MInneapolis declares suicide, without cop involvement... YAY!

[brd]

Want a preview of what happens when the PD no longer operates?
Just look at Montreal,1968 and the Murray-Hill riots



Steven Pinker, the psychologist who was born and grew up in Montreal recalled how the wildcat police strike and the lawlessness that followed changed his views:

"As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' argument that if the government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictions were put to the test at 8:00 a.m. on October 7, 1969, when the Montreal police went on strike. By 11:20 am, the first bank was robbed. By noon, most of the downtown stores were closed because of looting. Within a few more hours, taxi drivers burned down the garage of a limousine service that competed with them for airport customers, a rooftop sniper killed a provincial police officer, rioters broke into several hotels and restaurants, and a doctor slew a burglar in his suburban home. By the end of the day, six banks had been robbed, a hundred shops had been looted, twelve fires had been set, forty carloads of storefront glass had been broken, and three million dollars in property damage had been inflicted, before city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters (and offered a foretaste of life as a scientist)." [SUP][16][/SUP]​

 

[Norm]

Want a preview of what happens when the PD no longer operates?
Just look at Montreal,1968 and the Murray-Hill riots



Steven Pinker, the psychologist who was born and grew up in Montreal recalled how the wildcat police strike and the lawlessness that followed changed his views:

"As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' argument that if the government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictions were put to the test at 8:00 a.m. on October 7, 1969, when the Montreal police went on strike. By 11:20 am, the first bank was robbed. By noon, most of the downtown stores were closed because of looting. Within a few more hours, taxi drivers burned down the garage of a limousine service that competed with them for airport customers, a rooftop sniper killed a provincial police officer, rioters broke into several hotels and restaurants, and a doctor slew a burglar in his suburban home. By the end of the day, six banks had been robbed, a hundred shops had been looted, twelve fires had been set, forty carloads of storefront glass had been broken, and three million dollars in property damage had been inflicted, before city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters (and offered a foretaste of life as a scientist)." [SUP][16][/SUP]​

Not half as bad as several US cities with the police not on strike.

 

[gt1guy]

Want a preview of what happens when the PD no longer operates?
Just look at Montreal,1968 and the Murray-Hill riots



Steven Pinker, the psychologist who was born and grew up in Montreal recalled how the wildcat police strike and the lawlessness that followed changed his views:

"As a young teenager in proudly peaceable Canada during the romantic 1960s, I was a true believer in Bakunin's anarchism. I laughed off my parents' argument that if the government ever laid down its arms all hell would break loose. Our competing predictions were put to the test at 8:00 a.m. on October 7, 1969, when the Montreal police went on strike. By 11:20 am, the first bank was robbed. By noon, most of the downtown stores were closed because of looting. Within a few more hours, taxi drivers burned down the garage of a limousine service that competed with them for airport customers, a rooftop sniper killed a provincial police officer, rioters broke into several hotels and restaurants, and a doctor slew a burglar in his suburban home. By the end of the day, six banks had been robbed, a hundred shops had been looted, twelve fires had been set, forty carloads of storefront glass had been broken, and three million dollars in property damage had been inflicted, before city authorities had to call in the army and, of course, the Mounties to restore order. This decisive empirical test left my politics in tatters (and offered a foretaste of life as a scientist)." [SUP][16][/SUP]​

Yep. Chaos within hours. Here in the States, I bet withing minutes.

I think one of the many problems with the left, is that they think the criminals do crime because they have no other choice. When the truth is, they do it because they're not dead.

With the number of armed citizens here in the States who believe in law and order, the chaos of no cops will work both ways.

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

I think the liberal progressives are worse than communists, but if they burn their cities they will move to ours. The only solution is elimination of the ideology.

Now you're sounding like Overbear.

 

[arse_sidewards]

Now you're sounding like Overbear.

He's not wrong.

Not half as bad as several US cities with the police not on strike.

I hear it was the shit when Baltimore PD went on strike and didn't enforce or investigate that wasn't a violent felony. Petty crime surged but still nothing compared to an average day in San Fransisco. Other crime stayed about constant. Government harassment of people over bullshit ground to a halt. The only people who didn't like it were the Karens who were pissed that people were smoking weed and drinking beer in public.

