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Negotiating tactics part 2, ran when parked

WaterH

WaterH

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2020
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602
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North Florida
So I’m looking at boats right now, but this really applies to anything with a motor. You often see ads that say “ran when parked” or “doesn’t run, probably something simple” with a very good price.

How do you guys handle this. I’m always tempted to ask them if I can go there with tools and work on it some before buying. I wonder if this is a good plan. For example, I bring a battery and a can of starting fluid. If it fires up and quits, I can figure it’s fuel and probably not to bad to get running. The problem I see is the owner will see it fire up also and then he’s thinking the price is too low. I don’t know if he would raise the price, but I bet he doesn’t go down, and after you leave, he raises it for everybody else.

I’ve not actually done this. In fact, the only thing I’ve ever done when looking is to confirm the engine is not locked. Would you guys work on something before buying?

Secondary question, I’m looking at a boat right now that has been stored in a climate controlled shop for over 10 years. It looks brand new, but of course doesn’t run. Do I want to just hook a battery up a spray some either? If it fires right up, would I assume it’s good?
 
WaterH said:
So I’m looking at boats right now, but this really applies to anything with a motor. You often see ads that say “ran when parked” or “doesn’t run, probably something simple” with a very good price.

How do you guys handle this. I’m always tempted to ask them if I can go there with tools and work on it some before buying. I wonder if this is a good plan. For example, I bring a battery and a can of starting fluid. If it fires up and quits, I can figure it’s fuel and probably not to bad to get running. The problem I see is the owner will see it fire up also and then he’s thinking the price is too low. I don’t know if he would raise the price, but I bet he doesn’t go down, and after you leave, he raises it for everybody else.

I’ve not actually done this. In fact, the only thing I’ve ever done when looking is to confirm the engine is not locked. Would you guys work on something before buying?

Secondary question, I’m looking at a boat right now that has been stored in a climate controlled shop for over 10 years. It looks brand new, but of course doesn’t run. Do I want to just hook a battery up a spray some either? If it fires right up, would I assume it’s good?
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Pay what it's worth in the condition it's in, assume the worst and be pleasantly surprised if it "just needs an o2 sensor".
 
Do the minimal amount to feel comfortable you know what you're buying while still being able to give them a "...a replacement/rebuild runs about $x, I realize it probably isn't going to need quite that, but with it not running I need to give myself some room to throw money at it."
 
If it's not running right now then that's what it is. It's not running and the price should reflect that. I would not buy a non-running engine under the assumption that it was going to be a quick and easy fix.
 
ANGELO said:
I fixed a non running 6.9idi in 5min in the guys driveway and was able to drive it a hour home. Still bought it for his cheap asking price.

Id say do a compression check and that's all that's needed
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Samsies with a uhaul truck. I looked it over, got it spinning on the starter long enough to see oil pressure and hear that it didn't have a dead cylinder then bought it before I made it run.

Go look at it. Low-ball the shit out of the seller cause it doesn't run. If the number isn't low enough that you can come out ahead for major expenses then it's not a good deal.

Never trust ran when parked or sellers that have diagnosed it as something simple. If it were simple they'd have fixed it and sell it running for more money
 
east_beast said:
If it's not running right now then that's what it is. It's not running and the price should reflect that. I would not buy a non-running engine under the assumption that it was going to be a quick and easy fix.
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This.
My brother once bought a non-running truck that just needed the stolen starter replaced.
The seller forgot to mention the nasty rod knock…
 
Vinman said:
This.
My brother once bought a non-running truck that just needed the stolen starter replaced.
The seller forgot to mention the nasty rod knock…
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With something like that if I check it out and am legit interested I'm gonna run grab a starter and we fixin' to find out. :laughing:
 
I generally try and diagnose the issue, without them knowing what I'm doing. It's not easy.... But I always plan for the worst when negotiating, and have parts priced out in my head before I go.

Quick story:
Ex gf's friend had a decent looking Oliver 1655 tractor for sale for 3k (my price). Went to look at it, and it's in the middle of a field with a plow hooked to it... They thought the trans shit the bed when they were plowing a few days ago and weren't willing to sell it in that condition.... So I popped the shifter off, got it fixed (stuck in 2 gears), drove it around, said I'd take it... "Oh, well... We don't feel comfortable selling it to you since it has a transmission problem... But we do have this 1465 we will sell you for the same price". And that is how I ended up with a turd of an Oliver that there's NO parts availability for, and the Oliver guys don't even classify as an Oliver.
 
Vinman said:
This.
My brother once bought a non-running truck that just needed the stolen starter replaced.
The seller forgot to mention the nasty rod knock…
Click to expand...
Who steals a starter?
:confused:
 
You fix it, the cost just went up, or I’m keeping it.
Definitely NOT going down at that point.
 
ANGELO said:
I fixed a non running 6.9idi in 5min in the guys driveway and was able to drive it a hour home. Still bought it for his cheap asking price.

Id say do a compression check and that's all that's needed
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Way back in 2012ish I bought an old bump-side f-250 from some stoner for 100 dollars . "Ran fine when parked a few weeks ago."

Nothing happened when you turned the key. So I just ghetto wired power to the coil and jumped the starter solenoid and drove away with a cool cheapass truck after about 10 minutes.

I beat on it on my property for a few months, then put the wheels and tires on my trailer, drained the gas tank for other things, and (very regrettably) scrapped it.
 
