lap belts were also under the seats, rendering them inaccessible to passengers. After the Schoharie crash, NTSB investigators had to remove the bench seats to gain access to the seat belts.

Inspection of the other limousines owned by Prestige Limousine and visits to other limousine companies indicated that seat belts in the non-OEM perimeter seating areas are often not accessible to passengers.

* Among the NTSB's other findings:

~ The 2001 Ford Excursion was significantly modified. It was stretched 144 inches and the interior in the stretched region was reconfigured with perimeter-style bench seating.

~ The NTSB found the side- and rear-facing bench seats failed in the direction of crash forces and that the strength of these seats and their anchorages were inadequate during the crash. In comparison, the original Ford passenger seats in the rear of the vehicle remained attached to the floor and intact.

NTSB officials said the New York Transportation Department should, in the regular inspection process, make sure all limo seat belts are accessible & functional. The NTSB also reiterated an earlier recommendation that the state pass legislation that provides for primary enforcement of a mandatory seat belt use law for all vehicle seating positions equipped w/passenger restraint system, including passenger seats in limousines.

The DOT issued a statement in response. Commissioner Marie Therese Dominguez said: "The NTSB recommended that New York incorporate the inspection of seatbelts for functionality and accessibility into the NYSDOT biannual vehicle inspection process -- something that in fact has been standard protocol in our process since the early 1990s and are incorporated into the Code of Rules & Regulations for New York State. The seatbelt requirement has been a top priority of this administration to ensure safety on our roads. This past January, as part of the State Budget, Governor Cuomo put forth strong legislation requiring that all occupants of all vehicles wear seatbelts - the third year in a row in which he called for strengthening the state's seat belt laws. It is extremely unfortunate these important measures have been repeatedly rejected by the legislature. We urge all lawmakers to join this crucial public safety effort and finally pass the requirement into law during the next session."
 

det107

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The NTSB also called for new national requirements for seating and seatbelt systems on limousines. The recommendations:

~The National Highway Traffic safety Administration require lap/shoulder belts for each passenger seating position on all new vehicles modified to be used as limousines.

~ The NHTSA also require seating in these vehicles to meet minimum performance standards to ensure their integrity during a crash. "It's disheartening to learn that some passenger vehicles are legally on the road that don't offer passengers well-designed seats & seat belts," said NTSB Chairman Robert L. Sumwalt. "All vehicle occupants should have the same level of protection, wherever they are seated. And everyone should use seatbelts whenever they are available."

The Schoharie limo hadn't been properly registered, had not been certified, and had been ordered out of service by a DOT inspector for various safety problems according to the Albany Times Union.

Criminal and civil cases are in the courts. The operator of Prestige Limousine, Nauman Hussain, faces 40 counts of second-degree manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide. A local Mavis branch(Auto tyre & brake shop) that inspected the limo has also been sued by family members, the Albany Times Union reports.

The New York State police said the Schoharie crash was caused by catastrophic brake failure, but the NTSB said it had not reached that conclusion and would continue the investigation.

Written by Lanning Taliaferro-

The NTSB also called for new national requirements for seating and seatbelt systems on limousines. The recommendations:

~The National Highway Safety Administration require lap/shoulder belts for each passenger seating position on all new vehicles modified to be used as limousines.

~The NHTSA also require seating systems in these vehicles to meet minimum performance standards to ensure their integrity during a crash. "It's disheartening to learn that some passenger vehicles are legally on the road that don't offer passengers well-designed seats and seatbelts," said Robert L. Sumwalt. "All vehicle occupants should have the same level of protection, wherever they are seated. And everyone should use seatbelts whenever they are available."

The Schoharie limo hadn't been properly registered, had not been certified, and had been ordered out of service by a DOT inspector for various safety reasons, according to the Albany Times Union.

Criminal and civil cases are in the courts. the operator of Prestige Limousine, Nauman Hussain, faces 40 counts of second degree manslaughter and criminally negligent homcide. A local Mais branch(Auto tyre & brake shop) that inspected the limo has been sued by family members, the Times Union reports.

The New York State police said the Schoharie crash was caused by catastrophic brake failure, but the NTSB said it had not reached that conclusion & would continue the investigation.

