My recycle bucket

[ScottRS]

1.6:1 roller rockers. Nothing exotic, it looked like I could maybe go 1.7:1 but with flatter pistons would likely have problems if I did that. I was specifically trying to avoid costly/custom machine work (like flycutting pistons) and most of what else I could find, said to expect that.

Cam is a trick flow stage 1, 275/279 duration, .499/.510 lift, 112 separation. Also not exotic, just a bit of pep over stock.

Also visible here, I added a pair of wideband bosch knock sensors. Same sensor as an LS uses, approximately same location in the block as I understand it. I had to cut out a notch in the rear intake valley gasket for the wiring to pass through, and goop it thoroughly with rtv. The Megasquirt is set up with which sensors are relevant for which cylinders, and based on engine position (crank/cam sensor combo) can differentiate which cylinder(s) are knocking. I'm not advanced enough on engine tuning yet to really benefit from that.

 

[ScottRS]

I'd previously run a microsquirt in batch injection and waste spark, for this build I wanted better boost and knock management, more I/o, and that meant stepping up to Megasquirt. For sequential control, the ecu needs to know if a cylinder is on compression or exhaust, and just a crank position sensor, isn't enough for that. Unfortunately, ford didn't really make a cam position only sensor for the 351 that I know of, they did for the 302, but the oil pump drive is different. So I made a half n half. Housing is 302, shaft is 351, with a partial moon cam wheel (it only needs to know #1 tdc then follows firing order from there). It uses the 302 cam position sensor for an early-2000's explorer.

 

[ScottRS]

I figured I would clarify a bit more on some of the engine/injection stuff going on. The 351 I started with had a four lobe crank position pickup wheel, not useful to me, but the same ID/OD/position as a 2001ish Explorer has. Uses the same crank position sensor as the Explorer, but a different balancer. I got the Explorer wheel (36 theoretical teeth, one missing to tell the computer how to find TDC) and pushed it onto the 351 balancer accordingly.

 

[ScottRS]

The Megasquirt that I'm using has native resistor-type inputs for a few things (air intake temp, coolant temp) and a canned profile for those sensors. Also has native 5V inputs for basically anything you want, and instructions on how to make a resistor sensor into a 5V sensor with pull-up resistors. I added PS temp, trans temp, fuel pressure, oil pressure, into the thing. It has two knock sensor inputs and two O2 sensor inputs natively, TPS is native, so I just wired up for those. Same with cam and crank position, they're already there, just choose to use (or not to) and rock-n-roll. MAP is actually integral into the box itself, so you just run a hose to it. It's a 3-bar MAP sensor standard (I don't know if that's "gauge" or "absolute" 3 bar, I'm assuming absolute, but that's still 30psi of boost).

 

[ScottRS]

This, plus a little bit of geekery (not much) allows me to bluetooth my engine computer to a laptop for tuning or a tablet for a dash. This is my dash, GPS speedo, tach, coolant temp, oil pressure, trans temp, fuel pressure, intake air temp, barometric pressure, MAP, left O2, right O2, boost solenoid duty cycle, and IAC duty cycle. A bit cluttered, but not bad. Can page quickly between this and navigation as well. I don't presently use this for music but do have the option if/when I put a head unit in.

 

[ScottRS]

My oil and fuel pressure sensors are aftermarket for '01 Dodge/Cummins oil pressure sensors. They read roughly 0-110psi on a 0-5V scale, so just-about-perfect for this application. Since they're readily available automotive-wise as well, if one fails me, I can just roll into my local auto parts store and grab another. Temp sensors, I went similarly generic and used '90's Chevy coolant temp sensors for almost everything. Air intake I used '90's Chevy air temp. Same idea, one goes bad, roll to the auto parts store, drop $12, and I'm good. I usually have spares of most of my sensors stashed in my truck anyway. Boost control solenoid is factory Volvo, so for the whopping $5 each (?) I got two.

 

[ScottRS]

O2 sensors, I have failed to find a cheap route to go, so they're both Innovate LC-2's. I had one in the buggy from before, so it came over; I bought one more to put in the other side on the Jeep for a bit of sanity-check and redundancy. I've had not-great-luck with wideband O2 sensor life in offroad toys in the past, so having a spare already rolling and ready to go is a nice thing. If one fully craps-out I can fairly-easily tell the computer that I don't care about it, use the other.

