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Modern 4 cylinder 4wd powertrains

IowaOffRoad said:
I’ve got a 20R with a 390 Holley. Off road needle/seat and a vent crossover tube. Runs rich once in a while but hasn’t ever been undrivable on any grade. I’ve started it in its side.
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Haven't seen a lot of success with anything carb'd out here....admittedly, your area may be different.
 
Sean said:
Haven't seen a lot of success with anything carb'd out here....admittedly, your area may be different.
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I wouldn't want a carb on a hard core wheeler or race vehicle.

Fine for a trail rig though.
 
arse_sidewards said:
I wouldn't want a carb on a hard core wheeler or race vehicle.

Fine for a trail rig though.
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Guess it depends on the trail....out here, there are a lot where it just wouldn't be acceptable.
 
Everyone here understands that the idea here would be an engine package with a high HP/TQ -weight ratio.
If it can get into the power quickly even better.


The 4BT mentioned above is absolutely great for power and simplicity but it is a heavy diesel. IF I was building a bug out vehicle it makes sense but not in a performance lightweight vehicle. I have a friend build a rig around one. Yes is works but has no off idle response even with 6.72 gears. It is obnoxiously load and smokey though.
 
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bdkw1 said:
2.5, no replacement for displacement?

LT230 for the offset rear output. If your going solid axle rear, the offset pumpkin offers better clearance. Plus AWD which would be much easier on parts in the desert section.
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That's fair, though on some of these newer option, valvetrain voodoo seems to make up for lower displacement but I don't know all the details of how any VVT/VVL compares between the two.

mjlogan88 said:
Some good ideas in my old thread. I went duratec and was very suprised how much low end grunt it had.

irate4x4.com

Modern 4 cylinder swap options

Considering doing something different with my '62 ranchero and swapping in a 4 cylinder. I am not brand loyal and this thing is trashed enough that I won't feel bad ruining it. Would like: - ~200 HP - Capability of bolting to a 5 speed manual trans with factory parts - Capable of handling a...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
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Crap. I thought I recalled a thread somewhere, but didn't see that one on my initial skim. Would have just bumped that one. Oops! I'll add it to the OP though because that's a good one.


IH, yeah this thread is about all the modern stuff, you're welcome to be stuck in your ways, but it just means what you like probably doesn't align with this thread

3rz is at least worth being on the radar I think, but probably on the lower end just due to age/performance.

Subi engines are interesting, but packaging flat 4s can be a PITA. In my particular application they won't fit, but I welcome the conversation
 
Go take a dump in a toilet mounted at 45° and see what happens. My guess is an ugly scene. But, if carb is life, why not carb a supercharged 2.0 ecotec:grinpimp:
 
FelixstoweF.2 said:
What about Sabrau 4cylinder engine they used to make 350+hp in the WRX Rally cars. Plus, you have the mass lower to the ground for added stability.
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Current WRC cars are running class mandated 1.6L turbo engines that all run at the 380hp class limit.

But, the stock EJ257 2.5L STI engine was 300hp/300lbft and fairly reliable. No idea how well it would adapt to a 4wd transmission/T-case but anything is possible with enough CNC time.
 
Are you working on this for your kit car idea? While this is a compromise in a lot of areas, it seems the f150 na 3.7 is somewhat compact, reliable, cheap, plentiful, and bolted to an acceptable transmission and transfer case. These are some retail prices separately, I imagine you could work a better deal on pullouts. If you needed 10 of them, it may make sense to find the fleet auction, there's a lot of these running around for big utilities

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I will add, Ive had a 3rz and currently drive a NA ecotec swapped car, and can say that both are tough as nails. My current 2.2 has a slight water pump leak ( internal) and milkshakes the oil. Its been like this for a few seasons now :lmao:.
 