Written by Lanning Taliaferro


*Edit to get rid of empty space below*
 
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det107

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~Jacobson praises new stretch limo legislation~

Assemblymember Jonathan G. Jacobson (D-104) is praising a new package of legislation regulating the stretch limousine industry. In response to the tragic 2018 crash in Schoharie, the legislation passed both the Assembly and Senate this week.

Jacobsonsaid, "I am proud to have co-sponsored this much-needed legislation. For too long, stretch limousines have occupied a regulatory no-man's land. Moving forward, passengers can be confident that the vehicle they or their loved ones are riding in will get them safely to their destination."

The limousine regulations and passenger safety legislation includes:

~A712-A Drug and Alcohol testing: This bill requires pre-employment and random drug/alcohol testing in large for-hire vehicles.

~A9058 Commercial GPS Requirements: This bill requires stretch limousines to use commercial GPS devices to assist them in using roads that are best suited for their vehicles.

~A8172-B Increased penalties for Illegal U-Turns: This bill expands the U-turn ban to stretch limousines capable of carrying nine or more passengers, including the driver, and increases the financial and criminal penalties for drivers making illegal U-turns.

~A9057 Seatbelt Requirements: This bill requires stretch limousines to be equipped with seatbelts for every passenger for which this vehicle is rated. This includes a requirement for stretch limousines to be retrofitted with seatbelts no later than January 1, 2023, and for any stretch limousine modified on or after January 1, 2021 to be equipped with seatbelts.

~A8990 Seatbelt Requirements: This bill requires taxi or livery passengers 16 and older to wear seatbelts regardless of their seating position and prohibit a person from operating the taxi or livery unless all passengers between the ages of eight and 15 are wearing seatbelts.

~A9056 Immobilization of Defective Limos: This bill authorizes the department of Transportation (DOT) to immobilize or impound a stretch limousine that fails DOT safety inspections and place them out of service.

~A8474-A Commercial Driving "Endorsement" Requirement: Relates to stretch limousine safety and changes the class of license required and capable to operate such limousine with nine or more passengers.

~A8214-B Customer Service Requirements: Relates to requiring the commissioner to establish methods of reporting safety issues with limousines. DOT and DMV have a hotline and website to report infractions.
 

det107

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Wikipedia has pics under Schoharie limousine crash...

Not sure of date of accident, 2 reportedly on Oct. 6th & Oct. 8th-
 

det107

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~Agencies blamed in limo horror ~

The wedding-limo crash that killed 20 people in upstate Schoharie in 2018 was partly caused by do-nothing regulators from two state agencies, the NTSB said in its final report Tuesday.

Workers at the Dept of Transportation (DOT) and the Dept of Motor Vehicles (DMV) failed to act on a slew of violations, including some involving the limo's faulty brakes, while the vehicle's owner showed an "egregious disregard for safety," the report said.

"Seventeen young people made the smart, safe decision to arrange for sober transportation when celebrating," Michael Graham, a National Transportation Safety Board member, said during an on-line hearing, referring to the limo occupants who died along with their hired driver & two people hit by the limousine.

"They put their trust & safety into a system designed to protect them, and it failed."
 

det107

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Found out a detail, will try to get rest of information later~

*The Prestige Limo company's operator, Nauman Hussain, of Schoharie County will NOT be getting jail time-
 

det107

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~From the Observer-Dispatch by Jon Campbell

The operator of a Saratoga County limousine company will not serve jail time for his role in a 2018 wreck that killed 20 people, accepting a plea deal that angered many of the victim's family members who felt it was not harsh enough.

Nauman Hussain, 31, pleaded guilty Thursday afternoon in Schoharie county court to 20 counts of criminally negligent homicide - a low-level felony - in connection with the Oct. 6 crash, which at the time was the deadliest road wreck in 13 years.

Judge George Bartlett III accepted Hussain's plea agreement during a four-hour hearing in a makeshift courtroom inside the Schoharie Central Schools gymnasium, where it was held to accommodate a crowd of about 100 that included more than 15 family members of the deceased who delivered victim impact statements.

The deal, agreed to by Hussain and Schoharie County district Attorney Susan Mallery, called for a sentence of five years probation and 1,000 hours of community service. Hussain will officially receive his sentence after a two-year interim probation period, Bartlett said.

Bartlett acknowledged many will find Hussain's sentence to be "way too light." But he cited various issues that could have thrown a jury trial into doubt, including questions surrounding maintenance on the limo performed at a tire shop as well as the state's oversight of Hussain's business.