 

[ScottRS]

So time to fix an early(ish) screwup. Time will tell if mobil1syn gets to gloat (more) on telling me so, but I have the belly tank out for a couple further modifications. Whether I like it or not, he's right on the fuel tank heating and in tank pump comments a while back, but I'm going to keep trying to do wrong, enough to make right, at least a little while longer. I'm stubborn and value my time pretty low.

I mentioned earlier in this thread problems with overheating the fuel. I'll be heat wrapping the tank and adding shields between the trans and it, and between the exhaust and it.

Other mod is less critical (yet) but I added tubes inside so the tank acts as a fuel trap. So what goes in, can't get out when it is tipped rearwards. When it's flat or tipped forwards, fuel can go in fairly easily. The tubes run from the back where the feed hoses hit, internally to about 1/4" off the front wall, and are supported by the center baffle as well as being welded in.

On the semi brag side, I ran it more or less out of gas before pulling the tank. I knew the tank couldn't be "dropped", it only comes out by picking it up through where the passenger seat sits. I ran it until it basically wouldn't run any more for want of fuel pressure (I have a fuel pressure sensor) and it was a hot day, so I found if I let it cool completely off, it'd make fuel pressure again. When I drained the tank, there was less than 2 quarts of gas in it. So my multi pickup with inline filters to pretend to be a hydramat, works pretty well. To be clear, I have six pickup points and two fuel pumps (three pickups each) in an effort to have most angles and decent redundancy covered, along with enough fuel supply for whatever shenanigan levels I'm willing to push.

On to shenanigans... I added a boost control solenoid and have gotten the engine tuning better but not 100% yet. I'm creeping slowly up the table (rpm and load both) and have slacked for the last couple months because of fuel heating and just simply other (non-jeep) stuff to do. The last time I drove it, I'd worked my way far enough up the table to kiss 12psi of boost (about double what I'd expected the Volvo turbos to handle). If that's consistently reachable, this thing will be making a bit more horsepower than I'd planned. Initial goal was 300 at the wheels at 10k feet, 12psi should be enough to hit/beat 600 at the crank. Not sure I have enough primary cooling to run at that level for long.

 

[WaterH]

For some reason I haven't been getting updates on this thread. It worked now and I got to review a bunch of posts. Looks great!

 

[HELL BOUND]

I dig the tablet dash. I'd like to do something like that when I do my new build.

 

[ScottRS]

Little bit of heat wrap on the belly tank and hopefully things will be significantly improved.

 

[ScottRS]

I have discovered another unintended-consequence: I boatsided it, and skinned the whole underside with UHMW. That's cool, and slick, and nifty, until you want to hilift it on the nerf bars. I can't. Anywhere between the tires, it's all boatside. Not necessarily bad, but may be a pain in the butt from time to time.

The fuel trap I built into the belly tank while it was out seems to be a good thing, heat wrap also a good thing, the fuel system collectively holds about 27 gallons, but it looks like I don't have enough radiator surge tank for my system, and I have a front of engine oil leak somewhere as well. May have a small steering reservoir leak as well, either the weld for the radiator neck on the reservoir, or where its surge line attaches, is wet.

 

[welndmn]

More updates, I love this!

 

[WaterH]

I have discovered another unintended-consequence: I boatsided it, and skinned the whole underside with UHMW. That's cool, and slick, and nifty, until you want to hilift it on the nerf bars. I can't. Anywhere between the tires, it's all boatside. Not necessarily bad, but may be a pain in the butt from time to time.

Maybe you could make an adapter to the high lift that could hook to select locations.

 

[HELL BOUND]

I have discovered another unintended-consequence: I boatsided it, and skinned the whole underside with UHMW. That's cool, and slick, and nifty, until you want to hilift it on the nerf bars. I can't. Anywhere between the tires, it's all boatside. Not necessarily bad, but may be a pain in the butt from time to time.

The fuel trap I built into the belly tank while it was out seems to be a good thing, heat wrap also a good thing, the fuel system collectively holds about 27 gallons, but it looks like I don't have enough radiator surge tank for my system, and I have a front of engine oil leak somewhere as well. May have a small steering reservoir leak as well, either the weld for the radiator neck on the reservoir, or where its surge line attaches, is wet.

