My new shop thread

[bgaidan]

I have the same band saw. I changed every bearing in it so it’s a smooth runner now.

Nice.

I haven't even run mine yet. I got the little rotary phase converter that came with my surface grinder wired up this week. Planning on running the grinder and saw off of that until I get the bigger PRC built. I had to order a new plug for the saw so I can actually plug it in. I've been trying to standardize all of my plugs. All the 220 stuff is 6-50 so I can use extension cords for machines, welders, plasma, etc. And all the 3 phase stuff us L15-20 twist lock plugs. Lets me share phase converters between machines and makes testing and troubleshooting a little easier.

 

[cj3a]

Do-All (Continental Machine Specialties Co.) - Publication Reprints - Model ML Contour Sawing Machine - Replacement Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

Do-All (Continental Machine Specialties Co.) - Publication Reprints - Model ML Band Sawing Machine - Parts Manual | VintageMachinery.org

 

[cj3a]

I added this to the saw. I prefer not to have the transformer for the welder on all the time.

 

[bgaidan]

What am I looking at? Is your welder not 220v single phase? Do you run a transformer just so you don't have to run separate power to it? Or is that just a disconnect so you don't have it powered all the time?


I still haven't pulled any covers to see exactly how mine was wired, but it came with this big transformer, plus I think it has a smaller one hanging off the back too. When they disconnected it, the transformer was hard wired to box on the wall, and then there was another cord wired to a twist lock outlet. I asked the guys in the plant what line voltage it was running and how it was wired but I could tell they didn't have a clue.

And the more I think about it, it really doesn't make sense either way.

The saw's motor can be wired for 220 or 440 so it's not like they would have had to step it up or down if the plant voltage was one of those. Unless it was some goofy 500v system or something?

The small transformer on the back I'm guessing was running the work light and the air solenoid they added.

Maybe the big transformer was only for the blade welder?

 

[bgaidan]

OK, it was going to bug me all day so I just popped some covers and sketched it out.

Main box. Top cord is power in. Side goes to and from small transformer.

Junction Box - below first box above. Bird's nest.

Small transformer on back of machine. Looks like it's pulling 2 legs of the 3p in (220v?) putting out 120v to the work light an air solenoid.

Big transformer:

So it was taking 460v 3p in and sending 220v single to the welder?

And my crude wiring diagram.

This didn't answer the question as to whether the main motor was wired for 230 or 460 and I'm going to have to pull the motor to get access to the cover plate to verify. The guys that worked there said it was 230, but I didn't get the impression that they really knew what they were doing.

There were two power feeds from two different locations (they had to hunt for breakers) that fed the main supply and the big transformer, so it's possible that they had both voltages available at the plant. But it really wouldn't make sense. Then again, I don't know if it makes sense that they were feeding the welder off that big transformer.


Worst case, I'll need to rewire the motor for 230. The welder, I'll just add a plug for single phase 220v. It not like I'll be using it often and I'll never use the saw and welder at the same time. I'll be feeding 220 to the phase converter so I'll just unplug one to feed the other when needed.



Only thing I don't totally get is what the green wires going to the welder are for. They appear to be switched from the toggle switch on the front of the machine that also controls the air solenoid and work light, which is fed off the 120v. circuit.

 

[cj3a]

The three phase breaker runs the motor thru the contactor and the two pole breaker is for the welder. The transformer is for the work lights and the welder like a mention before.

 

[cj3a]

 

[cj3a]

I welded up the hole from the Allen Bradley start stop switch and add this one.

 

[bgaidan]

Since this was my general "shop update" thread, I guess I should keep up with other changes....


A while back, actually, according to the dates on the pics I'm looking at from when I bought it home, exactly 5 years ago to the day, I bought this retrofitted CNC Bridgeport from Duc when he was still in AL.