 

[bigun]

https://www.redstate.com/nick-arama...aign=nl&bcid=bfcab5f0c58b3691765086d28bfa5c1c

Los Angeles City Council President Moves to Defund Police, But Then It’s Revealed How She Was Using Police

Gotta love the Democratic officials who talk about “defunding the police,” not knowing or seemingly caring about the consequences of such reckless actions to their citizens. But worse than that are the hypocritical politicians who push such craziness as defunding while personally using the police as their own personal protection unit.

Los Angeles City Council President Nury Martinez filed a motion last week to cut the budget of the LAPD by $150 million. But even as she did that, she was exploiting the police, with a protection unit of the LAPD guarding her home, which had been in place there since April.

She gave an incredibly twisted perception of the police in a move to cut their money.

From Spectrum:

“We need a vision for our city that says ‘there is going to be justice.’ American society is founded on a racial hierarchy, one that is born out of slavery, followed by Jim Crow segregation and corporate abuse of labor. As such, police departments are asked to enforce a system of laws that are designed to reinforce and maintain economic and racial inequality.”​

Needless to say, the police were not very happy with her.

“It’s kind of ironic. Here she is demanding $150 million be reallocated from the police budget, but yet she has security at her house by the Los Angeles Police Department,” said Det. Jamie McBride, who serves as director of the Los Angeles Police Protective League, the LAPD’s union.

McBride, who has been in law enforcement for 30 years, spent more than five years at the LAPD’s Foothill Division, which serves Martinez’s district in the San Fernando Valley.

The station covers 44 square miles with seven police units each shift, according to a high-ranking member stationed at the division.

“It’s a very, very large division,” McBride said. “Now we’re taking one unit away from the equation. If a citizen calls 911 there’s less units on the streets to respond to that 911 call.”​

 

[Slander]

Isnt self defense the argument evreyone makes for having guys? Whatever happend to only you can help yourself?

I would think a board full of conservatives and so called libertarians would be cheering for a corrupt, bloated, public sector union dominated arm of the government to lose funding, power and in some cases shut down?

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

Maybe the liberals/progressives want a police force like in the movie Demolition Man.

 

[bigun]

Maybe the liberals/progressives want a police force like in the movie Demolition Man.

And we saw how well that worked for them when real bad guy got loose

 

[Lincoln]

I haven't seen it said here but in a lot of places the city police are a charter through the county, the county is chartered through the state. If the city police are dismantled the county takes over. Happens quite often here in small towns.

Several times in the past 25 years the county here as started the process of removing the cities charter because they are such fuckups. I'm not sure if it's the politics or what but I see city police as a problem quite often.

Anyway if the dismantle the city police I could see the county taking over and just increasing the taxes to cover the staffing change. Technically it could be a wash because the city would no longer tax for that service. But you know it won't be. The city can't choose to be lawless without their own force choosing not to enforce the laws. When it gets bad enough the county will take over.

I have no idea if Minnesota is setup that but a lot are.

 

[Dennhop]

That's true, and most of the states are more than likely set up that way. That being said, if the counties take over the municipalities, they're going to be in a hurt locker for a bit, until they get staffing up..most counties in large municipalities are typically running security at jails, detention facilities, government buildings and some hospitals. They don't necessarily have the patrol presence or extra staffing to take on municipality beats.
The solution? Roll the municipal police over to county, increase the budget and voila! You've got coverage. Except ironically, that puts the municipality back in the same boat as it was before since the same people are in the same positions, thus resolving nothing.

 

[Boss]

Meanwhile in New York.

 

[SanDiegoCJ]

And we saw how well that worked for them when real bad guy got loose

That's the whole point.

 

[SLOWPOKE693]

Meanwhile in New York.

I'm going out on a limb here..... But I think what he means by "positive interactions" is that they didn't kill anybody in that instance.

I highly doubt that if they polled everyone that had an interaction with the NY Police that the "overwhelmingly positive response" #'s he was bragging about would be alot lower. Nice try though......

 

[Lincoln]

That's true, and most of the states are more than likely set up that way. That being said, if the counties take over the municipalities, they're going to be in a hurt locker for a bit, until they get staffing up..most counties in large municipalities are typically running security at jails, detention facilities, government buildings and some hospitals. They don't necessarily have the patrol presence or extra staffing to take on municipality beats.
The solution? Roll the municipal police over to county, increase the budget and voila! You've got coverage. Except ironically, that puts the municipality back in the same boat as it was before since the same people are in the same positions, thus resolving nothing.

i didn't mean to imply it would fix anything. But I do think the city leadership has less pull with the county sheriff.

