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Modern 3/4t Gassers

Jeffh555 said:
You’re the second person to call me out, and you’re right. With a big load the new diesel’s are going to dramatically outperform a 7.3L or gasser. That’s not what my post or this thread is about. I’ve never driven a semi, but I bet it isn’t a significantly better experience towing 8k with a semi or a 6.7L.

My friend had a 6.7L, I drove it a few times empty, and I hated it.

OP said he was going to tow his Toyota, I assume it’s not a Cummins swapped Land Cruiser on an equipment trailer that somehow weighs 15k, and also assumed it’s not in a toy hauler. For his use, I don’t think he’ll get significantly better performance with a new diesel than a gasser or 7.3L, but the 7.3L would be a pain to daily drive.
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What about stopping, turning, going more than 65 mph in the flats, being able to hear yourself think, or any other thing to do with a long towing trip? There is more to towing than just adding power.

What did you hate so much about driving an empty 6.7? :homer:

We get you like your rig, but it's no where near a modern diesel in anyway shape or form.


For what the op wants a modern 1/2 or 3/4t gas will be great. I'd learn to the 6.2 ford personally since ram is only worth owning for the cummins, and who knows what gm is even doing these days :flipoff2:
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What about stopping, turning, going more than 65 mph in the flats, being able to hear yourself think, or any other thing to do with a long towing trip? There is more to towing than just adding power.

We get you like your rig, but it's no where near a modern diesel in anyway shape or form.
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You got me on "hearing yourself think" :laughing: I'll definitely give you that one.

There is definitely some endowment bias on my part. Since I own my 7.3L, I think it's worth more than I would if I didn't own it, but I don't think I'm out in left field. It cruises 70-75mph with a trailer just fine, also stops and turns just fine, in my opinion better than a new Raptor with the same load. I'm not saying it's as good as a modern diesel, but it gets the job done just fine. I thought driving a newer truck would make me want one, it didn't.

"no where near" or "not significantly better" are both objective and dependent on what you're towing and where, maybe we can just agree that a new diesel is gonna be better than an old diesel.

My point was that a new 1/2 ton will do fine for what I assume the OP is towing with it. He's suggesting a new 3/4 ton gasser, and it's obviously better than the 1/2 ton. Since everything is relative, I gave an example of what I personally have to compare it to.

I never said he should buy a 7.3L, I'm not some weird 7.3L fanboy, but it's my baseline of performance, and I think most people would agree that a 7.3L would tow a Toyota just fine.

YotaAtieToo said:
What did you hate so much about driving an empty 6.7? :homer:

... ram is only worth owning for the cummins ...
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I feel like you made my point. You buy a Ram for the Cummins. IMO if you're not towing, then you won't appreciate the Cummins. The whole truck felt shitty, and it was a newish truck, not a clapped out old Dodge, which we can all agree it will eventually become. Steering was heavy, ride was shitty, power felt like it came on really late, but maybe it was the auto that couldn't find a gear, interior felt the same as a 00s Ram, which isn't anything to be proud of, seats are high and steering wheel is low.

If I put two rigs behind it and try to tow from California to Denver, it would be a different story, but that's not relevant to the OP, or anything I said.

Edit: Just realized I didn't clarify which 6.7L I hated. It's the Ram. I don't have any experience with an empty 6.7L Ford.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
What about stopping, turning, going more than 65 mph in the flats, being able to hear yourself think, or any other thing to do with a long towing trip? There is more to towing than just adding power.

What did you hate so much about driving an empty 6.7? :homer:

We get you like your rig, but it's no where near a modern diesel in anyway shape or form.


For what the op wants a modern 1/2 or 3/4t gas will be great. I'd learn to the 6.2 ford personally since ram is only worth owning for the cummins, and who knows what gm is even doing these days :flipoff2:
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Alright, weekend's over and I'm back to wasting company time.

