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Modern 4 cylinder 4wd powertrains

AgitatedPancake said:
From a quick skim online, it looks like they are ~310lb long block, then around ~420 with accessories?
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Same weight as an LS3 for a lot let power and lot more complexity.
I don't think that's a great at all.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
I'll admit it's more than I expected, but aren't aluminum LS long blocks over 400lbs? (I don't actually know)
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yeah, but the difference between a long block and a fully dressed engine is almost nothing.

IIRC a LS3 is 435lbs fully dressed
 
Bebop said:
yeah, but the difference between a long block and a fully dressed engine is almost nothing.

IIRC a LS3 is 435lbs fully dressed
Click to expand...

Just for full clarification, does that mean all serpentine accessories? I figure that's what they meant on the 4 cyl, but I've been trying to figure out if that number of the 4 cyl includes the exhaust manifold and turbo. I think there's a chance it does, not that tubular headers for an LS add much weight. So the 4 cyl definitely doesn't weigh half of a V8, but 100-150lbs would be noticeable
 
In my mind the difference between long block and full dressed (for a LS engine) is :

  • Loaded intake manifold (TB, injectors, rails etc)
  • Flywheel and bolts
  • water pump
  • alternator and mount
  • PS pump and mount
  • crank pulley
  • belt and tensioner
  • Exhaust manifolds
And as a reference the difference between an iron and an alum block is 103lbs
 
Bebop said:
In my mind the difference between long block and full dressed (for a LS engine) is :

  • Loaded intake manifold (TB, injectors, rails etc)
  • Flywheel and bolts
  • water pump
  • alternator and mount
  • PS pump and mount
  • crank pulley
  • belt and tensioner
  • Exhaust manifolds
And as a reference the difference between an iron and an alum block is 103lbs
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Great clarification, thanks for that. I'd love to find some real world data for some of these 4 cylinders beyond brochure figures
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Great clarification, thanks for that. I'd love to find some real world data for some of these 4 cylinders beyond brochure figures
Click to expand...

For a turbo I4 I'd follow the same logic, just making sure the turbo and oil / water lines are part of the fully dressed weight.

I would argue that the weight of the intercooling system should be part of the total weight, in order to have an apple to apple comparison with a NA LS3, but at the same time, I don't see the intercooling components being part of the "fully dressed" engine weight.


I'm afraid that when you start to compare everything, the LS3 weight and compactness is still going to be hard to beat.
 
See here :

irate4x4.com

Official Part Weight Thread

What I found interesting is that there's a scale under the engine oil pan and one under the trans pan. The engine oil pan scale is reading 271lbs and the trans pan is reading 450lbs. I totally expected it to be the other way around. That tells me the the trans mount will always see way more...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com

  • loaded intake manifold (TB, injectors, rails etc)
  • flywheel and bolts
  • water pump
  • alternator and mount
  • PS pump and mount
  • crank pulley
  • belt and tensioner
  • exhaust manifolds
392lbs with all the stuff in green already included in the weight AND the ~5lbs of the engine stand mount added to it.

Looking at the picture made me realize I forgot in my list the coil packs and plug wires.
 
RTH said:
has nobody heard about the Chevy L3B?


there's more out there for links but this was just a quick one i found. be interesting to see what or if any rigs start being built with this engine.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty cool engine

The 2.7L TurboMax 4-cylinder engine is packed with tried and tested as well as new technology to provide excellent fuel economy and good performance;

  • Priority Oil Flow: The pressure relief valve maintains oil pressure to prevent additional wear and tear.
  • Forged Steel Crank Shaft: Crank stiffened by 30%, offering greater strength and better fatigue resistance.
  • Fully Forged Steel Bottom-End: Designed like a diesel to handle the immense loading of a turbo engine.
  • Iron Liners: Spun in a refractory and cast into the block, and handles incredibly high loads.
  • Cast-Iron Ring Carriers: Diesel tech to leverage long-term durability.
  • Chain Tensioners: Pressure relief valve to improve the durability of the chains providing less stress and wear on the system.
  • Electric Water Pump: Constant cooling of the turbo to provide optimal performance.
  • Active Thermal Management: Able to heat components in winter conditions for optimal temperatures and cool them better in extremely hot weather.
  • Piston Cooling Jet: Further lubricates and cools the piston and more interfaces under high loading for increased durability and efficiency.
Click to expand...
 
Bebop said:
For a turbo I4 I'd follow the same logic, just making sure the turbo and oil / water lines are part of the fully dressed weight.

I would argue that the weight of the intercooling system should be part of the total weight, in order to have an apple to apple comparison with a NA LS3, but at the same time, I don't see the intercooling components being part of the "fully dressed" engine weight.


I'm afraid that when you start to compare everything, the LS3 weight and compactness is still going to be hard to beat.
Click to expand...

You absolutely could be right on the net savings being marginal/zero over an LS with everything considered, and it's a good conversation to have. As I currently have the compact chassis laid out, the footwells really prefer an inline engine. But if an I4 is too much of a penalty, I'm at least taking notes.

Tech Tim said:
That's a pretty cool engine
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Agreed, that thing has some seriously interesting specs. I asked one of my buddies that has one of those modern chevys (but V8) about the 2.7, and his response was "what, about the cracking blocks?".

I don't know how prevalent it is, but apparently it's a thing at least worth keeping an eye on.


https://gmauthority.com/blog/2024/0...bo-2-7l-engines-produced-with-cracked-blocks/
 
I think some BMW engines have variable valve lift technology and can run without any intake manifold at all.

Could be a way to save some size and weight.

www.bmwblog.com

What Is Valvetronic? BMW's Innovative Throttle System

The folks at Engineering Explained took the time to explain the Valvetronic technology on their Youtube channel.
www.bmwblog.com www.bmwblog.com

(I saw videos of those engines idling with no manifold at all).
 
Bebop said:
I think some BMW engines have variable valve lift technology and can run without any intake manifold at all.

Could be a way to save some size and weight.

www.bmwblog.com

What Is Valvetronic? BMW's Innovative Throttle System

The folks at Engineering Explained took the time to explain the Valvetronic technology on their Youtube channel.
www.bmwblog.com www.bmwblog.com

(I saw videos of those engines idling with no manifold at all).
Click to expand...

Wow. I had no idea about that system, super interesting.

 
Op wants inline, and now discussion has shifted toward weight, what about the 88 lb Nismo 3 cyl :flipoff2:

or-its-zeod-rc-electrified-le-mans-car_100454471_h.jpg
 
posford said:
Op wants inline, and now discussion has shifted toward weight, what about the 88 lb Nismo 3 cyl :flipoff2:
Click to expand...

Weight is worth noting at the same time for sure, but yeah packaging is my primary reason for interest in inline engines.. It sure would be nice to see these 4 cylinders weighing a good bit less than V8s though, would make it an easier pill to swallow.

That little nismo engine is rad, as well as the 600hp Koenigsegg 3 cylinder. Just...out of reach :laughing:

How Koenigsegg's 3-cylinder engine makes 600 horsepower
 
my memory might be wrong but i think an early gen ecotech fully dressed was about 270 with a header and a turbo/manifold setup was 315lbs total.
THose numbers stick in my head because i wanted 300hp/300ftlb in roughly 300lb package and the overall goal was a 3k lb buggy. (3030lb last time i scaled it)
I didnt have my scales at the time or i would have weighed the fully dressed LHU a few weeks ago.

for me fully dressed=ready to run minus harness and turbo dump pipe. All turbo oil and coolant lines, coils, ps, alt, belt, tensioner, intake, TB, sensors, flywheel, etc...
 
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