This is right after I got it moved in to my old shop (garage). 3/17/2018

I didn't know a thing about CNC, CAD, CAM outside of the civil CAD stuff I'd occasionally get in to at work. Completely different animal. This sent me down a rabbit hole of days of YouTube videos and eventually I went up to OH and took one of John Saunders' (NYC CNC) 2-day Fusion360 classes. I picked up enough that I was fairly proficient in design and programming.

Fast forward to shortly after I moved to the new place, it started acting up on me. At first I lost the spindle RPM feedback, and then one day while doing some manual CNC, I lost my Z axis servo. I ultimately traced that back to a bad servo drive, which I picked up fairly cheap on ebay, but only after wasting another $150 or so when I fucked up the actual servo that I shouldn't have been messing with at all. So I get the new drive in and it was trying to work, but still wasn't right. I was afraid the new used drive may also be bad. And then life got in the way and it sat....for the better part of 2 years.

With recent changes in life and career, I'm putting a lot more time in to the shop. I spent a good chunk of last week and the week before troubleshooting this thing.

As it turned out, my drive was, indeed originally bad and the new one was OK, but after doing a whole lot of shuffling between servos, drives between all 3 axis and ruling out that any hardware or cabling was bad, I finally figured out that I had lost and i/o port on the board that was feeding the Z servo. A simple quick edit to the config file and swapping to a spare open port and my z servo was fully functional again.

But then I had a bunch of other weird i/o problems. Knobs weren't working. Config screens weren't showing up right. I was convinced that I had lost a bunch more i/o ports, meaning replacing the $240 main board....which I had already done twice from previous stupidity on my part.

As it turns out, when I was first troubleshooting the bad servo drive 2 years ago, I had reloaded the entire config to make sure I didn't have any weird glitch. And as it turns out, Duc had given me a nice, full backup of all the machine settings on a flash drive, which I made sure to archive and copy to several places. What I didn't realize is that drive had a couple older versions of the config on it and I inadvertently grabbed and old version that had completely different port assignments on several key functions. So, after reloading the correct config, the machine is back to 100%. After 2 fucking years of downtime.


The good news is that I spent hours probing and tracing wiring in the operator's panel and control box and I have 10x better understanding of how this thing is wired.

Time to start actually running this thing gain.

 

[bgaidan]

And now for another machine that I haven't even powered on in the over 2 years that I've been here.

About 3 years ago, I stumbled in to a stupid deal on this CNC router. I was picking up some machine vises from a guy on FB and he mentions, "I'm also selling a cnc router if you're intersted". Not really. "I'd let it go for $500". Ok, I'm interested. My truck was in the shop getting a new engine at the time so I had to run out and get a U-haul to get it home before he changed his mind.

Unloaded at my old place:

I made a few things with at and did some repairs and upgrades but moved shortly after and it's sat since then.


I uncovered from the junk that had collected on top of it this week. Unfortunately the laptop I had been using was now completely dead. No power, even when plugged in. Shitty Dell I got free from work. Can't complain much. Fortunately I have a full backup of the Mach 3 config and license so I was able to load that on to a spare laptop and after a few tweaks, got it fire right up. I may pick up one of those tiny fanless mini PC sticks to run it. I use an external USB motion controller with Mach 3 so it doesn't need nearly as much horsepower as those still running straight serial.

Confirming that it still actually worked, I have some more work to do on it before it goes in to service. First and foremost, all those controls need to be locked up in an enclosure. Especially the bare 120v terminal strip.

I found a better, DIN mounted 48v power supply to replace that big steel case one. Everything will now be DIN mounted and should fit nicely in something around a 12x12 box. Also have a bit of cleaning up to do on the wiring in general.

I'm also going to completely rebuild the stand. The entire thing looks like it was welded with a 6v battery and coat hangers. It's not at all level and it's a horrible use of space. I'll cut it up and reuse as much as the tube as I can and I should have enough drops laying around to do the rest of it. Plan is to to have some built-in drawers under the table for tools, tooling and consumables and then use the remaining space to incorporate material storage. Still sketching out how I'm going to do it - horizontal or vertical shelves or pockets or a combination of both.

