My Slice of the Pie, a long build towards a small farm

[Provience]

;n130590]

if you can get the electric, it can work out as cheaper per BTU than ng (which is stupid fucking cheap)

yeah i'll get some estimates on monday from the "utilities" to see what they want. If i can't get city power, then it's all back out the window and the outdoor furnance takes back over as primary heat

 

[evernoob]

well damn, i'll just run the a/c all winter then

I dunno, once i couldn't get over the 1.5kwh constant use compressor in the middle of winter, i pretty well gave up on looking into them.

If it's electric, baseboard heating is theoretically 100% efficient. It's just that electricity is stupid expensive. But if you're in WA, you used to enjoy cheap Electricity from the dams and PUDs, but I don't know if that's still the case.

This guy is using 3, 1500W baseboard heaters to heat his home up in the CO mountains, but he is using micro-hydro. He runs >3500W at the lowest flow from his setup. He also doesn't have to use 3500W all the time so he has plenty leftover for appliances and conveniences.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_...u3HollCKaKZYTw

;n130590]

if you can get the electric, it can work out as cheaper per BTU than ng (which is stupid fucking cheap)

Not here. I've switched over to just electric heaters twice over the last few years, for one month, at 68F. It effectively triples my energy bill. Heat pumps can't be more efficient than just resistive loads even a space heater with a fan, all of the electricity consumed turns into heat inside the house. A heat pump has a lot of the electricity leaving heat outside.

 

[[486]]

Not here. I've switched over to just electric heaters twice over the last few years, for one month, at 68F. It effectively triples my energy bill. Heat pumps can't be more efficient than just resistive loads even a space heater with a fan, all of the electricity consumed turns into heat inside the house. A heat pump has a lot of the electricity leaving heat outside.

coil of wire that gets hot
bunch of complex garbage that is a heat pump
what reason other than efficiency would one be run rather than the other, never mind that many heatpump installations have backup resistive heat

ETA: just for further explanation, the heat pump is pulling heat from outside, not dumping heat outside
unless you're running it for cooling, then it is operating just like any other ac unit

 

[Provience]

If it's electric, baseboard heating is theoretically 100% efficient. It's just that electricity is stupid expensive. But if you're in WA, you used to enjoy cheap Electricity from the dams and PUDs, but I don't know if that's still the case.

This guy is using 3, 1500W baseboard heaters to heat his home up in the CO mountains, but he is using micro-hydro. He runs >3500W at the lowest flow from his setup. He also doesn't have to use 3500W all the time so he has plenty leftover for appliances and conveniences.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCi_...u3HollCKaKZYTw



Not here. I've switched over to just electric heaters twice over the last few years, for one month, at 68F. It effectively triples my energy bill. Heat pumps can't be more efficient than just resistive loads even a space heater with a fan, all of the electricity consumed turns into heat inside the house. A heat pump has a lot of the electricity leaving heat outside.

electric is near 100% efficient (1:1) , but that is actually pretty terrible for HVAC stuff. Heat pumps are something like 7-14 : 1, natural gas is something like 4-8 : 1, wood gasification outdoor furnace with water hydronic heat is something like a billion to 1 (uses tiny electricity for the circ pumps)

this project is taking place in the rocky mountains, so local (on property) power generation is pretty well limited to solar/wind/diesel genset, with diesel being the most reliable especially during winter. Several weeks below freezing, even with decent insulation, is a fairly taxing load. If i can't get on the grid, all electric is out. My mom is a big proponent of all electric as it can be totally self reliant, but it makes a substantial change to the power load, it was something like an extra $50k+ just to support it

 

[evernoob]

;n130600]
coil of wire that gets hot
bunch of complex garbage that is a heat pump
what reason other than efficiency would one be run rather than the other, never mind that many heatpump installations have backup resistive heat

ETA: just for further explanation, the heat pump is pulling heat from outside, not dumping heat outside
unless you're running it for cooling, then it is operating just like any other ac unit

Well, heat pumps are more efficient if the temperature difference isn't that much. But at 0F outside, there's no heat in the air to put into the house, so they switch to resistive otherwise you'd need an industrial size HVAC unit to keep 2000sq ft warm. Below a certain temperature difference, they are effectively >100% efficient. But not in mid-winter at 6000'. Resistive heating is 100% (or 99% or whatever is list to heating your mains cables and the walls up) efficent,100% of the time.