Drove a couple over the weekend, the Ram rides way nicer than the Chevy unloaded. Prices are still silly in my area, but traveling to buy a truck isn't a big deal. Part of me wants to just custom order a new PW, but I'm still clutching my pearls over dealer mark up/spending $80k on a truck all at once. Been thinking about a 7.3 Ford too, especially since I could rob shafts off it for the yota, but Ford has fucked me enough over the years. Current plan is to keep an eye out for a good deal on a used rig

1/2t seems like it would be pushing the capabilities and capacities, I'm in the Rockies and I'd like to be able to stop. Currently using a bumper pull flatbed from the ranch, but future plans on a crawler hauler. Not sure what the yoter is gonna weigh with SD's and LS and all that, but hoping to keep it around 5500. Add snacks, gear, spare parts, kid crap, wine for the wife and it's gonna be pushing 10k :jester:. In reality I just want to future proof things, I'm the guy that buys a new truck every other decade. I don't know what my daughter is gonna get into yet, being able to toss a RZR or motos on the trailer would be a nice option. Currently I have to toss a moto into the bed of the truck since there's no room on the flatbed.

To the ol Powerstroke 7.3 argument, man I love them. In my firefighter/ems days we had a 7.3 with like 500,000+mi of abusive emergency driving and that thing was the most reliable vehicle in the fleet. Doors eventually fell off of it and they scrapped it, we all shed a collective tear over it. But, I'm a fancy little boy and I've been spoiled with heated steering wheels and bluetooth and vented seats.
 
DocRamsay said:
Alright, weekend's over and I'm back to wasting company time.

Drove a couple over the weekend, the Ram rides way nicer than the Chevy unloaded. Prices are still silly in my area, but traveling to buy a truck isn't a big deal. Part of me wants to just custom order a new PW, but I'm still clutching my pearls over dealer mark up/spending $80k on a truck all at once. Been thinking about a 7.3 Ford too, especially since I could rob shafts off it for the yota, but Ford has fucked me enough over the years. Current plan is to keep an eye out for a good deal on a used rig
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Don't Ober look the 6.2 ford, I prefer them to the 6.4 hemi and the ford platform is much more solid imo.

DocRamsay said:
1/2t seems like it would be pushing the capabilities and capacities, I'm in the Rockies and I'd like to be able to stop. Currently using a bumper pull flatbed from the ranch, but future plans on a crawler hauler. Not sure what the yoter is gonna weigh with SD's and LS and all that, but hoping to keep it around 5500. Add snacks, gear, spare parts, kid crap, wine for the wife and it's gonna be pushing 10k :jester:. In reality I just want to future proof things, I'm the guy that buys a new truck every other decade. I don't know what my daughter is gonna get into yet, being able to toss a RZR or motos on the trailer would be a nice option. Currently I have to toss a moto into the bed of the truck since there's no room on the flatbed.
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We had our 2.7 eco boost down in utah last year and was pretty impressed pulling a roughly 7k lb trailer. Went up over 11k feet on a winding mt road and never felt the brakes lacking.

But I agree, if mpg isn't important, no reason not to go 3/4.

DocRamsay said:
To the ol Powerstroke 7.3 argument, man I love them. In my firefighter/ems days we had a 7.3 with like 500,000+mi of abusive emergency driving and that thing was the most reliable vehicle in the fleet. Doors eventually fell off of it and they scrapped it, we all shed a collective tear over it. But, I'm a fancy little boy and I've been spoiled with heated steering wheels and bluetooth and vented seats.
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Bacchus said:
18mpg from a 3/4 ton gasser. LOL.
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My 7.3 cclb 4x4 avgs 14 and change day to day mixed close to 50/50. That’s usually loaded with tools/supplies and pulling a dump trailer once a week for 40 miles or so.

Best ever was 17 and change but that was running 55-65 for a few hours because of traffic and backroads. The ten speed really shines in the mileage department.
 
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DocRamsay said:
Time to figure out my next daily, I've been stealing the family ranch truck/trailer to tow things over the years but it's an inconvenience to everyone.

Problem is I live 1.7mi from work in Montana where we have aggressively cold winters. My tahoe barely gets up to temp by the time I pull into work in 40* weather, so it seems that a diesel might not be a super happy fun time. Would like to be able to tow the yota to/from Moab/Mojave/Fordyce once or twice a year without hating life or being terrified.

Been looking at a P Wagon, seems they hold their resale value reasonably well, but our local dealership has them going for $20k over MSRP and I just can't. I've also heard of trans headaches, but I feel like everyone says that about everything that isn't a T56, NV4500 or ZF6.
Other thought has been a used GM 2500HD since they don't seem to hold their values, but it's hard to find a gas truck that isn't a base model work truck. I'm a fancy boy that needs creature comforts.
Final thought is to have a separate dedicated diesel tow rig and dd something else, but I'm running out of parking spaces in the suburbs.

