What's new
By:
Filters

Helpful hints for newbies doing Dana 60 gear setup

Lil'John

Lil'John

Former #278
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
488
Messages
1,048
Loc
Walking to the Rubicon
Title kind of states the purpose of this thread: gathering helpful/expert hints for newbies that are attempting a Dana 60 gear setup.

I've got a few areas I'm hoping to cover. I'm not intending to cover step by step how to do it.

Needed tools outside of normal sockets and wrenches:
micrometer - measuring shims
magnetic dial indicator - measuring backlash
inch pound wrench

Parts:
  • Is there a recommended master install kit? I've heard that Yukon uses Timken bearings which is highly recommended.
  • Is there a point at which a full master kit isn't needed and just a bearing kit could be used? One axle done so plenty of left over shims.
  • Use a set of old bearings and make setup bearings. For the carrier, you want to grind the inside of the bearings so they slide on/off the carrier. For the pinion, it depends upon where the inside shims are.
My general understanding of Dana 60 gear setup is there are four steps:
  1. Pinion bearing preload - adding/removing shims until 8-10 in/lbs for used bearings or 17-30 in/lbs for new bearings (verify numbers)
  2. Carrier bearing preload - adding shims between carrier and bearing until carrier requires a little effort to "seat"
  3. Carrier backlash - distance ring gear moves while pinion doesn't move (better description??) 6-10 thousands of an inch using dial indicator
  4. Reading gear pattern - this is painting ring gear and reading pattern. Adjusting pinion depth then checking backlash then rereading.
I'm looking for hints on:
Pinion bearing preload:
  • My understanding is once this is established, the amount of shims should not be touched. In reading the gear pattern, the shims will be shuffled between sides; move 5 thousands from one end to the other.
  • Is there a recommended starting shim for pinion stickout? I never saw a recommended starting point.
  • Should I use an old pinion nut for everything? It sounds like a lot of zipping the nut on and off... my understanding is the pinion nut is a metal lock nut which should be single use.
Carrier bearing preload:
  • The recommended hint I saw for this was to get this number using the carrier without the ring gear installed.
  • My understanding is once this is established, the amount of shims should not be touched. In reading the gear pattern, the shims will be shuffled between sides; move 5 thousands from one end to the other.
  • Another hint I read that was once the gear pattern was acceptable, shims were added between the race and bearing cap. I don't recall the magic number. Does someone know the amount of shim for each side? I want to say it was something like fifteen thousands for each side. I have read that this final preload was virtually impossible to screwup and to just "pound" as large a shim in as possible.
  • Is there a recommendation for how to split the shims while working this up? A fixed amount on the flange side?
Carrier backlash:
The semi-hint I read for this is if the backlash is too little, shims need to be moved from the flange side to opposite. Too much backlash required shims to get moved to the flange side.

Are there any other helpful hints?

In my specific case, I doing a 1992 Dodge D60 front. I'm using a Yukon master install kit with a brand new open carrier. I'm installing used Dana/Spicer 5.86 gears. I'll be using a Spartan locker.
 
Last edited:
Little thing I learned one time.

The divit in the snout of the pinion where the nut threads on.

Use a punch that fits in it instead of the nut for taking the pinion out.

I buggered up the threads one time and that was a pain in the neck.

Also...


Grind the locking end off the old nut before you start using it.
 
Use the old nut as your setup nut. I don’t mess with pinion bearing preload until the last step.

When checking a pattern slowly tighten pinion nut until you feel slight drag (the pinion shouldn’t free spin, also you don’t wanna feel the bearing crunchiness)

When you pull the carrier shims keep track of what side the shims came out of, write them down, (L 0.078 R 0.064 for example) Later this will help to adjust your backlash. Add the numbers together, It also gives you your total factory carrier preload. Subtract 0.005 from each side to make setup easier.

Pinion deeper is less BL without changing carrier shims, pinion shallower is more BL without changing carrier shims.

Once you have a good pattern take carrier out, put in new pinion seal and new pinion nut set pinion preload.

Remember to add your 0.005 shims back to each side of the carrier and tap her back in. Check pattern one last time. Seal her up and party.

A brass hammer and brass punch are your friends.
 
