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Johnny Longrifle

Johnny Longrifle

Slow learner
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
147
Messages
428
Loc
Not where I want to be
I have a failing concrete septic tank from 19whothefawkknows. I would really like to not dig it up, and instead install the new one alongside the old. The site I have chosen is ~ 2.5 ft away from a 1000 gallon propane tank on the high side, and 2 ft away from the soon to be abandoned tank on the low side. I scratched around today and found the inlet and outlet pipes, and marked out my potential site in orange paint.

My new hole will have to be 60" plus deep to be able to connect to the pipes. I am worried about digging such a deep hole next to the propane tank.

Will the bank collapse and dump the propane tank into the hole? Should I pay to have the tank moved? My thought was to rig the propane tank to a semi truck and anchor it while I excavate and backfill.

Inlet and outlet pipes are 1 and 2 feet deep, respectively. Native material is mostly topsoil with some clay at and below 1-2 feet.

Any advice appreciated.

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Anything more than 4’ requires shoring or sloping at 3’ back for every 4’ deep. You can risk it, but the fallout if it fucks up is quite a decent one in this case. Your soil type is not the worst, but not best.
i would be more worried about the failing septic tank. Depending on mode of failure, that ground may be saturated and not want to hold up for anything. And that will be an equally as shitty scenario. Pun intended.
 
Crimsen said:
Anything more than 4’ requires shoring or sloping at 3’ back for every 4’ deep. You can risk it, but the fallout if it fucks up is quite a decent one in this case. Your soil type is not the worst, but not best.
i would be more worried about the failing septic tank. Depending on mode of failure, that ground may be saturated and not want to hold up for anything. And that will be an equally as shitty scenario. Pun intended.
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This right here.


So....send it. :flipoff2:
 
I'm with ThePanzerFuhrer..

Not sure where nunya is however small pile you scratched up in pic looks likes it's pretty loose stuff to me... I wouldn't chance digging close to propane tank.
 
Chadwick said:
I'm with ThePanzerFuhrer..

Not sure where nunya is however small pile you scratched up in pic looks likes it's pretty loose stuff to me... I wouldn't chance digging close to propane tank.
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He forgets the hole is gonna be + 2-3’ bigger on each side you can’t just dig a square hole.

Make sure you dig 6-8” deeper and fill the bottom with clear stone. Use a board to strike it off flat. You want as much contact area on the bottom of the tank as possible to avoid making a gap with may cause the tank to fail early.
 
The plan is to smash the lid of the old concrete tank and fill it in with the diggings from the new hole. I'm fully aware of not trying to lift the propane tank by the eyes. It's full as well, just had it topped off last week.

I would move the propane tank myself if I had the equipment, but I'm doing this whole thing by myself with a well worn 78?ish model year Ford 550 backhoe.

The whole time I'm working this project I need to keep the current septic and propane running for my mom.

I was hoping to set the new tank and only leave her without plumbing for a day when I make the final connections.
 
Johnny Longrifle said:
The plan is to smash the lid of the old concrete tank and fill it in with the diggings from the new hole. I'm fully aware of not trying to lift the propane tank by the eyes. It's full as well, just had it topped off last week.

I would move the propane tank myself if I had the equipment, but I'm doing this whole thing by myself with a well worn 78?ish model year Ford 550 backhoe.

The whole time I'm working this project I need to keep the current septic and propane running for my mom.

I was hoping to set the new tank and only leave her without plumbing for a day when I make the final connections.
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If you can have a short interruption to the propane you can lift it up onto some wooden cribs/skids and then slide it. Just need a regular bottle/floor jack to do this. I'd draw you a picture if needed, but you just need a block stack up with some eyebolts so you can strap it to the tank, then you lift it and slip a long 6x6 or whatever planks under that. Do two of these, one on each end, about 20% of the way into the tank. The wood/wood interface will slide easily, just wet it with a garden hose if need be. Then pull it over with whatever pickup truck/prius you have. If your backhoe will pick up an end that's easier than jacks. Disconnect the hose first (duh) and then run some schedule-K or whatever is cheap to temporarily hook it back up.


Unless it's cheap to just have it moved.


Disclaimer, I've never done this with a propane tank, but I've done similar with other shit. My experience with trying to move other round/cylindrical things is they want to roll, hence strapping it to blocks so it can't. YMMV, if it seems super sketchy get video.
 
Move the tank with the bucket of the 550. Use a couple chains, straps, or whatever you have to basket it.

If not that then just strap it back to something and disconect it.
 