"It just does not seem right that 20 people lost their life and the sentence is probation and community service," Bartlett said. "But there are factual issues with regard to the defendant's guilt.

Prestige Limousine, Hussain's company, was the owner of a 2001 Ford Excursion stretch limo that barreled through a "T" intersection at the bottom of a steep hill in the rural town of Schoharie, about 30 miles west of Albany.

The limo crashed into a SUV parked in the Apple Barrel Country Store's parking lot, killing the driver, all 17 passengers and two bystanders.

The limousine appeared to suffer brake failure and reached speeds of 100 mph as it descended, according to the national Transportation Safety Board.

The NTSB was highly critical of Prestige Limo, noting the vehicle was ordered out of service by the New York Department of Transportation prior to the crash because of issues with the antilock brake system.

But the NTSB also criticized a pair of inspection shops - including a Mavis Discount Tire in Saratoga County - that inspected the stretch limousine without proper authority to do so, as well as the state of New York for failing to seize the vehicle's license plates before the crash.

Bartlett cited both of those issues in accepting Hussain's plea, noting that they could have complicated the chances at a jury trail.

Hussain entered his plea after 1 p.m. Thursday, calmly saying "guilty" to each count as family members sobbed in the audience.

Bartlett's comments came following a lengthy, emotional string of statements delivered by victims' family members, who one by one took to the lectern to air their grief, remember their loved ones and plead with the judge to imply a prison sentence.

For many of the statements, Hussain stared straight ahead or at the table in front of him, occasionally looking at the speaker or dabbing his eyes with a tissue.

Kim Marie Bursese, mother of 24-year old Savannah Bursese, asked Hussain to look at her while she spoke. He complied. she went on to speak of the immense pain she continues to feel since losing her daughter.
 

MuntCuffin

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Our justice system does not serve justice.

It hands out punishments according to whatever political/cultural ideology you violate.

So it's no longer about justice, its about enforcing cultural norms and values. In this "new normal" your government does not see criminally negligent homicide as a big deal (look at Cuomo and the nursing homes.)
If you disagree, maybe you should ask yourself if you truly do have a representative government.

If you don't, why are you allowing tyranny to exist?
 

Ksand

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Our justice system does not serve justice.

It hands out punishments according to whatever political/cultural ideology you violate.

So it's no longer about justice, its about enforcing cultural norms and values. In this "new normal" your government does not see criminally negligent homicide as a big deal (look at Cuomo and the nursing homes.)
If you disagree, maybe you should ask yourself if you truly do have a representative government.

If you don't, why are you allowing tyranny to exist?
That's why it's way past time to hold the courts responsible, and punish them for poor decisions. Nothing will change until their punished
 

Cryptictoy

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I didn't read all that print, but I did hear someone mentioned that his father was an fbi informant. If true that could have been one reason it took so long and slap on the wrist. Seat belts or not the out come would have been very bad or the same. Was always going to get pics looking north of where they hit to see some of the decline they came down and post in the thread when we were on the other 4x4 place and never did . My brother in law was an emt there and mentioned that was quite the mess and stench was terrible from stomach contents and innards
 

crispins

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The guy got up to 100 MPH before the crash.

What the hell?

I don't get why he didn't put it into something way before getting to that speed.

I ride at Windrock park, to get back to the parking lot you have to go down a pretty steep incline for a while.

There are some crosses posted up from where people have lost their brakes and went off the mountain.

My tracker has shit for breaks, always I think to myself when going down that if my brakes start to fail I would put it directly into something on the hill side of the road way way way before I start picking up speed.

What was the driver of that limo thinking?
 
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plym49.2

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I didn't read all that print, but I did hear someone mentioned that his father was an fbi informant. If true that could have been one reason it took so long and slap on the wrist. Seat belts or not the out come would have been very bad or the same. Was always going to get pics looking north of where they hit to see some of the decline they came down and post in the thread when we were on the other 4x4 place and never did . My brother in law was an emt there and mentioned that was quite the mess and stench was terrible from stomach contents and innards
I have always wondered how everyone inside died - that those at the very rear did not have those in front of them as human pillows. Does your BIL have any other info? I recall at the time there was speculation that everyone inside (and maybe the driver, too) has succumbed to CO poisoning on account of the exhaust. That seems far-fetched but the question remains - how did all 17 in the back die?
 

subybaja

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I do not understand how people (families) accept outcomes like this. Do they have such faith in "justice", even when it has clearly failed?