Does anyone tow regularly with a gas truck? Any regrets?
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Bacchus said:
So once you get used to lying about mileage on a Cummins, it continues to every other truck you buy for the rest of your life. Got it.

18mpg from a 3/4 ton gasser. LOL.
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Flat ground all highway unloaded with a small engine option I can see getting 18 out of a modern truck. With the double overdrive the engine's probably sipping fuel at 1800rpm, less if you're talking a rural 2-lane at 50mph, and you've got the throttle open enough there's nearly no pumping against a vacuum.

But portraying the exception as the norm with intent to deceive still makes one a lying POS in my book....
 
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Yeah... the Fords get 11-14 depending on which driver and where they are driving. These are non towing numbers. I get a fuel report every month and this is what I see across my fleet. Not sure how guys are seeing high teens in these trucks.
 
KDXSR5 said:
Yeah... the Fords get 11-14 depending on which driver and where they are driving. These are non towing numbers. I get a fuel report every month and this is what I see across my fleet. Not sure how guys are seeing high teens in these trucks.
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They're not.
 
Bacchus said:
So once you get used to lying about mileage on a Cummins, it continues to every other truck you buy for the rest of your life. Got it.
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Thats no shit:lmao:

I will say, we had a 2000ish dodge 2500 for a backup rig. I have no idea what kinda mileage any of the trucks got as it did not matter. If I was in that dodge, I would use not quite half the fuel that my 6.7 was burning each day. Wasnt expecting to see that. Also wasnt expecting the headlights on that fucking dodge to be as horrible as they were:laughing:
 
KDXSR5 said:
Yeah... the Fords get 11-14 depending on which driver and where they are driving. These are non towing numbers. I get a fuel report every month and this is what I see across my fleet. Not sure how guys are seeing high teens in these trucks.
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Same way duramax guys say they get 25 mpg

They're looking at the instant mpg while cruising 60 mph on flat ground with a slight tail wind and saying that's what it gets.

Just texted my buddy who just got a 22 6.2/10speed F250. He said he's seeing 15-16mpg empty and 10 towing.
 
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Went from an 03 Cummins 3500 dually with NV to a 07 2500HD 6.0 6L80E.

Gas truck was cheaper to operate maint wise, fuel economy was close enough (6.0 got 13 hwy, Cummins 16) Bonus, since I didn't have a big diesel bouncing on top of the ball joints, the front end lasted a LOT longer. Would do it again in a heartbeat. 15k was about it's comfortable limit but it would do it all day. 7 MPG towing but, eh. Didn't have an exhaust brake in the Cummins and my trailer brakes worked so that was a wash.

I had a Kodiak with a 3116 Cat and that was my justification for getting rid of the Cummins because I still had a truck to "pull heavy"

90% of the time though, when the weight was right on the ragged edge of making the transition, I'd take the 2500 just due to comfort.
 
towrig.jpg
 
This is my 22 with the 7.3 gas v-8 and 4.30 gears with the 10 speed trans. Im right at 26,900 loaded like this. I have only pulled it about 3k miles so far but for a gas engine I think it does really well. I get about 7.8-9 mpg's an average with this setup. For the 3-6 times a year I tow this heavy, a gas truck makes the most sense for me. I will be taking it out west to Colorado and Utah next summer (I am in Ohio) so I am interested to see how it does on that trip.
 
Not towing, but I have a 6.2 ford service truck, cclb with a steel utility bed loaded with shit. Its a heavy pig and has 3.73 gears.

I've never ran into a situation where I felt like it didn't have enough ass.

$40 oil changes, cheaper fuel, and longer lasting front suspension/steering joints and wheel bearings are icing on the cake.

Itll get 14 to 15 if you set the cruise at 60 all day.

Any sort of mixed driving, 10.5 to 11.5.
 
89yjon said:
This is my 22 with the 7.3 gas v-8 and 4.30 gears with the 10 speed trans. Im right at 26,900 loaded like this. I get about 7.8-9 mpg's an average with this setup.
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At what speed? Hand calculated or lie-o-meter?

I gross 22-26k daily with my 5.9L Cummins. 10mpg at 70mph, and 9mpg at 80mph. I check my fuel cost daily.

