Modern professionalism and work ethic - Am I getting old or??

[grumpy356]

I ponder this also, from the construction side.

Growing up in the business and probing my dad for info when he was still around.

Somethings post internet are faster, sending submittals is much faster than snail mail/overnight & ink stamp. Same goes for plan approvals etc

While reviewing submittals, or plans now takes longer....why that is could be debated...

Buildings take longer to build, this could be debated as well....red tape, additional code & inspections, Engineering requirements, sloppy workmanship etc...
My dad built a red lobster in 59 days in the 70's as a General Foreman.....Thats not going to happen today, usual schedule is 160-180 days.

I can say on a day to day as a pm, less seems to get done. More time is spent chasing answers, bids, sending updates, updating schedules, sending reports, photos etc. Same goes for phone calls. When the site super had to go to his job trailer and dial from a landline to make a phone call, he made that communication count.
Now its fucking diarrhea of the mouth from everyone.

I dont know...

"BUILDINGS TAKE LONGER TO BUILD"

I think that has a lot to do with this topic... putting in the hours... but MORE to do with the bureaucracy, and unreasonable safety standards.

You give my company an open area, and go fuck off, way the fuck over there, we can turn out some work.

We are working in some national labs right now, and we are losing our ass due to how long everything takes with all the safety bullshit.

(And this ignores the shit like Just In Time warehousing of materials that got completely fucked over the past 2 years, and the design by committee / meeting culture)

 

[u2slow]

Fuckin' employee mindsets. Forever a wagie.

Shit changes when its your own ass on the line and your own reputation you are securing.

BTDT, and content to be an employee from now on. Clients come in all forms of time-wasters and rip-off artists. I was not savvy enough, nor blessed with enough startup capital to power through.

Not all "wagie" jobs are crap... you do have to search for good ones though. A reputation is a two-fold dynamic. You certainly have to put your end in, but if your clients, colleagues, and supervisors aren't embracing it - wasted effort. I really saw this moving from one region to another within the same company.

Whether you realize it or not, this is a thread about Judeo Christian Work Ethic. (which is somehow uniquely American)

That's an American term coined later. The work-ethic is european origin.

 

[Levigarrett76]

Because it's so easy to send an email. And people have a tendency to check/respond to emails at all times of the day.

Think about not having a cell phone much less a smartphone. And you didn't have to be available IMMEDIATELY at all times of the day/night/year.

I have a love/hate relationship with cell phones. They certainly are convenient but they are also a royal pain in the ass.

I have wished for that for many reasons. I witnessed and partook in it.
"Emergencies"(omg my breaker is tripping, water heater is down etc) had to wait till Monday. Yet shit still got done in the same amount of time, or often times less, with much less stress/anger.

 

[Slander]

Whether you realize it or not, this is a thread about Judeo Christian Work Ethic. (which is somehow uniquely American)

And as someone who would probably be considered an atheist by many, I wonder what effect this has.

I believe we have one life, and that life is limited to THIS planet, in this body.
Everyday I have is incredibly important, because when this life is over, there ain't another one in a different dimension. Whatever I do in this life is all i get.

So do I spend my limited time on this rock concerned about my contribution to Mega-Corp, or MY TIME I get to spend with my loved ones?

I think this plays some element in this topic.

Interesting point. I know my quality of life went down the more effort I put in and $$$ I made, to the point where I left that mega corp job with nothing lined up. Back working for a mega corp, but easier to manage my time here vs at home, tons of lessons learned from that gig and really readjusted my priorities in life.

 

[NakedJeep]

If you can't beat 'em, jpin 'em.

I am coasting into retirement. As long as they pretend to pay me, I will pretend to work.

 

[scooter2374]

If you can't beat 'em, jpin 'em.

I am coasting into retirement. As long as they pretend to pay me, I will pretend to work.

The old Soviet mantra, I love it.