 

[[486]]

But at 0F outside, there's no heat in the air to put into the house

0f is not 0k, bud
besides, we're talking ground source here

first learn about topic, then pretend to be a resource on said topic

 

[Provience]

Well, heat pumps are more efficient if the temperature difference isn't that much. But at 0F outside, there's no heat in the air to put into the house, so they switch to resistive otherwise you'd need an industrial size HVAC unit to keep 2000sq ft warm. Below a certain temperature difference, they are effectively >100% efficient. But not in mid-winter at 6000'. Resistive heating is 100% (or 99% or whatever is list to heating your mains cables and the walls up) efficent,100% of the time.

ground source is significantly better than air source, i guess unless you live in at the equator or some such. that is where the ground source, and sourced ideally into water, would be the most stable source. they want to run 100% of the time, but water to water doesn't ultimately even need as many BTU transfer, so heating 45* water (with a frost depth of ~48", the 10' or so ground temp is supposedly 45*) to be able to make 95* water (which really is about all that needs to warm the house) isn't as bad as taking 0* air or 32* air and heating to 110*+ to woosh around.

Tradeoff is that it is much slower, don't let the house get cold or wait a full day for it to come up to temp

 

[evernoob]

;n130614]
0f is not 0k, bud
besides, we're talking ground source here

first learn about topic, then pretend to be a resource on said topic

Nah, this is one of the ways I learn, and it's fast.

ground source is significantly better than air source, i guess unless you live in at the equator or some such. that is where the ground source, and sourced ideally into water, would be the most stable source. they want to run 100% of the time, but water to water doesn't ultimately even need as many BTU transfer, so heating 45* water (with a frost depth of ~48", the 10' or so ground temp is supposedly 45*) to be able to make 95* water (which really is about all that needs to warm the house) isn't as bad as taking 0* air or 32* air and heating to 110*+ to woosh around.

Tradeoff is that it is much slower, don't let the house get cold or wait a full day for it to come up to temp

Hmm seems like a pia but I guess you will never have frozen pipes.

 

[bigun]

This is the system we use for heating our 80 by 28 double wide at 6,500 ft in central NM
https://www.steffes.com/electric-thermal-storage/room-units/

They only draw power from the grid to heat the bricks during off peak hours, then during peak hours they just use the stored heat to heat the house. Our monthly cost is $255, for an all electric house and generall we get at least one free month during the summer because we over pay. Before we used an electric furnace which was really just a giant toaster oven, when it kicked one in blew all the cold air stored in the ducts under the house chilling you, then luke warm air would waft out, once the place was warm the element would shut down and the blower would keep blowing till the element was cool enough incidentally blowing cold air into the house. I was constantly replacing the plastic duct because the dogs would lay on it and the varmets would naw holes in it. During the winter our electric bills could be as high as $750 a month. Since we went to the ETS unit we have never spent that much, the house stays nice and toasty. we have one large unit in the living room which covers most of the house and a smaller unit in the jack and jill bathroom in the back that keeps those bedrooms warm.

 

[Provience]

cheese and rice

adding: Bear lake county, montpelier, idaho to the search terms. just spent 20 minutes trying to find this thread

 

[Provience]

PVWatts

Estimates the energy production and cost of energy of grid-connected photovoltaic (PV) energy systems throughout the world. It allows homeowners, small building owners, installers and manufacturers to easily develop estimates of the performance of potential PV installations

pvwatts.nrel.gov

link to a website that let's you get pretty close to estimating solar power availability for location and angle and all sorts of stuff



below is the schematic I/we got drawn up for a sort of modular/expandable solar array and the components to run them. This is more or less idealized around the battery bank as that is the most restrictive factor. additional batteries and solar panels can be added on in similar sized groupings while retaining a single generator

edit to add: mission solar panel install and user guide

 

[[486]]

check around for used panels, they're $100 around here, and some guy in nevada was saying they're $80 down there
they're "only" 300 watt panels and probably somewhat degraded to where they're actually like 280 watts actual, but if you can buy 4x more of them for the same money...