Also working on some jack-up wheels or jack-down leveling feet so I can move it around easier. It's fucking heavy and awkward to move as it sits.

 

[bgaidan]

Got the Monarch in her final resting place today. This is a bit of tradeoff. There's a door on the back of the headstock base that gives access to the motor/belt tensioner bolts as well is the rear right leveling bolt. Ideally you'd have the back of the base 24" off the wall so you could fully open the door and get back there. That would just take up too much valuable space. I left it about 10" back which still gives me easy access to the motor bolts but will likely require removing the door to get to the leveling screw. Worst case, I may need to move it out another few inches if I'm not able to get to that screw.

Before I set it down, I needed to cut the front left leveling bolt off. This was the only carnage from it's slightly uncontrolled roll-off the tilt deck trailer. Nobody carries 3/4-16 locally so I'm going to have to grab one from McMaster.

 

[bgaidan]

Back to the DoAll bandsaw....

My assumption was correct - it was wired for 480 at its previous home. And my assumption that the guys that worked there didn't have a clue was also correct.

So I got the motor rewired for 230 and shoveled out about 5lbs of grease, chips and sludge while I was in the lower cabinet. Easy enough, other than being a greasy mess.

Before I bolted the motor back down, I fired up the little phase converter and checked to make sure it was working. Motor spun right up and was quiet. Seemed good.

I put it all back together and attempted to run it again. This time the contactor started letting out magic smoke. I shut it down before all the smoke got out though.

Thinking about it, I'm assuming that since I halved the voltage, I need to double the amperage of the heaters? Makes sense in my head, but I'm waiting for an industrial electrical engineer friend to confirm. I can get the heater strips for like $12 on ebay so I'm hoping it's that easy.

According to the square D chart, I'd need to go from the existing B1.45 to a B3.00

 

[GLTHFJ60]

The amperage requirement for the motor should be on the motor data plate. One Amp number for each voltage. Therein lies your answer.

 

[bgaidan]

The amperage requirement for the motor should be on the motor data plate. One Amp number for each voltage. Therein lies your answer.

The 3.00's will be here tomorrow. Under $12 shipped for a pack of 4.

Had me EE buddy verify the math and it all checked out.

 

[bgaidan]

The 3.00's will be here tomorrow. Under $12 shipped for a pack of 4.

Had me EE buddy verify the math and it all checked out.

Got the new heaters in the other day and everything seems to be kosher. Runs extremely quiet.

I still need to read up on adjusting and properly setting tension and guides as well as probably changing the gear box lube, but it looks like she's a runner. Just need to button the covers back up and she'll be good to go.

 

[bgaidan]

In other news, I'm on a push to get the "idle" bay of this place organized and usable. The side with the lift is obviously in regular use, but the other side is just a parking ground for junk and really hasn't been utilized for actual work since I moved in.


Well, over 2 years later, I'm still finding shit from the PO that I didn't even know I have.

How about a bubble boy kit for your motorcycle?

That purple bin was stuck back in the corner and then a bunch of my shit got piled on top of it. I remember looking in it way back and it didn't look like anything exciting. Finally dragged it out and unrolled it and found this.


If I had known about this during covid, I could have been much safer from the deadliest pandemic in history.

 

[bgaidan]

Something happened today....


First this showed up:

And then I drove an hour and half and this was there

And for some reason none of the pictures all the sketchy shit that took place came out on my phone, but now my shop looks like this:

And this is still sitting outside, gonna give it a bit of a bath tomorrow morning before I bring it inside:

Notable lessons from that day:
1) That 8k Doosan will pick up an 8.5k mill, but barely. It required a 3.5k Komatsu to help get it high enough to back the trailer under it.
2) The 12k Hyster had no problem picking it up, but struggled with the soft base in front of my shop. Got stuck and needed to pull it back with the tractor. Ended up setting the mill on skates and pushing it in with the forks. Without a load on it, the 12k was able to get up on the slab.