Last edited:
Lil said:
Little thing I learned one time.
The divit in the snout of the pinion where the nut threads on.
Use a punch that fits in it instead of the nut for taking the pinion out.
I buggered up the threads one time and that was a pain in the neck.

Also...

Grind the locking end off the old nut before you start using it.
Click to expand...
Good warning on the pinion. I've been using a "plastic" dead blow hammer with good results.

Is the theory on grinding the old nut to prevent it from sticking?

Byro said:
Use the old nut as your setup nut. I don’t mess with pinion bearing preload until the last step.

When checking a pattern slowly tighten pinion nut until you feel slight drag (the pinion shouldn’t free spin, also you don’t wanna feel the bearing crunchiness)
Click to expand...
Do you have a recommended minimum shim for starting pinion depth?

Byro said:
When you pull the carrier shims keep track of what side the shims came out of, write them down, (L 0.078 R 0.064 for example) Later this will help to adjust your backlash. Add the numbers together, It also gives you your total factory carrier preload. Subtract 0.005 from each side to make setup easier.
Click to expand...
Does this assume just changing gears? Or does this work when changing carriers?

In my case, I'm going from open 3 series to open 4 series.

Byro said:
Pinion deeper is less BL without changing carrier shims, pinion shallower is more BL without changing carrier shims.

Once you have a good pattern take carrier out, put in new pinion seal and new pinion nut set pinion preload.

Remember to add your 0.005 shims back to each side of the carrier and tap her back in. Check pattern one last time. Seal her up and party.

A brass hammer and brass punch are your friends.
Click to expand...

Good info on the up/down for the pinion as well as the reminder about the pinion seal. Do you do setup with no pinion seal or old pinion seal?

In your experience, is there any further tweaking that would need to happen when going from setup bearings to final bearings? Let us assume modified good shape old bearings and not the $90 version bought from a shop ;)
 
I don’t know how to multi qoute on my phone. So I’ll try my best here.

Grind the lock off the old nut so it comes on and off easier.

Starting pinion shim I use the OEM, that gives you a good base.

Changing gears and carrier. Again it’s a good base to start with.

Setup with out the seal.

Check your assembled height of the old bearings vs. new bearings. I’ve ran into slight variances between the OEM.


Biggest thing is write everything down, keep everything organized.
 
I was pulling pinions out and had another question.
Is there a year range or a make/model for when the "baffle" was used on the pinion?

My "virgin" 92 Dodge front with 3.54s had a baffle as did the 5.86s that were setup in another unknown year Dodge front. However, my "virgin" 2000 Ford e350 rear with 3.54s did not have the baffle.
 
Lil'John said:
I was pulling pinions out and had another question.
Is there a year range or a make/model for when the "baffle" was used on the pinion?

My "virgin" 92 Dodge front with 3.54s had a baffle as did the 5.86s that were setup in another unknown year Dodge front. However, my "virgin" 2000 Ford e350 rear with 3.54s did not have the baffle.
Click to expand...

I've heard that often the "oil slinger" is optional, but I don't know why.
 
Not sure if you've seen this but most of the info is here:
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Gear_Setup_Bible/index.html

Yukon's setup guide was decent:
https://www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/yukon_general_installation_instructions.pdf

Also knowing the difference in 2 cut vs 5 cut gears are important Ford OE SD60 gears for example. The pattern is a trapaziod making it hard to read if you are looking for a typical contact paterrn
https://www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/2-step_vs_5-step_gears.pdf
 
MtnYota said:
Not sure if you've seen this but most of the info is here:
http://www.billavista.com/tech/Articles/Gear_Setup_Bible/index.html

Yukon's setup guide was decent:
https://www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/yukon_general_installation_instructions.pdf

Also knowing the difference in 2 cut vs 5 cut gears are important Ford OE SD60 gears for example. The pattern is a trapaziod making it hard to read if you are looking for a typical contact paterrn
https://www.yukongear.com/downloads/manuals/2-step_vs_5-step_gears.pdf
Click to expand...

Thanks for the links. I already have a hard copy of the yukon setup guide in my hands.

This thread was intended to be more about "professional" tips that make the process easier or quicker. For example, the recommendation about worry about pinion pre-load last.
 