 

[Motorcharge]

"BUILDINGS TAKE LONGER TO BUILD"

I think that has a lot to do with this topic... putting in the hours... but MORE to do with the bureaucracy, and unreasonable safety standards.

You give my company an open area, and go fuck off, way the fuck over there, we can turn out some work.

We are working in some national labs right now, and we are losing our ass due to how long everything takes with all the safety bullshit.

(And this ignores the shit like Just In Time warehousing of materials that got completely fucked over the past 2 years, and the design by committee / meeting culture)

Don't forget all the daily reports they want.

We've starting putting in significant money in our bids just to cover all the compliance bullshit we have to do in the office now for every job. It's nearly a full time job just doing all the paperwork to be able to bill these GCs anymore. Especially this year since a lot of them started demanding lean waivers from both suppliers and tiered subs. My favorite bullshit is they charge you to use their billing systems. We have some contracts where that charge is $10k because it's percentage based or maxes out at $10k. Cool, we're putting $20k on top of our next bid for you automatically.

I don't know how our site supers get anything done between the weekly circle jerk progress meetings, tool talks, safety meetings, and having to do detailed daily reports. I'd never get into these corporate GC jobs if I was still working in the field. I don't have the patience for that shit. Hell we have some GCs we flat out won't bid for because they require mandatory participation in group exercises for 45 minutes in the morning before work can begin.

 

[grumpy356]

That's an American term coined later. The work-ethic is european origin.

I take it you have never worked in europe, because the european work ethic is NOTHING like the American work ethic.

European wasn't a thing then, and it's not a thing now.

European work ethic
Yeah, all those guys slaving to work for the lord, or king, or wherever you were in the system.

The American Colonies were DOOMED under the European work ethic. We succeeded as a nation because William Bradford. He saw we were failing under the European construct and threw that shit out the window. He Gave land to THE PEOPLE TO OPERATE AND RUN, creating trading, and commerce, because everyone was looking out for their own best interest and made the community better as a whole.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

I take it you have never worked in europe, because the european work ethic is NOTHING like the American work ethic.

European wasn't a thing then, and it's not a thing now.

European work ethic
Yeah, all those guys slaving to work for the lord, or king, or wherever you were in the system.

The American Colonies were DOOMED under the European work ethic. We succeeded as a nation because William Bradford. He saw we were failing under the European construct and threw that shit out the window. He Gave land to THE PEOPLE TO OPERATE AND RUN, creating trading, and commerce, because everyone was looking out for their own best interest and made the community better as a whole.

I don't know about that, but I do know the last time I was in Austria, businesses seemed to be closed more than they were open: Open late, long ass lunch, close early, no weekends evar.

 

[Roc Doc]

"BUILDINGS TAKE LONGER TO BUILD"

I think that has a lot to do with this topic... putting in the hours... but MORE to do with the bureaucracy, and unreasonable safety standards.

The Las Vegas Raiders stadium was built in 32 months, and part of that was during Covid. That's fucking amazing to me, especially considering all the other building that was going on in the SouthWest. Standards are as high or higher than any other city in the nation, fire codes for sure.

 

[u2slow]

I take it you have never worked in europe, because the european work ethic is NOTHING like the American work ethic.

European wasn't a thing then, and it's not a thing now.

European work ethic

My parents and many other peoples parents/grand-parents were european - with a work ethic. They ended up over here post ww1/ww2... fuckin busted-ass and hustled... and now you're calling it 'american'?

 

[[486]]

At least it was better info than commie shit from Felix.

I don't think there's a lower bar to set

 

[[486]]

So you are ok with illegals? Perhaps you need to think on it more or jump headfirst into a woodchipper.

I'm kinda entirely fine with the government keeping track of absolutely nobody.

Assholes sort themselves out in time, when the police aren't there to protect them from the consequences of their own shitheadedness

 

[Splib]

I take it you have never worked in europe, because the european work ethic is NOTHING like the American work ethic.

European wasn't a thing then, and it's not a thing now.