I keep coming back to a new gasser F350 DRW for a 2nd rig. If it'll do that weight at 80 with the cruise set and knock down 8mpg I'll look harder.
 
TRINDU said:
At what speed? Hand calculated or lie-o-meter?

I gross 22-26k daily with my 5.9L Cummins. 10mpg at 70mph, and 9mpg at 80mph. I check my fuel cost daily.

I keep coming back to a new gasser F350 DRW for a 2nd rig. If it'll do that weight at 80 with the cruise set and knock down 8mpg I'll look harder.
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Hand calculated and most of that is driving about 70-75 mph. I am taking a trip to southern missouri offroad ranch next week with that setup. Its 12 hrs one way for me. I'll check my mileage each tank and report back when we get home. My lie-o-meter is always off about .3 to .5 a gallon positve.
 
I'll put in my few cents on the fords. I've had a few 6.2 trucks, as well as a 6.7 and now a 2023 7.3. The 6.2 is no more, Ford dropped it in favor of a 6.8 V8.

My current 7.3 has a 4.30 gear. Empty it gets about 15 highway, pulling a car trailer it does 12.6. With 12k total with a gooseneck it does around 9. Those numbers are all hand figures. I've never really wished for more power out of the 7.3 while towing, it pretty effortlessly pulls 12k through east coast mountains. All around Im very hapy with it compared to all the other gas and diesel trucks I've had over the years.

I also had a 2022 F150 Hybrid. It had all the power to pull anything, but it sucked even pulling a car trailer. I traded it on the 23 after about 8 months.
 
Buy a diesel. Build a heated garage.

You're welcome! :grinpimp:
 
zerobalance said:
I'll put in my few cents on the fords. I've had a few 6.2 trucks, as well as a 6.7 and now a 2023 7.3. The 6.2 is no more, Ford dropped it in favor of a 6.8 V8.

My current 7.3 has a 4.30 gear. Empty it gets about 15 highway, pulling a car trailer it does 12.6. With 12k total with a gooseneck it does around 9. Those numbers are all hand figures. I've never really wished for more power out of the 7.3 while towing, it pretty effortlessly pulls 12k through east coast mountains. All around Im very hapy with it compared to all the other gas and diesel trucks I've had over the years.

I also had a 2022 F150 Hybrid. It had all the power to pull anything, but it sucked even pulling a car trailer. I traded it on the 23 after about 8 months.
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Interesting take on the hybrid. I have a 2023 F150 Hybrid as my work truck. Just turned over 4000 miles. I have towed with it a couple of times, both an enclosed trailer and a flatbed and have been decently happy with it towing performance wise, but the MPG sucked. Running empty, I can get high teens to low 20s according to the dash as long as I keep my foot out of it and run 65mph. I think if I was towing more than about 5k lbs or so, I would likely pull an F250 from the fleet to use. Overall I have been pretty happy with the hybrid, especially the much smoother ride.
 
KDXSR5 said:
Interesting take on the hybrid. I have a 2023 F150 Hybrid as my work truck. Just turned over 4000 miles. I have towed with it a couple of times, both an enclosed trailer and a flatbed and have been decently happy with it towing performance wise, but the MPG sucked. Running empty, I can get high teens to low 20s according to the dash as long as I keep my foot out of it and run 65mph. I think if I was towing more than about 5k lbs or so, I would likely pull an F250 from the fleet to use. Overall I have been pretty happy with the hybrid, especially the much smoother ride.
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I loved the 7.2kW propower, especially when our power went out for 7 days the night I bought the truck. Empty I would get about 17, but driving from Montana back to Ohio with just a bedrack and rooftop tent that was about 2" proud of the cab, I struggled to get 14. It would really shine in situations where you could get it into full electric mode a lot, but overall I was underwhelmed. I am a bit spoiled as that was the first half ton I have owned since 2002, so I'm used to being a bit mindless about having too much tounge weight or whatever.
 
The powerboost has really good power, just spongy suspension. Just got a new trailer and run out of payload quick. Looking at the gassers and diesels. The godzilla is sweet with low grunt for a gasser, pretty darn impressive. Vs a diesel and an exhaust brake. Damn the new ones pull a lot harder than my old 6.2 detroit/GM :)
 
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