My new shop thread

[arse_sidewards]

I hate that about modern stuff. For all the technology we have these days, they just want to make it as quickly and cheaply as possible. They could easily church things up a bit and make things look like something, but "ain't nobody got time for dat!"

It really shouldn't come as a surprise that tools for people who manufacture things are examples of manufacturing efficiency.

Have you never hung around machinists and tool makers? You see "could easily church it up". They see not a single frivolous operation.

 

[bgaidan]

It really shouldn't come as a surprise that tools for people who manufacture things are examples of manufacturing efficiency.

Have you never hung around machinists and tool makers? You see "could easily church it up". They see not a single frivolous operation.

I mean, these lathes were built by machinists.

I'd argue it's more a matter of "the style of the time" getting taken over by the bottom line.


Around the same vintage, vertical mills looked like this:

And morphed in to something like this:

They also used to take pride in how they finished machines - ground down casting marks, filler, and a quality finish. Hell, they labeled stuff as "war finish" so you'd know they half-assed the finish because they had to, not because they wanted to. Now you're lucky to even get an even or full coat of shitty paint on a new machine.

 

[87BJ74]

I mean, these lathes were built by machinists.

I'd argue it's more a matter of "the style of the time" getting taken over by the bottom line.


Around the same vintage, vertical mills looked like this:

And morphed in to something like this:

They also used to take pride in how they finished machines - ground down casting marks, filler, and a quality finish. Hell, they labeled stuff as "war finish" so you'd know they half-assed the finish because they had to, not because they wanted to. Now you're lucky to even get an even or full coat of shitty paint on a new machine.

There is something about the style of the K&T machines, they really took the time to fill out the shape of them back in the day. My 2D Rotary head looks way better than a Bridgeport will ever look.

 

[bgaidan]

There is something about the style of the K&T machines, they really took the time to fill out the shape of them back in the day. My 2D Rotary head looks way better than a Bridgeport will ever look.

The K&Ts, Cinci's and Milwaukees of that vintage are all kind of iconic.

If I had the room, I'd have on of each just to restore and look at.

 

[PAToyota]

I mean, these lathes were built by machinists.

I'd argue it's more a matter of "the style of the time" getting taken over by the bottom line.

They also used to take pride in how they finished machines - ground down casting marks, filler, and a quality finish. Hell, they labeled stuff as "war finish" so you'd know they half-assed the finish because they had to, not because they wanted to. Now you're lucky to even get an even or full coat of shitty paint on a new machine.

This. Yes, there is is manufacturing efficiency and efficiency of purpose. There is also doing the minimum required and then half-assed slapping something together and sending it out the door.

 

[AlxJ64]

The K&Ts, Cinci's and Milwaukees of that vintage are all kind of iconic.

If I had the room, I'd have on of each just to restore and look at.

I do the best I can to acquire that vintage of machinery. Both of my lathes are the round head Colchester of the late 50s. Of course my Cinci No2 VM which is a beauty and a beast and Its seriously mostly a toy / art piece. I've got a round ram 1943 Bridgeport (SN #1304), that 1930s Barnes /Rockwell gear drive drill, and other various antique machinery.
Pride in a product is hard to establish these days when you're battling investors, bean counters, and designed obsolesce profit planning. The global economy and the "rush" lifestyle has consumed a lot of quality in all aspects of things. I'd much rather buy old vintage hand tools at yard sales.

That monarch you picked up is a work of art and I am jealous of you. There is one near me that is getting scrapped because it is government owned and the regulations on it say its too unsafe to be sold to the public due to lack of safety guards, etc. Breaks my heart. There's a similar vintage K&T going to scrap as well.

Boris Artzybasheff was a WW2 era artist who also saw things in the machines that many of us see. The internet has recently made his Cinci Milling machine piece rather pop culture-ish.