So I'm now the proud owner of a Fadal VMC40 and a Mazak QT8.

The Fadal is fully operational. High hours, but had quite a bit of maintenance done before it was sold. The guy I got it from only had it for a couple years and barely used it. Turcite was done in '19 right before he bought it. At least on servo and drive was replaced around that time too.

Ironically, I already have a 4th axis for it that I bougth at an auction a few years ago with the intent to put in on my CNC bridgeport. Never got around to it. I'll need to source the amp and some other hardware, but it's already "prewired" for it.


The Mazak is allegedly operational, but he apparently never actually ran a program on it. It was powered up and you can manually operate all functions from the control so I suspect it'll be good to go. It's a little rough looking, but overall should be fun to play with.


My shop suddenly feels a lot smaller!

 

[Duc]

Cant wait to help you spend money on the fadal and lathe. Also about time you bought a large machine.

At least now the chips stay inside the machines which makes life alot better.

 

[bgaidan]

Cant wait to help you spend money on the fadal and lathe. Also about time you bought a large machine.

At least now the chips stay inside the machines which makes life alot better.

This is all your fault.

 

[Duc]

This is all your fault.

When your ready to spend more money, I will supply a list of shit to order for it.

 

[bgaidan]

When your ready to spend more money, I will supply a list of shit to order for it.

 

[bgaidan]

Forklift is getting picked up today so I had to shuffle the lathe in last night. Still don't know exactly how I want it all laid out yet so the lathe is sitting on skates for now.

But first, the lathe's hydraulic tank was either overfilled or has a leak - there was oil all over the base. Made a mess out of the PO's shop floor and my trailer on the way home. So while I had a giant forklift, I lifted it a few feet in the air and pressure washed the shit out of the lower half, trying to keep the water away from the electronicals as much as possible. It's gonna be another week or three before I can power it up so it'll have plenty of time to dry out.

Don't love where I put the mill. Due to access requirements, I need about a foot and half clear space behind it and a couple feet on either side. Leads to a lot of wasted space....like that back right corner. I may try shoving it over a foot or two and then use that corner to store a rolling tool cart or something that can be moved when I need access or to clean out the chip pan.

And while I'm waiting for the parts for my RPC to come in, there's plenty of cleaning to do. This thing was pretty neglected as far as cleaning goes.

Good news is it comes right off with a little cleaner and rag:

Same for the base:

 

[bgaidan]

And sidetracked yesterday, pulled the chip pan for the Monarch apart to clean out the remaining oil and chips. Want to get this cleaned out and back under the machine simply so I can get it out of the way.

Got about 7-8 gallons of oil drained and there's got to be a good 40-50lbs of chips in there. The square hole in the top right corner leads to the pump and there's zero access to it. I've reached in as far as I can with a scraper and pulled out a shit load of chips, greasy looking and shit and some stuff that may or may not have been alive at some point. I'm not sure if I'll ever run coolant in it, but if I do it won't be oil, so I really want to get this thing fully cleaned out. Planned on degreasing and pressure washing once I get the oil and chips out, but I may have to cut an access hatch to get to the rest of that back channel.

 

[bgaidan]

Picked up some pallet racking today. I'm sick of how disorganized the "mechanic"' side of the shop has been for the last 2 years. I have a total of 7 24x36 shelving units and 5 of them make a little peninsula right down the middle of the shop and I really regretted doing that. It divides the space and makes the far side just a place to pile up random shit.

Gonna have to cut the 18' legs down to 12' or 13' to fit under the rafters. Planning to put 5 along the back wall of the shop - one between each vertical pole support. And maybe another one or two along the side wall. Gonna be a bit of work, but should really help declutter things.

 

[Duc]

Forklift is getting picked up today so I had to shuffle the lathe in last night. Still don't know exactly how I want it all laid out yet so the lathe is sitting on skates for now.