 

[Provience]

check around for used panels, they're $100 around here, and some guy in nevada was saying they're $80 down there
they're "only" 300 watt panels and probably somewhat degraded to where they're actually like 280 watts actual, but if you can buy 4x more of them for the same money...

that's an interesting thought about used, i'm surprised they are available and at a solid discount

it would screw up my pretty picture I drew though

edit: this is a cute place, need to bookmark it somewhere on the internet so i can have a reasonable idea of what size things are and what fits where and such and whatnot so that i can start drawing things out in my head next time i'm there.

Country Style House Plan - 3 Beds 2 Baths 1250 Sq/Ft Plan #40-103

This country design floor plan is 1250 sq ft and has 3 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.

www.eplans.com

overall dimensions: 46' deep, 25' height, 53' wide


edit: Find a Well Map - Idaho Department of Water Resources online well map

Error

This page displays when you attempt to reach a file or page that does not exist on this website. Please use the navigation or the search to find your information.

research.idwr.idaho.gov

what appears to be my nearest neighbor well attempt with no success. others in the area seem to be 10-45 gpm at 100-300 feet. This one ended up 0 gpm, 0-175' "boulders and conglomerate" 175-537 "hardpan and shale" 537-551 "boulders"....not the most inspiring of reports

3 drillers that have worked in the area over the past 30 years:

Westlake Drilling, preston ID (208) 852-3070

Mountain West Well Drilling, lava hot springs ID (208) 776-5322

Nelson drilling, freedom MT (307) 883-2531

approximate map grid: -111.455, 42.373

https://adminrules.idaho.gov/rules/current/58/580103.pdf

https://www.idahopublichealth.com/environmental/septicsystems/474190-septic_homeowners_guide.pdf

septic rules and general information

 

[Provience]

didn't take much for pictures this year, did do more walking around and putting sticks in the ground, then using the wife's phone to make marks on google maps. The marks are +/- 20' in some areas, close enough

fun picture from the north-west corner looking to the south-east, my kid who is working on a couple years now without getting his hair cut this is mostly looking at about 6 acres (rough guess) of area that I could probably actually make intentional grass to grow and save for winter. at least in my head

overall shot, each marker is a corner of something. trying to get an idea of where gates might go and how a perimeter fence might look. I got pretty excited about clearing out enough of a spot to put up a ~10x16' shed and then putting a simple fence around things, those are what i'm going to work towards for the next time i'm up there. convinced dad to have a corner to put his house on rather than going into a spot in town, and he is looking forward to figuring out well related concerns.

MS paint drawings are the best, so here is the first version, followed by the second version

on this one, blue lines represent where i'd like to clear out road path. basically squaring things off rather than the cattywampus the road currently takes through the corner. If things work out, dad gets the top corner, the next section would be for shop and barn stuff, so access on all sides is easy, then southern most square would contain the house, utility shed and space for solar array. Yellow numbers are approximate feet of sections

so yeah, more note taking stuff.

 

[Roc Doc]

I don't know shit about surveying or road building, but you're going to want to have proper drainage for when the snow melts so it's not a mud bog. Are you going to just have a dirt road or use gravel or grind?

 

[Mr.Ratbastard]

Hey!

 

[[486]]

haaaaay!

 

[Provience]

Hey!

i drew it in pink originally, wife said it needed to be yellow, so it got redrawn a few times

 

[Provience]

I don't know shit about surveying or road building, but you're going to want to have proper drainage for when the snow melts so it's not a mud bog. Are you going to just have a dirt road or use gravel or grind?

starting off with dirt, hopefully getting in fabric and gravel with time but yeah, either way it will need some decent side ditch stuff to keep it halfway decent. i'm also hoping that having a "pond" of sorts on the opposite side will give me a place to push all the snow while the ground is still frozen for retention and also to help with the mud.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

Have you talked to Nelson Drilling? He knows his shit, but damn is he an odd dude. The old man at least, pretty sure he still runs the place.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

You ever get your road access figured out with the neighbors?

 

[montrose818]

wait you paid 800 an acre for this? is it land locked?