 

[arse_sidewards]

TIL a round ram bridgeport is "vintage"

 

[AlxJ64]

TIL a round ram bridgeport is "vintage"

Mine is at 80 years old and pretty sure they switched to the V-ram in the mid '50s. What you call vintage may not be what I call vintage, as I know when you get close to being vintage yourself, its hard to use that word.

 

[bgaidan]

Well, I haven't even managed to get the Monarch in it's final resting place yet and I'm bringing home another tool.


I've wanted a vertical bandsaw for a while. Missed a couple on FB that I regretted no getting. This popped up last night for $800. Messaged the guy and said I wanted it. He said he had several people messaging him but I could have it if I could be there early in the morning. Luckily my schedule is wide open so I shot down this morning and got it loaded up.


Not sure the full story. It came out of a big die stamping factory that shut down and they auctioned everything off. Somehow I didn't see the auction when it happened a few weeks ago or I'd probably be in a whole lot more trouble. This item was skipped over in the completed auction results so I'm not sure if it just didn't sell or if they had a buyer back out, but he's been selling a handful of things on FB as they're cleaning out the place. Either way, $800 for a Do All around here is a steal.


I need to dig in to the wiring. It was wired through a transformer, that also got with it. The guy that unwired it said the line voltage was 480 and stepped down to 230, but I'm not convinced he knew what he was talking about. There was also a cord plugged directly in to the wall, and also a smaller transformer that I assume was stepping down to 220/110 single phase for the blade welder and light and a little air solenoid. I need to pop a couple covers and see what wires go where. I almost suspect that line voltage was 230 and the transformer is stepping up to 480 for the motor...which isn't ideal.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

Nice fucking score.

 

[bgaidan]

Have I mentioned how much I love having a forklift? Pretty sure I wouldn't buy half the shit I do if I didn't have this thing.

Gonna have to figure out what's missing with this "power" feed setup. I believe it's just a gravity pull - there's a speed knob on the other side - and the chain wraps around the workpiece or a fixture to pull it through the blade. Probably not very useful for my needs.

It's a little more complicated inside than I expected, but everything looks good other than being very dirty. Not sure how much time I'll put in to cleaning it up, but I'll at least shovel out the thick crud on the bottom.

And the good news is that it's a dual voltage motor. Still not sure what it's wired for, but I can easily drop it down to 230 if I need to. Or better yet, since it's only 3/4 hp and constant speed, I may just drop a single phase 120v one in there so I don't have to deal with running 220 over to where I plan to put it, and i won't have to deal with a phase converter when I want to make a quick cut.

Even has a full set of blade guides inside the door. I'm sure these aren't cheap if I had to buy them all new.

Only fucky thing I see so far is that the original air pump is no hook up and instead they have a 120v solenoid valve that was hooked up to shop air. Guessing the pump died and that was their easy solution. I'll probably tear in to it and try to get the pump back online as I'd rather not have to run air to its location and I'd hate to have to fire up the compressor whenever I use the saw.

The pump is in the very back right behind the motor. It's still belted to the motor too.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Have I mentioned how much I love having a forklift? Pretty sure I wouldn't buy half the shit I do if I didn't have this thing.

Keep moving machines from the base like that and eventually you're gonna flop one over.

Then you're gonna start rigging them from the forks for stability.

Then you're gonna wish you had taller garage doors.

 

[bgaidan]

So this is apparently how the "power feed" works.

Chain wraps around the piece and the cable pulls it through via a counterweight. Not seeing much use for this for me....and apparently that geared work holder is standard equipment and is over $400 from DoAll.

But I do wish I had the original fence/miter gauge. I can't imagine what this costs to replace. I'll probably fabricobble the mount and pipe and see if I can adapt a cheaper miter gauge to it.

 

[bgaidan]

Keep moving machines from the base like that and eventually you're gonna flop one over.

Then you're gonna start rigging them from the forks for stability.

Then you're gonna wish you had taller garage doors.

Explain to the class how to lift that saw from the top.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Explain to the class how to lift that saw from the top.