Read the bill vista link it tells you everything thing that has been posted/asked so far and more.

As another note a case spreader is not needed for a D60. I shoved a rag in between the pinion and ring gear, and then turned the pinion to force the carrier out.
 
MtnYota said:
Read the bill vista link it tells you everything thing that has been posted/asked so far and more.

As another note a case spreader is not needed for a D60. I shoved a rag in between the pinion and ring gear, and then turned the pinion to force the carrier out.
Click to expand...

True, it's not "needed" but if you want to get the carrier back in with preload (more preload = more better, within reason) you're gonna want something to spread it a couple thou.
 
You’re only supposed to spread the housing 0.015” . You can drive in that amount of shim with a deadblow. It would be easier with one, but if you’re really worried put the carrier in the freezer prior to installing.
 
make setup bearings. I used a carbide bur on an air grinder. Oil the bearings your setting up with a little bit, this makes everything run a little smoother. Thin your marking compound with gear oil until its close to chocolate syrup consistency. make sure to put some resistance on the ring gear while you rotate the pinion to get your pattern, this helps make a more defined pattern. if your putting an ARB in, get a case spreader because it moves the carrier shims to the outside of the races and its a bitch to get enough preload without the spreader.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OX1
cant stress enough, set up bearings are a must. also have axle out and on a work bench cargo strapped down makes life so much better than being bent over and on the ground
i just did my front two weeks back and we discovered that not having the oil slinger back there when it was impossible to set preload, the slinger was .70 thousands so with out it you may need that much shims. first time for me doing a ring gear so i had some learning mistakes. but very interesting for sure
 
I'm building up some courage for this and have a follow up question about pinion setup.

I see shims under the pinion bearing and pinion head. I also found shims under pinion race and carrier housing. How should shims stack up here?

Should the pinion head only have the slinger and a small shim then have the bearing "permanently" pressed on? Then do the shim adding under the race?

Or should the race be "permanently" pressed into the housing? Then do all the shim adjustments under the pinion head.
 
All the YouTube videos I’ve seen put shins behind the race inside the housing. Both bearing races of the pinion actually. I think it’s easier for common folks to remove races. Maybe with a clamshell type bearing puller it’s easier behind the bearing.
 
If you are going with the set up bearings make sure they are the same as the bearings for the final install. IE Timken, KOYO,

And don't mix the races. While they are all bearings for the same axles they are different heights among different manufactures.
 
RunningProblem said:
All the YouTube videos I’ve seen put shins behind the race inside the housing. Both bearing races of the pinion actually. I think it’s easier for common folks to remove races. Maybe with a clamshell type bearing puller it’s easier behind the bearing.
Click to expand...
After popping off the pinion bearing along with slinger there were no other shims:homer: Guess that bearing just gets pressed and left.

Lil said:
If you are going with the set up bearings make sure they are the same as the bearings for the final install. IE Timken, KOYO,

And don't mix the races. While they are all bearings for the same axles they are different heights among different manufactures.
Click to expand...
Good call. I'm lucky that all I have is Timken.
 
Can someone help me? Rebuilding my 03 super duty Dana 60 with USA standard part number "zk d60-sup" which from their website shows the same kit. Confirmed via axle tag that I do have a Dana 60. Attached is the picture of the parts I have laying here (minus some things like races sitting in the freezer). None of these shims fit the pinion to set depth. There is a ton of pinion preload shims on the bottom right, and then two sizes of huge shims (presumably to set the carrier bearing AND the bearing race in the housing?), but nothing in the middle like the pinion depth shims. There's also two huge washer things (back of the box) that don't seem to fit anything and didn't exist in the differential I pulled.

So am I missing something? Confused why the pictures online seem to show the exact same parts like I'm not missing something, but there's no obvious pinion depth shims. And then whatever the hell that huge washer thing is and the smaller corrugated one. Bought this kit from ECGS with all the other parts.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230415_002526731.jpg
    PXL_20230415_002526731.jpg
    3 MB · Views: 9
DD3C9FE0-0ECB-4452-884A-800F8D7E5014.jpeg


Red: pinion depth shims. Behind inner pinion race in housing.

