Furloughed for one week a month.

[Rerock]

3 on 1 off? Fuck that shit. I did 4 on 2 off for a while years ago and hated it. Hated it because only 2 weeks off sucks.

I like working even time. Not killing yourself at work and still have the off time to do whatever you want.

Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples here?

OP is talking about working Mo-Fr 9a-5p for 3 weeks, then having a week of basically forced unpaid vacation.

I think you might be thinking of working 4wks straight (like out to sea on a ship or something) then being off work for 2wks.

 

[u2slow]

You guys have seen the news, the IAM is on Strike and Brand B is furloughing all of it's non-union employees, including myself. This is the second time for me in 3-4 years.

Who do you think you can thank for that?

And Unions wonder.....................

Huh.
Seems to me Unionized is the better deal.

3 on 1 off? Fuck that shit. I did 4 on 2 off for a while years ago and hated it. Hated it because only 2 weeks off sucks.

I like working even time. Not killing yourself at work and still have the off time to do whatever you want.

The ratio has been chiseled severely. Day-for-day (10-12hr days) was the status quo. It still is for me (Unionized). That's the sensible way to run 2 shifts of remote-site work.

Unfortunately, management and the mon-fri gang think it's too generous. Suggest they work sat or sun at straight-time and all hell breaks loose.

 

[gt1guy]

Are you sure you're comparing apples to apples here?

OP is talking about working Mo-Fr 9a-5p for 3 weeks, then having a week of basically forced unpaid vacation.

I think you might be thinking of working 4wks straight (like out to sea on a ship or something) then being off work for 2wks.

I'm sure I'm NOT comparing apples to apples. And yes, I work offshore, for a reason.

We all make our choices with work. We have to live with those choices. Everyone's choice is different and there's really no apples to apples between any two different people.

Seems like OP just wanted to vent and that's cool. Others posted their thoughts of working that schedule, so I figured I share my thoughts which I know just about no one here can relate to. But it is an option that does exist. Working for a union is also an option, but layoffs and furloughs come with that. Layoffs and furloughs can come with non union jobs too.

I prefer my weekends be months long.

 

[Fishnbeer]

I was IAM union member for 10 years. I was in lodge 1101, which was several car dealerships. I guess because we resurfaced brake rotors, somehow that made us 'machinists' ...?? I had no interest in being in a union, the shop I wanted to work at was union so I had to join.

In my experience, IAM was fucking worthless. Pension is insolvent, no money left but you still have to pay into it. Fucking union rep was a fat piece of shit and was never around when we needed them. We worked out of contract for 2 years at one point, and when they finally settled it was a miniscule raise that didnt even come close to cost of living. Then during covid we were all working, but the fat piece of shit union troll 'could not be in the office because it was unsafe' so we had no union rep for 2 years.

$110 a month and did not include medical

I quit after 10 years and got hired at the same exact pay rate at a different shop

Fuck that union

 

[reptillikus]

Boeing makes a 'best and final offer' to striking union workers

Boeing is making what it calls a "best and final offer” to striking union machinists

abcnews.go.com

Boeing said Monday it made a “best and final offer” to striking union machinists that includes bigger raises and larger bonuses than a proposed contract that was overwhelmingly rejected.

The company said the offer includes pay raises of 30% over four years, up from the rejected 25% raises.


The new offer -- and labeling it a final one -- demonstrates Boeing’s eagerness to end the strike by about 33,000 machinists that began Sept. 13. The company introduced rolling furloughs of non-unionized employees last week to cut costs during the strike.

The strikers face their own financial pressure to return to work. They received their final paychecks last week and will lose company-provided health insurance at the end of the month, according to Boeing.

The company said its new offer is contingent on members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers ratifying the contract by late Friday night, when the strike will be a little over two weeks old.

The union, which represents factory workers who assemble some of the company’s best-selling planes, said it was reviewing the offer.


“Employees knew Boeing executives could do better, and this shows the workers were right all along," Brian Bryant, the union’s international president, said in a statement. "The proposal will be analyzed to see if it’s up to the task of helping workers gain adequate ground on prior sacrifices,”

Boeing's latest offer includes upfront pay raises of 12% plus three annual raises of 6% each.

It would double the size of ratification bonuses to $6,000. It also would keep annual bonuses based on productivity. In the rejected contract, Boeing sought to replace those payouts with new contributions to retirement accounts.