Open the door and rig to whatever structure holds the top pulley.

 

[bgaidan]

Open the door and rig to whatever structure holds the top pulley.

So you haven't actually lifted or apparently even seen one of these saws before? Thanks for the tip.

 

[87BJ74]

Super cool and great deal! I almost had my hands on one of these a couple years ago.. Decided it wasn't for me, regretted ever since. They rarely come up for sale locally here in MT.

 

[ThePanzerFuhrer]

Super cool and great deal! I almost had my hands on one of these a couple years ago.. Decided it wasn't for me, regretted ever since. They rarely come up for sale locally here in MT.

You didn’t miss out. I have one pretty close to what he just picked up. By far the least used machine in the shop. I probably only put a hour or 2 total on it a year. If I did more aluminum plate work it would be used more but anything steel gets cut on the cnc plasma.

The biggest project I used it for last year was the giant styrofoam penis I shipped my Christmas gift in.

It if was a roll in it would be far more useful.

 

[bgaidan]

You didn’t miss out. I have one pretty close to what he just picked up. By far the least used machine in the shop. I probably only put a hour or 2 total on it a year. If I did more aluminum plate work it would be used more but anything steel gets cut on the cnc plasma.

The biggest project I used it for last year was the giant styrofoam penis I shipped my Christmas gift in.

It if was a roll in it would be far more useful.

If I had a plasma table, I'm sure I'd have no use for this. But I don't so I do.

I've had several projects recently where a vertical saw would have been way easier. I have the swag table for my portaband, but it's pretty lacking.



I guess I originally started a new thread instead of posting here....and it got lost in the great IBB crash of 2022. But I also picked this up around black Friday and it's been a game changer for my fab work. I've had my two evolution saws (the regular chop and the compound miter one) and I haven't touched them in years because they were never very accurate, and they're loud, annoying and send hot chips everywhere.

I fuckin' love loading up a stack of stock in this thing, hitting the button and walking away.

 

[bgaidan]

Back to the vertical saw. This is pretty cool...

This "thing" was wrapped around the blade guard when I picked up the saw. I figured it was just some random scrap that was laying near the machine and someone just tossed it on it.

Turns out it's the "etching pencil" that was an original accessory to the saw. You connect it to the blade welder and it makes a little arc etcher. I was flipping through the welder manual online and just happened to notice it.

Google has next to zero reference to it other than manual on DoAll's site and a couple forum posts mentioning that it exists. Can't even find another picture of one.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

That's pretty damn cool. This score keeps getting better and better.

Now you can put your name on your tools!

 

[mjlogan88]

If I had a plasma table, I'm sure I'd have no use for this. But I don't so I do.

I have access to both and I find myself choosing the vertical bandsaw more than you'd think. Even if you end up with a plasma table I doubt you'll want to get rid of the saw

 

[AlxJ64]

Thought of this thread yesterday...

That same model Do all saw popped up on FBMP for $450 local. I jumped on it as fast as I could but the lady listing it said that she was doing first come first serve and had a guy that would be there by 4p. I just couldn't get out of work / also am on lifting resriction after a surgery so FML. I didn't need it but I certainly would have snagged it and let go of the way too big of bandsaw that I already have and needs repairs still.

I also thought of this thread because I am stepping up to a slightly bigger lathe and will be needing something to cut larger stock. I have one of those hz saws in my shopping cart currently. I have a few side items to hustle and sell and then that will be my next purchase. That thing looks like it does well and isn't as massive as an old Wells 8m. The version I am looking at is rated for 9" OD at 90 deg so that should fully fit my needs with what I do around here.

Any updates on the Monarch? I almost bought a damn 24.5 x 72 but at 11k lbs and 14' x 70" I decided against it and am looking at a more reasonable size machine.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Any updates on the Monarch? I almost bought a damn 24.5 x 72 but at 11k lbs and 14' x 70" I decided against it and am looking at a more reasonable size machine.