It's probably different around hear. Land mass and population is mostly in unincorporated areas. I have no idea on staffing size but I would guess it's similar between county and city. I could also see that being much different in a larger city.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

Ok, so I finally was able to get onto my computer, and barely have an internet connection, but we'll see how this goes. I wasn't about to try and type this out on my fucking phone screen...

While said somewhat in jest, mostly sarcastically, and partially hopeful that it actually happens, let me clarify more on my point. And no, I'm not about to back down and change my mind, but I am willing to at least lay out my train of thought.


The citizens wish to at a minimum, defund and reallocate funds; the extremists wouldn't be happy until there are no police on the streets. Apparently, they don't feel safe when a police officer is around (Ironically, in Indiana near Crown Point, one of the protesters as she passed by the individuals standing there along a wall with AR-15's strapped to themselves, she stated she was terrified, and was so happy a POLICE OFFICER was nearby escorting them. Yet, she's protesting the police officers, the same ones she was happy were there to protect her from the scary "assault rifles").

The extremists are always going to be the loudest set. you get this at both ends of every spectrum. the major are moderates in the middle. This is america, its our right to protest even if it doesn't make much logical sense.

Not my main point, but it does highlight where I'm going with this.

Not every cop is bad. Not every cop is good. Cops are human like the rest of us. Some are legitimately trying to help, and make mistakes. Some are just awesome at their jobs, and are truly great people to be around. Some are just straight up shitbirds, and shouldn't be allowed to breed. That being said, getting rid of all of them is not the answer. Defunding them to the point where they can't staff a full response is not the answer either. Holding them accountable, the first time they screw up, not sweeping it under the rug, that's the answer.

I'll argue that most police depts are good and some are bad. Its bigger than just beat cops IMO. You have some depts where the rot is cultural. I'm 100% for public police accountability. I think POBAR (https://porac.org/resources/peace-of...ill-of-rights/ ) is absolute horse shit. part of public service is sacrifice. if a cop does bad shit we, the public, need to know.

If you defund a police department to the point where they can't operate due to broken down equipment, lack of personnel, or in the extreme where the SJW's finally get what they want and get rid of their local police department completely, what is going to happen? When I say the city is going to burn, I may be using a bit of poetic exaggeration there. Do I truly believe it's going to burn overnight? Not really. But it's human nature and when the deterrent is gone, then the mice will come out and play. And play some more, and more, until petty thefts turn into burglaries, burglaries turn into armed robberies, armed robberies turn into violent crimes, etc etc. I don't have a timeline. I don't know the timeline for when this would happen. But eventually, if left to their own devices, it's going to happen.

Defunding as a tactic to break the unions can work. camden, nj is being held up as a model for this. they nuked the police dept, had the state step in as they re-orged, and came out in a much better place.

"Communities will police their own" Sure they will...and that always turns out well. Ask Treyvon Martin how it turned out when an individual in the community decided he was going to take justice into his own hands...oh wait. That's right. You'll have individuals running around shooting first, asking questions never, because there are entirely too many fucking idiots out there that carry on a daily basis, and don't have the first fucking clue of the responsibility they have when they strap that holster with the loaded firearm onto their belt. There is carrying, and then there is responsible carrying. Even as a die hard 2A believer, and as much as I refuse to feel the government has any right to regulate the firearms I own, AND as a certified NRA firearms instructor, I still believe there are mouth breathers out there that have no business carrying a firearm. But I digress again.

community policing is interesting. if it means the officers need to live and work in the same neighborhood I can understand the logic. I dont know how they will pull it off. if they mean just some nana's yelling at youth from their porch its a god damn joke.

Even defunding the police departments is not the answer. Why? Take Indianapolis for example. The community for years now has been up in arms about why IMPD doesn't have body cams. "There needs to be accountability, they should all have body cams". Funny thing is, they've been on a hiring freeze, due to budgetary restrictions, a bunch of them have been retiring, they're short funded already, and can't afford the body cams in the first place. So lets just go ahead and take even more money away from them. Let's make sure we hamstring them even more. They want a committee of all civilians to hold IMPD accountable. Personally, I think that's an absolutely idiotic idea, but if you want to know why, that'll have to be a separate post.
Back to defunding them. If they're short staffed, under budgeted, and already scraping by, what's actually going to help them out? Taking even more money away? Why not look into the personnel and accountability. Hold your own accountable. Hold them to a higher standard, lead them by example, and if they fuck it up like those fuckwads in Minneapolis did, then by all means, string them up the flagpole. Every good unit and good leader I had in 14 years in the Marine Corps operated by those standards, and it worked. The shitbirds were there, sure, but when we weren't hamstrung, we were able to get rid of them, or in a few cases, even fix them (I say a few cases, because I'll be honest, you rarely got through to the true shitbirds).