But first, the lathe's hydraulic tank was either overfilled or has a leak - there was oil all over the base. Made a mess out of the PO's shop floor and my trailer on the way home. So while I had a giant forklift, I lifted it a few feet in the air and pressure washed the shit out of the lower half, trying to keep the water away from the electronicals as much as possible. It's gonna be another week or three before I can power it up so it'll have plenty of time to dry out.

Don't love where I put the mill. Due to access requirements, I need about a foot and half clear space behind it and a couple feet on either side. Leads to a lot of wasted space....like that back right corner. I may try shoving it over a foot or two and then use that corner to store a rolling tool cart or something that can be moved when I need access or to clean out the chip pan.

And while I'm waiting for the parts for my RPC to come in, there's plenty of cleaning to do. This thing was pretty neglected as far as cleaning goes.

Good news is it comes right off with a little cleaner and rag:

Same for the base:

Ditch the skirt around the fadal, it will be nothing but a fucking hassle for you. Drop a bolt, it rolls under fadal. Drop a hand tool, yep rolls under fadal. Overfill the coolant or not clean chip off the coolant tank properly: yep flows under the mill. Plus then you can build the storage under the mill like I did. Fucker fits a shit load of gallon jugs or 5 gallon pails.

Also install a air cleaner on the top of your spindle motor. It will save you from cleaning inside the head area later on since it flows from top to bottom on the motor.

Compared to mine when I got it, yours is spotless

 

[bgaidan]

Ditch the skirt around the fadal, it will be nothing but a fucking hassle for you. Drop a bolt, it rolls under fadal. Drop a hand tool, yep rolls under fadal. Overfill the coolant or not clean chip off the coolant tank properly: yep flows under the mill. Plus then you can build the storage under the mill like I did. Fucker fits a shit load of gallon jugs or 5 gallon pails.

Also install a air cleaner on the top of your spindle motor. It will save you from cleaning inside the head area later on since it flows from top to bottom on the motor.

Compared to mine when I got it, yours is spotless

Smart. Doing both. I'll probably need to do thorough cleaning of the head first. It's just straight black dust/dirt up there.

 

[bgaidan]

Merging info from other threads time....



After fucking around trying to build a phase converter, and then buying a used one on FB that still wasn't working, I broke down and ordered a 30hp model from Southern Phase converters.

I also scored a good size 3 phase panel from the local salvage yard for $200.

The 3p panel is fed of a 125a breaker from the main via #2 copper. The RPC panel is fed off an 80a breaker with #4 copper from the 3p panel. The RPC then back feeds the 3rd leg back in to the 3p panel where it can be distributed to my appliances.

This chonker of an idler motor. I had a bunch of this 8/4 SO cable laying around so I used that for the idler. It may be a bit undersized. Gonna watch the amps once I start putting a full load on it and may have to swap it out.

After getting everything fired up and did a quick balance test on the RPC, I was happy. With no load, the RPC is balanced pretty well right out of the box. I'm within about 2 volts between an two legs.

Fired up the Fadal for the first time and was able to cold start it and then jog z to remove the transport blocking and counterweight support bar.

 

[bgaidan]

I managed to get the Fadal level over the weekend....or at least as level as I can with a Starrett 98. I really need to borrow or buy a precision master level to get it fine tuned.

Pretty much in the cleaning stages now.


Went from the previous picture posted in this thread:

To this:

Still have a lot to go that I'll do over time, but at least wanted to get all the major surfaces cleaned up. Pretty sure I already went through a full box of shop towels. Over time I plan to pull some of the easy to remove panels and parts and do more deep cleaning, but at least for the time being I'll get it so I don't get filthy every time I walk by the machine.


I can't remember where the PO said this machine came from nor do I know what they were cutting on it, but it surely wasn't a clean environment!


Gonna spend a couple more hours cleaning up inside the machine and then I'll get a vise mounted and start thinking about actually running a program.

 

[bgaidan]

Paint almost looks new after you get through the caked on grease, chips and way oil
Before:

After:

 

[PAToyota]

There is something deeply satisfying about just going through and cleaning something like that.