You wouldn't regret it at all if you got one that size.

 

[bgaidan]

I also thought of this thread because I am stepping up to a slightly bigger lathe and will be needing something to cut larger stock. I have one of those hz saws in my shopping cart currently. I have a few side items to hustle and sell and then that will be my next purchase. That thing looks like it does well and isn't as massive as an old Wells 8m. The version I am looking at is rated for 9" OD at 90 deg so that should fully fit my needs with what I do around here.

Sounds like the same one I bought - BS-108G. The description on their page lists it as 10"x7.9", but further in the description it says it'll do 9", which is also what the sticker on the machine says. I just measured it and you have 10" from the bottom of the blade to the underside of the frame and about 11" from the fence to the blade guide with it all the way open....so I think you might be able to squeeze a little more out of it in a pinch.

Very happy with it. It's a game changer compared to my old way of free cutting with a portaband.

I did break a tooth off the blade early on so now it has a little "hop" every revolution, but still cuts fine. I haven't gotten around to ordering blades yet.....I need to order some for my bandsaw mill any way so I'll probably get custom ones from the same place. Should be cheaper than the $60 ones from Kaka.

 

[bgaidan]

Oh, and no change to the Monarch. I actually realized after I started moving in to position that I don't like where I was going to put it. I'm most likely going to get rid of the cinci and put it on that wall.....which means I either need to pull it back outside and rotate it 180 degrees or figure out how to spin it in the shop.

Wouldn't be so bad, but I have these soft spots in the driveway in front of the shop apron that the forklifts sink in to if I have any load on them. I need to address that at some point, but it's going to be a big of an ordeal. For now, I've been planning to pick up a couple pieces of plate at the scrap yard so I can bridge it a bit. If I can do that it won't be a big deal to drag it out and pick and spin it with the big forklift.

 

[bgaidan]

Today was "let's spin the Monarch" day.

I decided that long term I want the Monarch where I currently have the Cincinnati....which meant spinning it 180. Would have a been a lot easier to just have it loaded the right way when I picked it up.....which I thought I did at the time. :rolleyes:

So I dragged it out with the head side on skates and the tail on the forks. Got it as far as I could so I could keep the forklift away from the soft spot in front of the apron when I picked it form the side.

Worked well. Only got a little bit sketchy as the left side wheels started sinking in to the gravel/dirt. Takes some finesse to no spin the tires and dig the lift in to a hole but I managed to slowly spin it away and on to hard ground. Got it spun around and figured while it was outside I'd give it a heavy degreasing. I don't really like spraying machines down with water, but as bad as this one was, it was justified. Kept the water away from the carriage as much.

It's a nice dry, sunny and windy day so it's drying out pretty quickly.

Already looks way better. Still lots of flaking paint to come off, but I've taken care of the really bad stuff. Eventually I'll repaint it.

I may go ahead and pull the motor out while it's out here so I can really degrease and maybe pressure wash the "box" under the headstock where the motor sits. It's pretty nasty and will take forever to do by hand.

 

[AlxJ64]

This is great! I literally have to do the exact same thing next weekend with a machine; actually probably wash both of the junker lathes.

Thats a beast of a machine! Looking forward to seeing you get it up and running! Thanks for snapping pics along the way too!

 

[bgaidan]

Glad I decided to pull the motor. The tray under it housed about 15lbs of grease, oil, chops and schmoo.

All clean....or as clean as it's going to get.

That motor is a BIG BITCH. Ended up using the winch on my wheeling rig to drag it out with the help of a pry bar.

Hopefully that pulley will pop off easily....and hopefully the bore will match up to the new motor. Then I just need to figure out what I'm going to do for an adapter plate. I like the idea of the pre-made plates, as long as it'll give me the final height I need.

 

[cj3a]

I have the same band saw. I changed every bearing in it so it’s a smooth runner now.