Boeing said average annual pay for machinists would rise from $75,608 now to $111,155 at the end of the four-year contract.

The new offer would not restore a traditional pension plan that Boeing eliminated about a decade ago. Striking workers cited pay and pensions as reasons why they voted 94.6% against the company’s previous offer.

Boeing also renewed a promise to build its next new airline plane in the Seattle area -- if that project starts in the next four years. That was a key provision for union leaders, who recommended adoption of the original contract offer, but one that seemed less persuasive to rank-and-file members.

The strike is likely already starting to reduce Boeing's ability to generate cash. The company gets much of its cash when it delivers new planes, but the strike has shut down production of 737s, 777s and 767s. Work on 787s continues with nonunion workers in South Carolina.

On Friday, Boeing began requiring thousands of managers and nonunion employees to take one week off without pay every four weeks under the temporary rolling furloughs. It also has announced a hiring freeze, reduced business travel and decreased spending on suppliers.

The money-saving measures are expected to last as long as the strike continues.

 

[roundhouse]

I don’t see Boeing surviving the doors falling off and the spaceplane fiasco and a strike .

Unless they got a lot of DoD work that’s top
secret .

 

[Clemson13]

I don’t see Boeing surviving the doors falling off and the spaceplane fiasco and a strike .

Unless they got a lot of DoD work that’s top
secret .

Bet the union votes down the updated proposal that gives em even more $

And kills the company causing the work to leave Seattle in the next 10 years

 

[shortbus4x4]

Bet the union votes down the updated proposal that gives em even more $

And kills the company causing the work to leave Seattle in the next 10 years

You're probably right.

 

[reptillikus]

Yeah Boeing already isn't doing well, this strike isn't going to help. But I wonder if they're "too big to fail"?

Boeing gives union more time to vote on an offer that's getting poor reviews from striking workers

Boeing is giving the union for 33,000 striking workers more time, but it still wants a vote on its latest contract proposal.

apnews.com

TLDR; the union won't even vote on the offer.

Full article:

Updated 7:15 PM EDT, September 24, 2024
SEATTLE (AP) — Boeing is giving the union representing striking factory workers more time to consider a revised contract offer with bigger pay increases and more bonus money, but it was unclear Tuesday whether the union would schedule a ratification vote on the proposal.

On picket lines in the Pacific Northwest, strikers said the company’s latest offer wasn’t good enough. Both the union and many of its members complained about the way Boeing bypassed the union in publicizing the offer, with some workers saying it was an unfair attempt to make them look greedy.

Boeing’s new “best and final” offer includes pay raises of 30% over four years, up from 25% in a deal that 33,000 members of the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers overwhelmingly rejected when they voted to strike. The union originally demanded 40% over three years.

In the face of opposition from the union, Boeing backed down Tuesday from a demand that workers vote on the new offer by Friday night, but the company still wants a vote.

“This strike is affecting our team and our communities, and we believe our employees should have the opportunity to vote on our offer that makes significant improvements in wages and benefits,” the company said in a statement.

The new offer seemed to have little support among strikers. Daniel Dias, a test technician at Boeing for the last six years, wasn’t bowled over.


“A 5% increase (from the previous offer)? It’s not enough. My mortgage is $4,000. I went to Safeway yesterday to get breakfast, and it cost me $62" in groceries, Dias said.

Som Dom, an electrician with 17 years at Boeing’s factory in Renton, Washington, said workers need better wages for the high cost of living in the Seattle area.

“We just want a fair deal. We’re not greedy,” Dom said. “It’s tough to live in this state. You’ve got to make over $160,000, something like that, to buy a house. The new hires, they make $25, $26 an hour. So that (offer) isn’t going to be enough.”

Boeing officials told union representatives about their new offer Monday morning, a couple hours before announcing it to workers through the media.

“Boeing does not get to decide when or if you vote,” union officials told members late Monday. “This proposal does not go far enough to address your concerns, and Boeing has missed the mark with this proposal.”

John Lentz, a Boeing electrician who joined co-workers in waving strike signs along a side road near the Renton factory, said the way Boeing bypassed union negotiators in announcing the offer “seems to be kind of shady there. We do have people that are in place to negotiate for us.”