Someone killed my kid, the best they could hope for is a .22 at night.
 

Cryptictoy

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I have always wondered how eve
I have always wondered how everyone inside died - that those at the very rear did not have those in front of them as human pillows. Does your BIL have any other info? I recall at the time there was speculation that everyone inside (and maybe the driver, too) has succumbed to CO poisoning on account of the exhaust. That seems far-fetched but the question remains - how did all 17 in the back die?

ryone inside died - that those at the very rear did not have those in front of them as human pillows. Does your BIL have any other info? I recall at the time there was speculation that everyone inside (and maybe the driver, too) has succumbed to CO poisoning on account of the exhaust. That seems far-fetched but the question remains - how did all 17 in the back die?
Next time I see him will ask a bit more, I do know others that were there too , said it was something you just can't unsee it. My son saw them pass by 3min before the down hill and said the exhaust was loud and trans was slipping going up hill and tached out. I'm about 4mi from scene. Google maps doesn't show how steep it is but a pic from the right spot will give a better idea . They were going at there top speed exploded a Toyota highlander ,dislodge a tree in the deep ditch bank at impact in 135ish feet . I may have a topo map I can snap a pic of , be a bit though.
 

Cryptictoy

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Couldn't find the actual map , but these pics should help put things into perspective . Google Earth shows 1.25 MI of down hill of the point of no stopping, they were most likely already at 55-60mph. From the mark is where most would hit the brake 1100ft ,impact area 550-600ft. The topo map shows rt 30 how it used to go, curved at bottom heading south. State thought it was safer for it to go straight to a t(no way
Screenshot_2021-09-04-22-25-20.png
2021-09-04 22.21.40.png
2021-09-04 22.19.07.png
for anything to at least try and ride it out)
 

arse_sidewards

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Dude killed 20 New Yorkers. He was taking out the trash as far as I'm concerned. Probation seems reasonable in that light.


I do not understand how people (families) accept outcomes like this. Do they have such faith in "justice", even when it has clearly failed?

Someone killed my kid, the best they could hope for is a .22 at night.
Because they're New Yorkers. They're part of a society that has a 400yr tradition of just bending over and taking whatever the state says. Not a chance in hell any of them will get even. That's completely foreign to them.
 

plym49.2

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Dude killed 20 New Yorkers. He was taking out the trash as far as I'm concerned. Probation seems reasonable in that light.



Because they're New Yorkers. They're part of a society that has a 400yr tradition of just bending over and taking whatever the state says. Not a chance in hell any of them will get even. That's completely foreign to them.
I share your disappointment with NY state and NYC politics, but it is unfair and incorrect to brand 400 years of New Yorkers as you did. How many examples do you need? How about the Setauket Spy Ring that kept tabs on the British fleet for General Washington? There is a church there - still standing - with British bullets in the walls.

What about Teddy Roosevelt? NYC police chief, NYS governor, and one of the best presidents we've ever had.

Jump to the present, most of NY is red. But certain areas on Manhattan, the Bronx, Queens, and Nassau County throw it blue. Tell you what, spout your drivel on any street corner in Staten Island and see what it gets you.

So fuck you and your assinine statement about 20 people who died for no fault of their own. :flipoff:
 

MuntCuffin

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No it is not.

The exceptions prove the rule.
Not really.

Or else the notion of white privilege is totally true.

You think your average white Karen knows what it means to struggle to make it in life?

Or did she make herself comfortable in life by opening her legs for a dude with money? Judging by the materialism so prevalent in suburbia and the morals displayed by their children...well, not for me to judge.

If you want to judge the masses by the actions of a few, then you are open to the same judgement. And then it just becomes a game of who can apply more force to who to institute their ideology based on their judgements.

Theres always someone bigger, faster, amd stronger than you. You are never the biggest swinging dick on the block. It would be prudent to remember that if you're ever wanting to get in a contest of force.
 

Mikel

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What about Teddy Roosevelt? NYC police chief, NYS governor, and one of the best presidents we've ever had.

TR was uber-progressive. He saw the Constitution as an obstacle to the power he thought a president needed to get shit done and got the progressive transformation ball rolling. In my opinion, one of the most damaging presidents we had.
 
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