One time a shirt tail friend was selling me all of his old motorcycles and quads etc. pretty much junk. A full truck load and maybe a partial trailer. We agreed on terms and I was sitting on a bike, like a 82 Honda 125 4-stroke. I just casually kicked it over while winding the deal down. We had already agreed on terms I should restate.

Bike starts and idles for 2-3 seconds. He changes his tune and all the sudden the whole deal is lost. I don't do business with him anymore.

And I would probably approach a ran when parked as a worst case scenario. People change once they hear it run and they have poor ethics.
 
I once got a no start backhoe at an auction started. Then got outbid. That was the last time I did some shit like that.

I won't even tell a seller that it was an easy fix after the fact. I might need a duplicate title or they might want to sell me another car, I don't need them to have a sour taste in their mouth
 
Rockbuggy84 said:
They likely removed the starter and said it was stolen, so potential buyer didn’t have the opportunity to try and crank it and hear the rod knock. :homer:
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That's my assumption any time I see something listed that needs a cheap/easy part replaced. It was disabled so you can't hear it rod knock or find out the clutch is smoked, transmission only has reverse etc...
 
assume it doesn't run and pay no more than it's worth needing an engine replacement.

I'm not wrenching on anything in someone else's driveway Unless the seller says they guarantee it'll run or something assinine like that and then we strike a deal in writing that if i can get it running in your driveway, then I'll pay you x for it.

If a seller is dumb enough to let random strangers start wrenching on their shit before purchasing, that's not a good sign about how they treat/ value their stuff.
 
Also, I buy a lot of non running shit dirt cheap, like cheap enough they don't need to lie to me, and I get a pretty good read on the people. I often turn around and sell it, or parts of it, "I was told the engine was good and the transmission was bad, I bought it cheap enough he didn't need to lie about it, but caveat emptor"

On follow ups, I've rarely been surprised by getting a bullshit story from the seller
 
TrikeKid said:
That's my assumption any time I see something listed that needs a cheap/easy part replaced. It was disabled so you can't hear it rod knock or find out the clutch is smoked, transmission only has reverse etc...
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Been down this road way too many times.
If it’s truly a simple starter, or something similar, I know they are trying to make it so the buyer can’t do a quick check for deeper problems.

I went to buy a Jeep that had a “stripped flywheel”, so it couldn’t be started. But supposedly it ran perfectly.

I showed up with a buddy, said I’ll hook a strap to it and bump start it to verify. Seller got super freaked out, started coming up with excuses why I couldn’t and said that since it’s not insured.
I started laughing and told him flat out that the motor was junk and he was trying to hide it. Ironic enough, the Jeep was worth way more than he was asking, even with a blown motor. I gave him $800 for it and he was asking $2500.

When I went to swap the motor, I found that he took a grinder to the teeth on the starter so it wasn’t able to crank.

The engine had metal shavings throughout and a flat cam. All the rocker were cranked down so if someone pulled the valve cover, everything seemed tight.
 
For me, the price needs to be low enough that the part that needs a "simple fix" can be replaced completely with new/used or parted out and still end up being a good deal before I'll even go look at it. If it were truly a simple fix or "just needs X", the guy selling it would have done that already. Being partially disassembled or obviously fucked with in some way is a big red flag and if it still meets the good deal criteria it's getting drug on a trailer and hauled away before I start to diagnose anything. Maybe I'll get lucky, maybe not, but I'm sure as hell not going to try to fix it in front of the owner who probably already knows or thinks they know more than they're letting on. When that horrible bottom end noise is obviously free to fix loose flywheel bolts and not the shortblock they think it needs they don't need to know that.

Boats are even more of a gamble because they aren't easy to test, part out or dispose of like a vehicle. In your case someone has been paying the $$$ or taking up space to store it indoors for 10 years but can't be bothered to make it run and get top dollar? It's probably fucked, and in the off chance it isn't you still won't know if it even floats and operates until you get it running and in the water.

I like a good project but a boat in the size I assume you're looking at isn't something I would buy without a sea trial and survey or a plan and funds for a repower and refit of every major system.
 
I assume it is 100% fucked and make my offer accordingly. I have seen way too many people get screwed by being optimistic or believing the seller in these situations. Somewhat related, it is kind of annoying when someone sells a car that "just needs a tuneup" to be driveable. If that's all it is, fix it.
 
I really don't do boats, but to me a boat not in the water and able to confirm decently non-leaking would be assumed to need significant hull repair if I can't at least drop it in a lake and make sure floaty-not-drowny for a bit. Same for engine and drive, can't hear/see it work, I assume it doesn't.

Last car with failing trans I sold, I sold at a price point barely over what the "will buy anything for parts" scavengers were offering, probably $2-3k under fair market for age and miles if it was 100%. It still ran and drove but the trans was obviously bad.

If I'm buying, "ran when parked" is "collection of parts still bolted together" to me, it's worth the collective known-good parts that I actually want value, anything more is gravy. A Lambo engine in the backseat in factory fresh condition is worthless to me if I don't have a purpose/destination for it.

I've passed on several cars and trucks that looked like a good deal, but the seller wouldn't allow a test drive because bad brakes, bad alignment, blown head gasket, or some other "just needs a" thing. Nobody's selling a Cummins truck for $3k under market that only needs a clutch, but one with a cracked 53 block that can't be driven because "the clutch is bad and the insurance lapsed", better believe I've seen that. A Subaru with two blown head gaskets will still run enough to drive onto a trailer, but tell me I can't even start it up before money changes hands, it may as well be at the pick-n-pull and needs to be priced as such.
 
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