Boeing said its latest offer includes upfront pay raises of 12% plus three annual raises of 6% each and would take the average annual pay for machinists from $75,608 now to $111,155 at the end of the four-year contract.

It also would keep annual bonuses based on productivity. In the rejected contract, Boeing sought to replace those payouts with new contributions to retirement accounts.

John Reifel, who has spent nearly 25 years at Boeing, said the company was trying to make the strikers look unreasonable when they are only seeking to negotiate a contract for the first time in more than a decade.

“We build a product that people’s lives depend on,” Reifel said. “There will be plenty of bonus money to go around for upper-level and mid-level and first-level managers and all that, but if we don’t build it, there’s no product. And we work hard.”

The two sides have not held formal negotiations in nearly a week, since two days of sessions led by federal mediators broke off.

Boeing, which has encountered serious financial, legal and mechanical challenges this year, is eager to end the 12-day-old walkout that has halted production of its best-selling airline planes.

Cai von Rumohr, an aviation analyst at financial services firm TD Cowen, said Boeing’s decision to make its latest offer in the absence of additional bargaining sessions put a proposed second ratification vote in doubt.

“If it fails, it should prompt union leadership to reengage in serious negotiations,” he said. However, union leadership’s support for Boeing’s previous offer — which lost in a 96% strike vote — raises questions about the union’s ability to win support for the new, improved offer, he said.

The strike has shut down production of Boeing 737s, 767s and 777s and is causing the company to make cost-cutting moves, including rolling temporary furloughs for thousands of nonunion managers and employees.

Boeing has lost more than $25 billion since the start of 2019 and fallen far behind rival Airbus in orders and deliveries of planes to airline customers. It needs to deliver more planes to bring in cash, but federal regulators are limiting production of 737s — Boeing’s best-selling plane — to 38 per month until the company improves its quality-control process. Boeing was producing fewer than 38 before the strike.

The downturn started after two deadly crashes involving Boeing 737 Max jets, and worsened after a panel called a door plug blew off another Max during an Alaska Airlines flight in January.

Boeing’s critics, including some whistleblowers from inside the company, claim Boeing cut corners during production and put profits above safety.

The head of the Federal Aviation Administration, Boeing’s regulator, said Tuesday that while it is not his job to assess Boeing’s finances, giving too little attention to safety has not turned out well for the company.

“Even if profits were your No. 1 goal, safety really needs to be your No. 1 goal because it’s hard to be profitable if you’re not safe, and I think Boeing certainly has learned that,” FAA Administrator Mike Whitaker said during a U.S. House subcommittee hearing. “Whatever money might have been saved has certainly been lost in the fallout.”

Whitaker, who previously acknowledged his agency’s oversight of Boeing wasn’t strong enough, told lawmakers that since Boeing submitted a plan to improve its manufacturing in late May, “They have been trending in the right direction.”

Still, he said, it will take years for Boeing to fully change its safety system and culture.

 

[AKnate]

I was IAM union member for 10 years. I was in lodge 1101, which was several car dealerships. I guess because we resurfaced brake rotors, somehow that made us 'machinists' ...?? I had no interest in being in a union, the shop I wanted to work at was union so I had to join.

In my experience, IAM was fucking worthless. Pension is insolvent, no money left but you still have to pay into it. Fucking union rep was a fat piece of shit and was never around when we needed them. We worked out of contract for 2 years at one point, and when they finally settled it was a miniscule raise that didnt even come close to cost of living. Then during covid we were all working, but the fat piece of shit union troll 'could not be in the office because it was unsafe' so we had no union rep for 2 years.

$110 a month and did not include medical

I quit after 10 years and got hired at the same exact pay rate at a different shop

Fuck that union

Pretty much how local 71 was at the DOT.

I didn't even know it was a union job when I got hired after my 2nd paycheck I went to HR to figure out what a random deduction was for.

 

[reptillikus]

Now is when Boeing begins to feel the hurt

Boeing confirms production of 737s has halted

Amid ongoing union strike, “airplane production in Washington state is temporarily paused,” Boeing told Fortune.

fortune.com

Short version:

“Airplane production in Washington state is temporarily paused including work on the 737 MAX, 767, 777/777X, P-8, KC-46A Tanker, E-7 Wedgetail,” a spokesperson wrote Fortune in an email Wednesday. “Work at our Fabrication sites in Washington and Oregon will also temporarily pause. Employees not represented by this union will continue to report to work as normal.”