 

[Fullsize80cherokee]

Gonna be a sweet place

 

[Provience]

Have you talked to Nelson Drilling? He knows his shit, but damn is he an odd dude. The old man at least, pretty sure he still runs the place.

talked to nelson drilling, he more or less made it sound like he didn't have his drilling rig anymore something about kids or something. I dunno, but he was hard to understand and didn't seem interested in talking to me

 

[Provience]

You ever get your road access figured out with the neighbors?

didn't bother talking to them this year, they were building a pretty damned sizely house so I figured i'd let it be for now. Turns out, the crazy neighbor who sued them over the property line has decided they "won't push the issue about the fence" for at least a great number of years, so i don't need to push the issue about access. the crazy neighbor was also much more aware of the road running through their property this year vs last year.

wait you paid 800 an acre for this? is it land locked?

not land locked, and sadly not close to that price anymore or else i'd be trying pretty hard to buy up at least one more neighboring property. hopefully the prices will crash again before I retire and somebody will want to sell

Gonna be a sweet place

Thanks! it's nice to have some direction.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

talked to nelson drilling, he more or less made it sound like he didn't have his drilling rig anymore something about kids or something. I dunno, but he was hard to understand and didn't seem interested in talking to me

He doesn't seem interested in talking to anyone, so you're no different.
When I was considering buying land and building, I called him for price and availability, and he mumbled some shit I couldn't understand and hung up. Figured that was the end of it. Three months later he calls me back, and without saying who he was, starts right back into the middle of the conversation we'd had months earlier that I'd completely forgotten about. He threw me for a loop, especially being barely understandable.

 

[Provience]

He doesn't seem interested in talking to anyone, so you're no different.
When I was considering buying land and building, I called him for price and availability, and he mumbled some shit I couldn't understand and hung up. Figured that was the end of it. Three months later he calls me back, and without saying who he was, starts right back into the middle of the conversation we'd had months earlier that I'd completely forgotten about. He threw me for a loop, especially being barely understandable.

well that makes me feel better

I mean, not good enough to bother trying to reach out to him again, but at least now it doesn't seem so odd

West Lake Drilling out of Preston not only had somebody answer the phone, they called me back same day and he was willing and able to talk about it for 10 minutes or so. As far as people to drill a hole in the ground, i'll probably end up trying to schedule with them just for that.

 

[Provience]

Got a letter in the fucking mail today

When we very first looked at the place, it was serviced off the county road by "road grant in memory of the person the road is named after" and it was better than two lines in the mud, but only a little bit better, and it didn't go much past that persons property, about a mile short of where i'm at. No big deal, it was better than i expected to see.

Then a year or a couple years ago, somebody went ahead and built up the road a whole bunch more. did a nice enough job, but again, the road turns about a mile away so not a big deal to me.

So this letter comes in: "hey, i'm such and such, and as you know the road has been improved greatly. Me and these couple other people have decided we are the people who care, and are asking all 30 people we think are serviced by this road to send in some money. Please send $200 to me, and if we raise enough money we can make the road even better and add more spurs"

well then, I don't know how much gravel costs, but there is no way in fucking hell that $6k is going to do fuckall The only road improvement i actually want is to dig a ditch and put a culvert under one spot on my neighbors where it is very low and stays wet nearly year round, but i'm also the only person who "needs" to cross over that spot. Figured i'd just pay for it as long as they don't complain, but no time soon.

So anyways, yeah. Send a couple hundred bucks. no quote from anybody about what it might cost. no detail on what it would be used for. no total goal desired or even a hint if this will become a regular "request", and it's some shit that I don't particularly care about.


anyways, just a mini rant about my wife saying "I told ya so" for trying to buy something a decade before we can really use it on the hope that it wouldn't change too dramatically before we get there.

 

[Wheelin66bronco]

And pretty soon they'll want to start an HOA, this is just step one.

I've got no issues kicking down for road improvement, but I'm with you. I wanna see a plan and total cost.

 

[Provience]

And pretty soon they'll want to start an HOA, this is just step one.

I've got no issues kicking down for road improvement, but I'm with you. I wanna see a plan and total cost.

that's really the biggest concern, if they want to make this regular without a plan and just "save up, just in case" while calling it the HOA for road maint.

better roads just mean more annual maint. cost. even the county road is just gravel and "3 season". I'm not sure what their end goal is for this road, but it was fine enough for me when it was still dirt to plan on living there. Plowing above dirt to have an ice road base is easy enough and pretty damn low risk of screwing things up


edit: unrelated edit Country House Plan - 3 Bedrooms, 3 Bath, 1371 Sq Ft Plan 79-103 just to tag this neat looking house plan