I agree. The overhaul shouldn't be taking the budget to 0. thats not realistic or good for society. I think civil oversight does work if done correctly. But its easy to get wrong. The issue with holding them accountable overall is police unions have way too much power currently.

I keep hearing, "I don't trust cops; I'm scared of them; If you're not white, then you're fucked". First off, I'm not white. Let me set that straight. I'm asian, korean to be specific. You want to know something funny? Almost all the racism I've dealt with has come from other asians, and mostly koreans, because they can't understand why the fuck I don't do what they do, or act how a korean should act. Years ago, I was approached by another korean, who asked me "Why are you hanging out with all these white guys? Look man, if you ever want to do asian stuff, I'm over in these barracks, hit me up."

keep hearing from who? from where?

To this day, I still have no fucking clue what the fuck asian stuff is.
Back on topic. I've only ever met one cop who was fucking with us, and that a Fontana cop who pulled us over on the freeway, trying to fuck with us; I think my buddy and I were 18,19 years old; we were either both PFC's or LCpl's at the time, so it was a while back. Since then, never have I had an issue with any cop. I've lived in small rural towns for years. Yeah, I'm usually a little out of place in most of the places I've lived. Probably the only person in 10 miles with black hair and slanted eyes. Still never had a problem. I've been popped quite a few times for speeding; it's gotten a bit expensive over the years, but I've also gotten off with a lot more warnings than I deserved to get. Why? Because I'm honest, respectful and friendly. I know damn well every time I was pulled over since that Fontana cop, it's been for good reason. I knew what I was doing. Why am I going to act the fool and try and get out of it. Yep, I gambled, broke a law, and got caught. Now it's time to take my punishment like a man. Sometimes I eat the ticket, sometimes its a warning and have a good day.

You can't discredit that just because you only met one bad cop that thousands or tens of thousands of bad cops arn't out there. I think you're kinda glossing over what systematic police fucking with your neighborhood for years does to a group.

Problem is, not everyone has that mentality. So as soon as the police departments in the cities get defunded, kicked out, whatever the SJW's of today want to do, those SJW's are going to be the first ones bitching moaning and complaining about how there's never a cop when they need one, when they're the ones getting robbed, broken into, or wronged. Yet those same SJW's are going to be the exact same person that will tell you they don't trust any cops. That's their prerogative. They can not trust them all they want. But lumping every single cop into the same pool of "I don't trust you because you're a cop" is lunacy, and honestly, the result of a small minded individual, who refuses to accept that there may be another point of view that actually doesn't agree with him, but isn't necessarily wrong.

Anyway. There's my response. Hope I humored you to sleep, but I'm happy to actually have a legitimate discussion with anyone. I just typically don't try, because it almost always goes straight to monkey's flinging shit at each other, and I just don't need that anymore.

stop using SJW. they're no different than influencers. they're gona talk a lot and do nothing. the middle group is now talking about this shit. you got karen from the suburbs out protesting about it. thats a big deal imo. this isn't just some "SJWs" as you say and the inner city types.

the good cops need to stand up and do whats right. and many many are. I see some dept's passing policies that require officers to speak up about issues. thats a good logic that should have always been there.

sorry it took so long. wanted to give you an honest shake without trolling.

 

[Deleted Member]

The extremists are always going to be the loudest set. you get this at both ends of every spectrum. the major are moderates in the middle. This is america, its our right to protest even if it doesn't make much logical sense.


I'll argue that most police depts are good and some are bad. Its bigger than just beat cops IMO. You have some depts where the rot is cultural. I'm 100% for public police accountability. I think POBAR (https://porac.org/resources/peace-of...ill-of-rights/ ) is absolute horse shit. part of public service is sacrifice. if a cop does bad shit we, the public, need to know.