European work ethic
Yeah, all those guys slaving to work for the lord, or king, or wherever you were in the system.

The American Colonies were DOOMED under the European work ethic. We succeeded as a nation because William Bradford. He saw we were failing under the European construct and threw that shit out the window. He Gave land to THE PEOPLE TO OPERATE AND RUN, creating trading, and commerce, because everyone was looking out for their own best interest and made the community better as a whole.

The guys, the human beings that were brought here in slave ships . . .. what do you call that work that picked the cotton for the northern factories that made the fabric ?

Never heard of William Bradford or anyone giving away land to anyone. Learn me.

 

[gladman]

Whether you realize it or not, this is a thread about Judeo Christian Work Ethic. (which is somehow uniquely American)

And as someone who would probably be considered an atheist by many, I wonder what effect this has.

I believe we have one life, and that life is limited to THIS planet, in this body.
Everyday I have is incredibly important, because when this life is over, there ain't another one in a different dimension. Whatever I do in this life is all i get.

So do I spend my limited time on this rock concerned about my contribution to Mega-Corp, or MY TIME I get to spend with my loved ones?

I think this plays some element in this topic.

I was born and raised catholic, but I am no longer one.

I absolutely agree with your concept that we have this one time to be here and do and experience whatever we choose.

I also agree that everyday is important that I do something where I find meaning or make meaningful.

Some of that time is with family and friends. Some HAS BEEN working in corporate america where I loved what I was working on and was interested in it and see value in the work and the result.

In college, during summers, I framed houses in Phoenix for 3 summers. People live in those houses now. The crew I was on was with good friends who I love and loved working with. All valuable experiences while providing for 'the man'.

Meaning is where you find it AND where you make it.

Some guys can fuck up a wet dream and find no value in the most amazing of things. Some guys can find meaning in the smallest things and they add richness to their experience by being present in the moment and not always thinking about what is next.

That is the key. Choose the things you do and be present when you do them rather than always thinking about other shit.

 

[DMG]

I'm kinda entirely fine with the government keeping track of absolutely nobody.

Assholes sort themselves out in time, when the police aren't there to protect them from the consequences of their own shitheadedness

This is in no way an answer to my comment when illegals are being given free everything and are basically unrestricted. Then a census happens and lib areas with sanctuary citites include them in the population count so they get more representatives in congress and therefore more votes than sane areas.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

I stopped caring at work.

I'll match the effort of the general level that's needed for me to be slightly above the masses and get my full bonus and rate increase, then go home and put my energy into projects that will grow my personal skillset, make me money or let me enjoy life.

This is where I'm at.

 

[Bebop]

This is where I'm at.

Judging by the 27 (and going up) likes on my post, I'd say a lot of people are there too.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Judging by the 27 (and going up) likes on my post, I'd say a lot of people are there too.

Un-liked.

 

[[486]]

This is in no way an answer to my comment when illegals are being given free everything and are basically unrestricted. Then a census happens and lib areas with sanctuary citites include them in the population count so they get more representatives in congress and therefore more votes than sane areas.

Similarly I don't see this as a problem that can be solved through voting it away. Those idiots with power need to make life hard enough for those who grant them power that they're no longer granted power, not limited into a place where their power will grow through slowly shifting tides of public opinion.

The conservative vote only stymies reality from asserting itself.

Arguing for these problems to be pared down to where they're largely inconsequential has the effect of taking shit that should only be laughed at and forming it into something which will last in the background gaining legitimacy as decades pass. Just look to how we got where we are with big daddy state redistributing so much wealth that we're even having this discussion.
Sorry but any more I'm of a mind that 'fuck it, let them tank the dollar in their support of hilarious attempts at manipulating human nature, maybe that'll be enough to knock loose the mental blocks people got built up'

 

[DMG]

Similarly I don't see this as a problem that can be solved through voting it away. Those idiots with power need to make life hard enough for those who grant them power that they're no longer granted power, not limited into a place where their power will grow through slowly shifting tides of public opinion.