Full article:

September 25, 2024 at 2:17 PM EDT
Miami, USA - February 11, 2022: Delta Airlines airplane (Boeing 737-900) taking off by Miami International airport. Founded in 1925, Delta is one of the major airlines of the United States and a legacy carrier.
The stoppage’s full impact on actual deliveries of the planes “remains uncertain,” Bank of America analysts wrote.

Boeing’s production of 737 jets has come to a “complete halt” as the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers (IAM) strike continues, according to a Bank of America analyst note sent out on Tuesday.

Two separate representatives for Boeing confirmed the production stoppage to Fortune.

“Airplane production in Washington state is temporarily paused including work on the 737 MAX, 767, 777/777X, P-8, KC-46A Tanker, E-7 Wedgetail,” a spokesperson wrote Fortune in an email Wednesday. “Work at our Fabrication sites in Washington and Oregon will also temporarily pause. Employees not represented by this union will continue to report to work as normal.”


Boeing’s stock fell more than 2% on Wednesday, at the time of publication.

The stoppage’s full impact on actual deliveries of the planes “remains uncertain,” BofA analysts wrote. But the pace has nonetheless “slowed significantly.” Only two 737s have been delivered in the last week, which they say is “well below normal levels.”

As for the 787 jets—a different, less embattled model—Boeing has made zero deliveries over the past week, and has only delivered two in all of September. But BofA “expects Boeing to maintain the same levels of rollouts compared to last month” because the assembly line tasked with 787 production is “mainly unaffected by unions.” As a result, BofA maintained its rating on the stock as neutral.


The prolonged union battle has gripped Boeing since September 13, when 33,000 workers walked off the job.

On Monday, the aircraft manufacturer said it had made its “best and final offer” to its on-strike machinists, and it was replete with “bigger raises and larger bonuses,” amounting to a 30% raise over four years. In turn, the union said the proposal fell short of expectations, and they would not be voting on a contract before Boeing’s deadline later this week. The union also complained that Boeing released its offer to the public and media before bargaining with them—making them appear to be greedy.

“We just want a fair deal. We’re not greedy,” one worker said. “It’s tough to live in [Washington state]. You’ve got to make over $160,000, something like that, to buy a house. New hires make $25, $26 an hour. So [Boeing’s offer] isn’t going to be enough.”


Representatives for IAM Union District 751, which represents Seattle-area Boeing workers, did not return Fortune’s follow-up requests for comment.

In any case, Boeing cannot afford to lose more business.

Last week, its CFO, Brian West, sent a memo to employees explaining that the strike “jeopardizes our recovery in a significant way.” In an effort to preserve cash and “safeguard” the company’s future, it would need to cut costs—quickly.


Those measures include a company-wide hiring freeze, a pause in raises and promotions, the end of halting any non-essential travel, and pausing all spending on charitable giving, marketing and advertising. Also in consideration: “the difficult step of temporary furloughs” for many workers.


Boeing is desperate to improve its cash flow, which it can’t do without delivering more planes faster. That’s “impossible” to do without ending the strike, James Darcy, founder of aerospace advisory firm Darcy Strategic, told Fortune last week. “Yet the terms on which they may need to agree to settle the strike will do nothing to help their cash flow in the long term.”

Indeed, “the amount of leverage that Boeing’s workers have over the company at this moment is unprecedented, but bringing Boeing to its knees is certainly not in their long-term best interest,” Darcy went on. The company must come to the negotiating table “with a degree of humility that they haven’t shown in the past, but the labor side will need to retain a great deal of pragmatism if both sides are to have a healthy future.”

 

[east_beast]

Forcing me to take a 25% reduction in pay due to furlough while also restricting my ability to supplement that income? Fuck right off. I'd absolutely try to get a side gig and I'd be looking for an outright exit ramp, period.

 

[gunracer1]

I have been in three different manufacturing unions. They all suck, take care of the slugs and fuck over the workers.

 

[[486]]

I have been in three different manufacturing unions. They all suck, take care of the slugs and fuck over the workers.

Democracy!

 

[shortbus4x4]

They all suck, take care of the slugs and fuck over the workers.