Yotota said:
No idea how well it would adapt to a 4wd transmission/T-case but anything is possible with enough CNC time.
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Shouldn't be too bad as long as whatever you're adapting it to uses the trans to locate the starter.
 
benw said:
Then why are you in a thread where the title starts with the word Modern?
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Because he said in the first post that “modern” was:

AgitatedPancake said:
stuff with at least port injection, but not necessarily direct injection (not opposed either).
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Port injection was around in the 90’s. To me, that’s still solid and useable.
 
Sean said:
Are you running on 'pane if they are gasoline? Just wondering how you're dealing with offcamber/steep climbs/descents.
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I was talking about equipment, not toys. Stuff that is in constant use.
 
Yotota said:
But, the stock EJ257 2.5L STI engine was 300hp/300lbft and fairly reliable. No idea how well it would adapt to a 4wd transmission/T-case but anything is possible with enough CNC time.
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It would do that just fine with a handmade adapter out of a 3/8 piece of aluminum. Drill press and a band saw were the only tools used for that.

Source : I have such a thing in my garage. Subaru to GM trans adapter.
 
RustyC said:
I have a friend build a rig around one. Yes is works but has no off idle response even with 6.72 gears. It is obnoxiously load and smokey though.
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Just for clarity, he built a rig with the 4BT?
I’m sure it doesn’t have any off idle response.
Loud, sure.
Smokey? He needs to work on it. Either pump and injectors are wore out, timing is off, low on compression…. Something. The 4BT wasn’t a smoker. Even the 4B wasn’t. Not tuned and in good condition.
 
IH Man said:
I was talking about equipment, not toys. Stuff that is in constant use.
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You kinda get that this thread (and arguably the site) is predominantly about 'toys', right? :smokin: Forklifts run on 'pane and they're constant use.😉
 
Bebop said:
It would do that just fine with a handmade adapter out of a 3/8 piece of aluminum. Drill press and a band saw were the only tools used for that.

Source : I have such a thing in my garage. Subaru to GM trans adapter.
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Nice!

I had no idea how they mounted, or the crank/flexplate mounting configuration, but it sounds pretty easy.
 
Oddball said:
Longevity would be a reason to pass.
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Sure, Bu
Yotota said:
Current WRC cars are running class mandated 1.6L turbo engines that all run at the 380hp class limit.

But, the stock EJ257 2.5L STI engine was 300hp/300lbft and fairly reliable. No idea how well it would adapt to a 4wd transmission/T-case but anything is possible with enough CNC time.
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oh for the days of Group B...

I think they are pretty nifty little engines.
 
Sean said:
You kinda get that this thread (and arguably the site) is predominantly about 'toys', right? :smokin: Forklifts run on 'pane and they're constant use.😉
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I think Propane injection plus Diesel Engine = BIG FUN!
 
Sean said:
You kinda get that this thread (and arguably the site) is predominantly about 'toys', right? :smokin: Forklifts run on 'pane and they're constant use.😉
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Yes I do. But where do all the power trains in the toys come from? Production cars, trucks and equipment. So we can evaluate how it performs in constant duty to know how well it would perform in a toy. I mean, that’s like basic. You take something that performs well, modify it, and use it in a different application. Come on.
 
IH Man said:
Just for clarity, he built a rig with the 4BT?
I’m sure it doesn’t have any off idle response.
Loud, sure.
Smokey? He needs to work on it. Either pump and injectors are wore out, timing is off, low on compression…. Something. The 4BT wasn’t a smoker. Even the 4B wasn’t. Not tuned and in good condition.
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Yes he built a buggy. 4BT,TH400,NP205, rockwells.
No he just added a turbo that is too big plus added fuel. Nobody likes to be around it.
 
RustyC said:
Yes he built a buggy. 4BT,TH400,NP205, rockwells.
No he just added a turbo that is too big plus added fuel. Nobody likes to be around it.
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That explains it. Gotta know hot to build a diesel to get good results.

I would have left the turbo off and reworked the governor in the pump.
 