The conservative vote only stymies reality from asserting itself.

Arguing for these problems to be pared down to where they're largely inconsequential has the effect of taking shit that should only be laughed at and forming it into something which will last in the background gaining legitimacy as decades pass. Just look to how we got where we are with big daddy state redistributing so much wealth that we're even having this discussion.
Sorry but any more I'm of a mind that 'fuck it, let them tank the dollar in their support of hilarious attempts at manipulating human nature, maybe that'll be enough to knock loose the mental blocks people got built up'

You could have just said “apathy” and saved some typing.

 

[Clemson13]

I will give an example of modern-day professionalism and work ethic that is being developed due to the employer.

I am 31, so a millennial. I went to college and during the college years I worked near full time (on average 34-40 hours a week) while going to school full time and still maintaining my hobby of building, wrenching and wheeling. I was busy and thought I worked hard.

After college, I got a new job and worked my butt off. I was always on the road, won awards, got 2 promotions in 3 years, the company moved me a couple times and took care of all the expenses, etc. like they should in my opinion. We were considered a large company but a small fish in the big pond. We were small enough to feel like what you did mattered and they seemed to take care of their people.

Things are going well and then we get bought out by a much larger failing company. Horrible track record for performance. When we get bought out we were told we had to sign a noncompete. We were all given raises and we were told things are changing so I figured I will give it a shot. Dumb? probably....

So I sign it and continue on with hope that we were going to change the way things are done since they put higher ups from our company in big positions. Sure enough, they all leave within months. A few co workers get laid off, they find jobs elsewhere and are now getting non compete lawsuit threats in the mail after THEY LAID THEM OFF.

The culture is toxic. We shoot ourselves in the foot and then play the blame game internally. It's not great. So I start interviewing and get a couple offers in the current field I am in and once I tell them about the non compete they backed off and said the job is mine but I have to take the responsibility of any issues with this non compete so I talk to a lawyer and they basically I am SOL.

I look for some jobs out of the field and nothing has stuck. My job pays well enough, my give a fucks went from pretty high to near zero and I am trying to not let the laziness from my daily job spill into my personal life while I figure out what I am going to do long term.

So, in my case, I worry that working in this environment will create bad habits but until I find an out of the field job I am kinda in a prison. I do what is asked of me but I definitely do not do what I used to do.

Non competes are bullshit....

That sucks. My old firm had a non compete. But following all the other comments, I understood it to be unenforceable. Eventually that firm pissed me off enough by not compensating me while I was busting ass to generate 10% of the revenue for a 200 person company...so I quit. Got a job making way more, good career progression here, perks, etc .

I still won't go all out at 100% for work anymore. It's just not worth it, there's is little/no reward vs going 80%.
I put my efforts into client facing activities and ignore all internal projects we're meant to advance.

 

[Slander]

This is in no way an answer to my comment when illegals are being given free everything and are basically unrestricted. Then a census happens and lib areas with sanctuary citites include them in the population count so they get more representatives in congress and therefore more votes than sane areas.

Illegals are the strawman argument here, the real question is 1) why is the government allowed to steal from me and 2) why are they allowed to give it to someone else against my will.

 

[Sandy Johnson]

Illegals are the strawman argument here, the real question is 1) why is the government allowed to steal from me and 2) why are they allowed to give it to someone else against my will.

"Don't hate the player, hate the game."

 

[Hydromaster]

Hate both.

You can’t have a player without a game to play

 

[DMG]

Illegals are the strawman argument here, the real question is 1) why is the government allowed to steal from me and 2) why are they allowed to give it to someone else against my will.

We are 100 years past the point of asking that.

 

[Slander]

"Don't hate the player, hate the game."

 

[Sandy Johnson]

 

[Sandy Johnson]

My statement still stands.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Sure looks to me like taxes are lower when there's a few people that the buck undeniably stops with and who are ultimately responsible for everything than this finger-pointing nominally elected politician bullshit we have in the US.