Just cut a hole in it for the high lift. Where it can still grab the tube, it would kind of be nice that it's captured because it can't slide of or spit out to the side. And I don't think a hole that size is gonna hang you up on anything.

 

[1Sinner]

Sweet build and fantastic work.

 

[Lincoln]

Just cut a hole in it for the high lift. Where it can still grab the tube, it would kind of be nice that it's captured because it can't slide of or spit out to the side. And I don't think a hole that size is gonna hang you up on anything.

I told you that like a year ago.

 

[gt1guy]

If that heat wrap doesn't do the trick, you might want to try one of the gold reflective films.

 

[ScottRS]

From the "things you did as a kid that people would have an attack over today" department, I have another "didn't think that all the way through" item.

The "modern day bad parent" bit is, I took it to Holy Cross and let my daughter drive. This was her first time "solo" in the driver seat of anything bigger than a go-kart.

The "didn't think that through" is, I set the seat height for somebody with my torso length, not for somebody 5'-nothing. So she needs a booster seat to see over the hood. And I didn't check the rear steer lever fit with the seat slid forward. With the seat forward, you can rear steer right but the lever hits the seat when you try to steer back left. Fits/clears/works great with the seat where I fit.

Also word to the wise, if the weather forecast in the mountains calls for 30 minutes of rain and your vehicle has wipers that don't work, making them work even hacktacularly, would be a good idea. Forecast of 30 minutes of rain and two days of mostly cloudy, was more like 8 hours of rain on Saturday, and a couple on Sunday. I have wipers, they've just been low priority.

No issues of losing fuel pressure this time out (was well short of 100 ambient though). So far so good.

 

[Lincoln]

Sounds typical. Poor kid, no rear steering. Bad dad stuff rifgt there I tell ya.

We are working on higher speed stuff tomorrow. Lord help me. I am taking the station wagon so the wife’s junk gets trashed and not my cherocar. But maybe I should rethink that. If the boys can drive my junk at highway speeds without wrecking then the should be good in anything,

 

[ScottRS]

Longer term update, learning from my mistakes a little. So I was using VW coils because I had them, they were cheap, they worked, they were small, blahblahblah. Trouble is, they're waste spark coils, and have two towers per "cylinder" so I capped one tower per coil off and used four coil packs. The capped off coil towers didn't like that and arc'd through their covers eventually, one even started eroding its tower. Misfire, arcing, lightning show in my engine bay, bad things.

So I loaned my wife and kids to extended family out of state, hit the pick-n-pull, and got myself 1.5 LS's worth of LS coils (I like to have spare parts). No more lightning show and it starts/runs better now too. Probably should've just done the LS coils from the getgo.

 

[ScottRS]

And more long-term bits to add, ponder, etc.
I've not 'wheeled it much at all this summer because my daughter has been wanting to drive. So I'm letting her.
I did take the kids camping and general adventuring over the weekend. I ended up driving the jeep from Holy Cross to Mosquito Pass (about 30 miles one way) and back. Mechanically, the jeep did well, but ran hot on the road. I stopped if it got over 240 coolant temp to let it cool, which meant collectively four cool down stops in a 60 mile round trip. Trans, steering, and fuel temps are all within acceptable.
I'm fairly confident I don't have enough radiator for this engine, but I'm a bit space constrained with the jeep nose. I can fit a typical 27-28x19 crossflow but not much bigger without a lot of rework.
Been browsing summit, are triple pass radiators of real value vs single pass? The reviews suggest yes but are of very limited quantity. The fact that I can probably direct-swap and try it for under $300 is nice.
Also pondering a better water pump, I have what is a "high performance" basic pump, pretty sure all that's "performance" is a slightly better than stock impeller.

 

[WaterH]

I doubt a waterpump will solve anything. As long as it's pumping decent, it's not the problem. Some people think if the water pump pumps too fast, it will run hot. This is not true, but a pump has to pump seriously slow before it will overheat. Sounds like you know the problem. (Undersized rad)

 

[Pt_Ranger_v8]

I'd look for a thicker radiator before trying anything else.