Orange: diffuser, goes with the pinion depth shims, during setup I like to use shims that are the same thickness, they’re usually 0.020” then during final install pull the equal shims and install diffuser. It’s easy to mangle when going in an out with the race.

Yellow: carrier shims, under carrier bearings.

Green: diffuser, goes between outer pinion bearing and yoke.

Blue: slinger, goes between pinion head and inner pinion bearing.

Violet: pinion bearing preload shims, goes on pinion stem between outer pinion bearing.

Throw the crush sleeves away.
 
Byro said:
DD3C9FE0-0ECB-4452-884A-800F8D7E5014.jpeg


Red: pinion depth shims. Behind inner pinion race in housing.

Orange: diffuser, goes with the pinion depth shims, during setup I like to use shims that are the same thickness, they’re usually 0.020” then during final install pull the equal shims and install diffuser. It’s easy to mangle when going in an out with the race.

Yellow: carrier shims, under carrier bearings.

Green: diffuser, goes between outer pinion bearing and yoke.

Blue: slinger, goes between pinion head and inner pinion bearing.

Violet: pinion bearing preload shims, goes on pinion stem between outer pinion bearing.

Throw the crush sleeves away.
Click to expand...

Thank you very much sir! Never done gears and of course no instructions came on where the actual parts are supposed to go, and when they didn't match the original part sizes I was totally lost!
 
Byro said:
If your housing doesn’t have the big slinger behind the pinion now then don’t put it on the new gears.
Click to expand...
Got another question. Yukon gears. The shoulder seems to be too long compared to OEM, and it's so long that we can't get the two pinion bearings to preload or even sit. The USA standard rebuild came with pinion preload spacers and crush sleeves, but even with none of those installed the bearings seem to sit too far apart for the races in the housing. What am I missing? All the parts numbers and stampings seem to be correct.
 

Attachments

  • PXL_20230415_235405581.jpg
    PXL_20230415_235405581.jpg
    2.4 MB · Views: 20
I have never ran into that issue.

How big of a stack do you have behind the inner pinion race?

A good starting point is 0.040” total.
 
Byro said:
I have never ran into that issue.

How big of a stack do you have behind the inner pinion race?

A good starting point is 0.040” total.
Click to expand...
The original was .054, recommended starting in the book was .052 and we settled on .070 but didn't realize the bearings were essentially kissing at that point so went to set preload and realized we couldn't preload it. Do you think we have too much depth and it ate into the space meant for preload? I can send pictures of the pattern later but even at the .050 we started with the marking was getting worn on the outside of the tooth which is why we increased the depth to .070.

The other option is throw it on the lathe and shave the shoulder down. I'm gonna call ECGS on Monday too and see if I'm missing the obvious.
 
With .070" of pinion shim, the bearings should require a good amount of preload shims to keep them from crushing. It looks like your pinions dont match in size and yes, that shoulder is longer. Did you order super duty gears and are you 105% sure you have a 60 and not a 50?

My real question is; How did you guys preload the pinion when running the patterns? If it was loose, your patterns were wrong. Your .070" is including the slinger right?

My 60 only took .037" with yukon gears and usa standard master. With the added thickness of the slinger, my total pinion shim stack was .068". (Slinger was .031")
 
Last edited:
snivilous said:
Got another question. Yukon gears. The shoulder seems to be too long compared to OEM, and it's so long that we can't get the two pinion bearings to preload or even sit. The USA standard rebuild came with pinion preload spacers and crush sleeves, but even with none of those installed the bearings seem to sit too far apart for the races in the housing. What am I missing? All the parts numbers and stampings seem to be correct.
Click to expand...

On most aftermarket gears the shoulder is longer and you just shim it like a crush sleeve eliminator kit. Here is a picture of a stock pinion with crush sleeve and an aftermarket 5.38 revolution gear

94495412_10113591410022298_1188190990062583808_n.jpg


I agree with Byro above .040 on the depth is usually very close. Here are the numbers from the last one I did. .038" on the pinion shim and .061" on the preload stack.

119843571_10114452971760668_280644695788270402_n.jpg
 
Last edited:
Here is another one I had saved in my phone. Superduty 60 5.38 yukon gears. .040" pinion depth plus baffle and .057" on the preload shim.

3.jpg


4.jpg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Back Refresh