Johnny Longrifle said:
I have a failing concrete septic tank from 19whothefawkknows. I would really like to not dig it up, and instead install the new one alongside the old. The site I have chosen is ~ 2.5 ft away from a 1000 gallon propane tank on the high side, and 2 ft away from the soon to be abandoned tank on the low side. I scratched around today and found the inlet and outlet pipes, and marked out my potential site in orange paint.

My new hole will have to be 60" plus deep to be able to connect to the pipes. I am worried about digging such a deep hole next to the propane tank.

Will the bank collapse and dump the propane tank into the hole? Should I pay to have the tank moved? My thought was to rig the propane tank to a semi truck and anchor it while I excavate and backfill.

Inlet and outlet pipes are 1 and 2 feet deep, respectively. Native material is mostly topsoil with some clay at and below 1-2 feet.

Any advice appreciated.
Click to expand...

Clay is typically pretty stable, we dig 6-8' deep vertical walls in clay all the time. But I still don't like being down there, just because.

Like others have said, just move the tank or secure it to something heavy.

Also, make sure you get the inlet pipe about perfect. No 90s and keep a steady fall from the house. You might have to dig back a bit to do this. Outlet is just water, so 90s are OK, but still needs to have fall, or at worst, be flat with the drain field. We always push to have risers put on new tanks, or after we've dug them up. Makes pumping and or checking for a clogged baffle much easier. Although it sounds like your tank is super shallow already.

Everyone thinks septic stuff is stupid simple, and it kinda is, but there are a few key things that can fuck you if you mess them up.
 
Don’t move a full 1000G.
Don’t dig a 7-8’ hole 2’ from a full 1000G.
Shouldn’t have filled your 1000G.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Also, make sure you get the inlet pipe about perfect. No 90s and keep a steady fall from the house.
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The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. Its just too risky. Im either going to have to find a new spot for the septic tank, or get the propane tank moved. The inlet pipe is going to have to have an elbow in it somewhere. It looks like a 15* or maybe 30* will do it. Is that going to be an issue?

Muckin_Slusher said:
What is failing on your old tank?
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The concrete is crumbling. The last time we had it pumped, the honey dipper was sucking up bits of concrete.
 
larboc said:
Yuck. No concrete tank suppliers near by?
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Not sure about your area but they have been begging and stealing to get any septic tanks for the last few years around me. Local placy hates polly but installed 4 last year because that’s all their was available for the near future.
 
How much time do you have on an excavator? I'm guessing not nearly enough to trust you to operate that close to your propane tank. :flipoff2:
 
Johnny Longrifle said:
The more I think about this, the less I like the idea. Its just too risky. Im either going to have to find a new spot for the septic tank, or get the propane tank moved. The inlet pipe is going to have to have an elbow in it somewhere. It looks like a 15* or maybe 30* will do it. Is that going to be an issue?
Click to expand...
Less angle is less likely to get clogged...
Might be worth moving her to a hotel for a day or so, or bring in a portajon :eek:

Aaron Z
 
aczlan said:
Less angle is less likely to get clogged...
Might be worth moving her to a hotel for a day or so, or bring in a portajon :eek:

Aaron Z
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This. Leave propane where it is, get the current tank sucked dry, remove and replace with new.

since your going poly, FILL THE TANK WITH WATER AS SOON AS ITS IN THE GROUND AND SET! You really dont want to come out to your tank trying or successfully eacaping since its a boat until filled.
 
It really should only take a weekend to remove and replace the old tank, at least to the point of having the system functioning. I just did my entire system in under a week, with myself and an operator, and mine was way bigger/deeper and the tank company fucked up and sent the wrong tank at first. Depending on how full you fill the tank, you will just need to get the old one out, new one in, inlet connected and tank filled 3/4 full before you use the system again. You will have a bit of time to fill the rest of the tank to need the outlet hooked up, and dont dilly dally on backfill/risers. I lucked out and we had dry clay for 95% of the dig. The bottom was a gravel layer which was NOT stable but was only a couple inches needed into that to get grade
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There's some good advice in this thread.

Get mom a port a potty or a hotel room

Dig up and remove the old tank. Replace it with a concrete tank in the same location.

Put risers on the inspection hatches.

Do it right. Don't hack fab it up.
 
I don't know how it is there, but here if that old tank comes out of the ground or is moved from its original location instead of crushed and buried in place it's considered hazmat. But it sounds like you don't need stamped drawings and a permit so that might not be an issue.
 
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