Rodney Red makes amazing radiators, but since he hand builds them, they're kinda pricey. The one he built for my idi swap still works amazingly - after 10 years, it still keeps the truck cool even without a fan (as long as you're not sitting in traffic on a 100 degree day).

Well worth the money.

 

[mobil1syn]

I'm fairly confident I don't have enough radiator for this engine, but I'm a bit space constrained with the jeep nose. I can fit a typical 27-28x19 crossflow but not much bigger without a lot of rework.
Been browsing summit, are triple pass radiators of real value vs single pass? The reviews suggest yes but are of very limited quantity. The fact that I can probably direct-swap and try it for under $300 is nice.
Also pondering a better water pump, I have what is a "high performance" basic pump, pretty sure all that's "performance" is a slightly better than stock impeller.

when i asked the guys at CBR about multiple passes they said there was some increase in the efficiency but not a significant amount and packaging was the main reason you see the dual pass in the race cars they build for.

do you have an oil cooler? where is that at?

 

[ScottRS]

do you have an oil cooler? where is that at?

I do not have an independent engine oil cooler.

Summit lists (but doesn't stock--it's a month-and-a-half-out special order) a three row aluminum radiator in approximately my size, but with Chevy hose hookups, so I'd have to relocate them. I'll browse some more and see what else I can find. (edit: Speedway lists a 28x19 3-row as in-stock, and claims to have a thinner core dimension than Summit's despite claiming 3 rows of 1" tubes, that might be almost the ticket, only gripe is Chevy hose locations)

I did some more poking around over the weekend and while I'm struggling to get consistent readings with temp gun on shiny aluminum, it appears that I'm seeing on the order of a 60 degree temp drop across the radiator. That seems excessive to me, my gut says "water's not moving fast enough" with that much drop. The geek in me wants to put another temp sensor in on the cold side of the radiator (I have spare sensors and extra computer inputs) and be able to see what's happening there more accurately (and while in motion).

 

[mobil1syn]

I did some more poking around over the weekend and while I'm struggling to get consistent readings with temp gun on shiny aluminum,

squares of electrical tape will solve that problem

The geek in me wants to put another temp sensor in on the cold side of the radiator (I have spare sensors and extra computer inputs) and be able to see what's happening there more accurately (and while in motion).

do that.

i think you have an air flow issue at speed or you would have had this problem from the get go. i also wonder if your intercooler location is working against you

 

[ScottRS]

To be fair, I might have had this problem from the get go, but the fuel overheat was happening faster-enough that I didn't get to this. Now that I'm no longer overheating my fuel, I get to find out what other nightmares I've created. It's always run hotter than I'd like, but it's been mostly low speeds and short trips up till this past one.

I suspect my intercooler location isn't helping as well; between the lower-half-radiator stackup of winch-transcooler-radiator, and the upper-half-radiator stackup of PScooler-intercooler-radiator, my "natural" airflow through the cooler pack from just road-speed, is probably near zero. If I stick my hand in the airflow coming off the radiator with the fan on, it's pouring heat out; if I stop the Jeep when going uphill at 240+, it'll roll heat out to the point that it drops coolant from 240 to 200 in under ten minutes (engine idling to keep water circulating). Obviously, stopping pouring heat in is a big thing there, but I'm wondering if I have a dynamic airflow issue as well, if I'm inadvertently pressurizing the engine bay and it can't get out, despite that it's open on the sides past the shocks. I'll probably experiment with driving it hood-less and see what happens there. The radiator and fan are angled downward ~14 degrees though, the most open dump of air is down between the front axle and engine.

 

[mobil1syn]

Obviously, stopping pouring heat in is a big thing there, but I'm wondering if I have a dynamic airflow issue as well, if I'm inadvertently pressurizing the engine bay and it can't get out, despite that it's open on the sides past the shocks. I'll probably experiment with driving it hood-less and see what happens there. The radiator and fan are angled downward ~14 degrees though, the most open dump of air is down between the front axle and engine.

i think is your problem. between the license plate and winch, you may be sending all the air up and over the hood at speed. id try without the winch and hood . a winch without an integrated control box dropped down to be mounted at the bottom of the tube may be something to consider.

 

[The Freeak]

Can you build an air dam directly under the radiator to cause a low pressure area at speed, thus pulling air through the rad?