Defunding as a tactic to break the unions can work. camden, nj is being held up as a model for this. they nuked the police dept, had the state step in as they re-orged, and came out in a much better place.



community policing is interesting. if it means the officers need to live and work in the same neighborhood I can understand the logic. I dont know how they will pull it off. if they mean just some nana's yelling at youth from their porch its a god damn joke.




I agree. The overhaul shouldn't be taking the budget to 0. thats not realistic or good for society. I think civil oversight does work if done correctly. But its easy to get wrong. The issue with holding them accountable overall is police unions have way too much power currently.



keep hearing from who? from where?


You can't discredit that just because you only met one bad cop that thousands or tens of thousands of bad cops arn't out there. I think you're kinda glossing over what systematic police fucking with your neighborhood for years does to a group.




stop using SJW. they're no different than influencers. they're gona talk a lot and do nothing. the middle group is now talking about this shit. you got karen from the suburbs out protesting about it. thats a big deal imo. this isn't just some "SJWs" as you say and the inner city types.

the good cops need to stand up and do whats right. and many many are. I see some dept's passing policies that require officers to speak up about issues. thats a good logic that should have always been there.

sorry it took so long. wanted to give you an honest shake without trolling.

STFUD (DekeHead)

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

STFUD (DekeHead)

oh no you're calling me a name. i'm calling the police on you. oh wait they're defunded. lemme call deke instead.

@deke

 

[Dennhop]

The extremists are always going to be the loudest set. you get this at both ends of every spectrum. the major are moderates in the middle. This is america, its our right to protest even if it doesn't make much logical sense.


I'll argue that most police depts are good and some are bad. Its bigger than just beat cops IMO. You have some depts where the rot is cultural. I'm 100% for public police accountability. I think POBAR (https://porac.org/resources/peace-of...ill-of-rights/ ) is absolute horse shit. part of public service is sacrifice. if a cop does bad shit we, the public, need to know.



Defunding as a tactic to break the unions can work. camden, nj is being held up as a model for this. they nuked the police dept, had the state step in as they re-orged, and came out in a much better place.



community policing is interesting. if it means the officers need to live and work in the same neighborhood I can understand the logic. I dont know how they will pull it off. if they mean just some nana's yelling at youth from their porch its a god damn joke.




I agree. The overhaul shouldn't be taking the budget to 0. thats not realistic or good for society. I think civil oversight does work if done correctly. But its easy to get wrong. The issue with holding them accountable overall is police unions have way too much power currently.



keep hearing from who? from where?


You can't discredit that just because you only met one bad cop that thousands or tens of thousands of bad cops arn't out there. I think you're kinda glossing over what systematic police fucking with your neighborhood for years does to a group.




stop using SJW. they're no different than influencers. they're gona talk a lot and do nothing. the middle group is now talking about this shit. you got karen from the suburbs out protesting about it. thats a big deal imo. this isn't just some "SJWs" as you say and the inner city types.

the good cops need to stand up and do whats right. and many many are. I see some dept's passing policies that require officers to speak up about issues. thats a good logic that should have always been there.

sorry it took so long. wanted to give you an honest shake without trolling.

you bring up some good points definitely some valid points and definitely some that I really hadn't considered before. after reading through your responses I feel like there's actually a lot more that we do agree on than I originally thought. I'll see if I can get on the internet later tonight on my computer, and may not happen because my internet connection today with this weather is probably going to be absolute s***. That being said I'll see if I can clarify some stuff.

Either way, if I ever meet you in real life be more than happy to buy you a beer or a couple, lol

 

[IH-SSII]

The are already having Businesses leaving. Bet they don't move to a Blue State.

 

[NOTHINGWILLCHANGELANCE]

you bring up some good points definitely some valid points and definitely some that I really hadn't considered before. after reading through your responses I feel like there's actually a lot more that we do agree on than I originally thought. I'll see if I can get on the internet later tonight on my computer, and may not happen because my internet connection today with this weather is probably going to be absolute s***. That being said I'll see if I can clarify some stuff.

Either way, if I ever meet you in real life be more than happy to buy you a beer or a couple, lol

I'm sure there is a lot we agree on and some stuff we don't. And thats ok. its fun to hash it out over a meal and some drinks. Just because we disagree doesn't mean we have to declare civil war on each other. Sucks about your internet. what state?

 

[Dennhop]

Indiana. Rural, and right now dependent on my 4g signal for wifi, which is almost non existent most days. By August, I should have fiber running directly into the house, with a 100g download speed. Pretty excited about that, lol