IH Man said:
Because he said in the first post that “modern” was:



Port injection was around in the 90’s. To me, that’s still solid and useable.
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Yeah but you haven't spent much time talking about any port injection engines in this thread yet :flipoff2:. It's been one or two posts about the little Duramax which is definitely intriguing, then a half dozen about the 4bt which doesn't really fit the thread. So what are your favorite port injected gas 4 cylinders?

Projectjunkie said:
Are you working on this for your kit car idea? While this is a compromise in a lot of areas, it seems the f150 na 3.7 is somewhat compact, reliable, cheap, plentiful, and bolted to an acceptable transmission and transfer case. These are some retail prices separately, I imagine you could work a better deal on pullouts. If you needed 10 of them, it may make sense to find the fleet auction, there's a lot of these running around for big utilities
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This would start for a personal rig, but one of the reasons for keeping the amount of custom to a minimum is for the possibility of doing some batch production in the future for sure. I'm not sold on V6s right now, and in the particular configuration I currently have in mind, they wouldn't fit.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
So what are your favorite port injected gas 4 cylinders?
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That’s going to depend. He’s stated the desire for high HP, but (maybe I missed it) hasn’t stated the application. Is this a trail rig? Crawler? What’s the need? What’s the operator experience level? What can he work on? Does he have the tools and knowledge to work on a VVT engine? Too many variables that haven’t been addressed for me to make a recommendation. Need more info.
 
IH Man said:
Yes I do. But where do all the power trains in the toys come from? Production cars, trucks and equipment. So we can evaluate how it performs in constant duty to know how well it would perform in a toy. I mean, that’s like basic. You take something that performs well, modify it, and use it in a different application. Come on.
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Come on, what? Specifically: Fuel injection works just fine and as "basic" as it comes for the last 35 years or so. It's reliable AF in crawlers, U4 and bouncers.....far more people run that that carbs anymore. You do you though...not that you need my permission.
 
Sean said:
Come on, what? Specifically: Fuel injection works just fine and as "basic" as it comes for the last 35 years or so. It's reliable AF in crawlers, U4 and bouncers.....far more people run that that carbs anymore. You do you though...not that you need my permission.
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I never said fuel injection was bad, or not reliable. But VVT with a VGT turbo and direct injection is problematic. Comes with its own set of issues. Required diagnostic equipment, knowledge and expensive parts. I’m not suggesting a carb motor. Not in the least. Just pointing out that the more electronic (computer) controlled components you add in, the more complex the system and the likelihood of problems on the trail increases. Sensor fails. Wires get ripped off. Or just the time it takes to rewrite the PCM programming for the application.

When I said “come on”, you seem to think that a knowledge base and reference to equipment isn’t logical or necessary. But it’s what any good builder uses as a tool to gauge how to build something new. Just because you base a build off what other people have done, doesn’t mean that there isn’t someone out there who pioneers the ideas.
 
Yotota said:
My first thought was also 3RZ, but that's a 20+ year old engine at this point. It's getting pretty hard to find good 3RZ drivetrains to build and swap.

But the newer little brother, the 2TR-FE, is definitely 250whp capable with a turbo...
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The old 3sgte already has that covered. People make 250hp out of the 3sge.
 
Fuck sake. Go back to pushing snow with your cronies using worn out, outdated drivetrains because you're afraid of wires and let the people living in 2024 continue on with this thread about modern drivetrains that use wires, vvt/vvl, possibly DI and a dozen other things you clearly don't want to understand. Nothing wrong with liking older simpler stuff, but you just clearly don't belong in this thread.

If you want to participate, maybe go read through AgitatedPancake 's posts and threads. He is the OP to this thread. He is a high contributing member to this forum, has lots of good insights and information and clearly isn't afraid of an ECU, seeing as he has asked for more information about modern drivetrains. IIRC he 3D scans and models components. I think he can work his way around a scan tool to sort out a fault on a modern engine.

If you don't have actual information regarding something designed and/or built in the past decade, please feel free to read along and learn something. But stop telling those of us that understand and want to use modern engines that we need to use outdated stuff.
 
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