And that is why unions suck today. If they were also quality control for the workers in their union and got rid of the incompetent and lazy workers they would probably have a better reputation and companies would be more willing to meet their demands.

 

[u2slow]

I have been in three different manufacturing unions. They all suck, take care of the slugs and fuck over the workers.

How's that 'fool me once...' saying go?

Time to leave that scene. Manufacturing, like construction, is a race to the bottom. Doesn't have much to do wether it's union or not. Outsourcing labour to foreigners makes the books look best.

 

[cervelorod]

And that is why unions suck today. If they were also quality control for the workers in their union and got rid of the incompetent and lazy workers they would probably have a better reputation and companies would be more willing to meet their demands.

Always wondered about this. It seems like unions just want as many people on the register as possible, no matter if they are fuckups or not. And the more fuckyuppy they are the better. It’s REALLY quiet in Moses Lake right now. They had some protesters at one of the gates, but nobody but Boeing people drive by, so I think they abandoned it after the local tabloid got some pics.

One part of me wants Boeing to pull a Reagan and just let them go, and start anew. Maybe big B will declare bankruptcy and force their hand. I’m sure some feel they are worth top Seattle pay out here, but we sure don’t have Seattle costs.

 

[RusM]

Bet the union votes down the updated proposal that gives em even more $

And kills the company causing the work to leave Seattle in the next 10 years

They've been leaving since the 70's, might stick soon though.

 

[Pony_Driver]

Yeah Boeing already isn't doing well, this strike isn't going to help. But I wonder if they're "too big to fail"?

Boeing gives union more time to vote on an offer that's getting poor reviews from striking workers

Boeing is giving the union for 33,000 striking workers more time, but it still wants a vote on its latest contract proposal.

apnews.com

TLDR; the union won't even vote on the offer.

Full article:

It would be bad for our defense industrial base for sure, but like a bankruptcy and restructuring, maybe Boeing can come out the other side stronger. Only time will tell. Aircraft manufacturing and sales is a huge deal on the global stage and a source of much national pride. I would like to see the $$$ flow and see if there is any outside influence on this union deal or if it's all in house greed.

 

[roundhouse]

It would be bad for our defense industrial base for sure, but like a bankruptcy and restructuring, maybe Boeing can come out the other side stronger. Only time will tell. Aircraft manufacturing and sales is a huge deal on the global stage and a source of much national pride. I would like to see the $$$ flow and see if there is any outside influence on this union deal or if it's all in house greed.

If they did that the fedgovihht do like GM and bail out the company , screw the stockholders and give the company to the union .

 

[roundhouse]

You guys have seen the news, the IAM is on Strike and Brand B is furloughing all of it's non-union employees, including myself. This is the second time for me in 3-4 years. I'm not singing the blues here, maybe just need to talk. I still get 75% of my paycheck and benefits, plus a week off a month. Honestly it's a good time for a break and I have money saved up. It's a fucking nightmare getting a group of 30 people to discuss/decide on who gets which week off. So-and-so has a trip planned to Cabo, other So-and-so has surgery scheduled, so-and so has a wedding to attend.... My last manager was more of a type A personality, he just assigned the furlough weeks and that was it. This new group I'm in, it's a vote/discussion which takes so much longer.

Also, last time I was furloughed, I applied for unemployment for the first time in my life, ended up paying half of it back after appeals and such. I'm pretty sure my paperwork was accurate, it was either the state of Washington or brand B who screwed something up.

I support the IAM and think they should hold out for everything they can get. I'm still getting paid (less), but from IAM friends I speak with and everything I read in the news, this is going to be a long strike. Possibly into 2025. That's a lot of people out of work or on reduced pay, we will see what happens I guess.

What bothers me is I can't get a second job to make up for the difference without submitting a conflict of interest through HR. I get it, getting a remote job for a competitor or supplier would be unethical, but putting my skills to use in a different facet of aviation or industry in general?

Is the strike just at the Seattle plant or are
Their other plants in the east affected ?

 

[reptillikus]

“Work at our Fabrication sites in Washington and Oregon will also temporarily pause. Employees not represented by this union will continue to report to work as normal.”

Sourced from here:

Boeing confirms production of 737s has halted

Amid ongoing union strike, “airplane production in Washington state is temporarily paused,” Boeing told Fortune.

fortune.com

I haven't heard about anything in the East yet. A buddy used to work at the PA plant, I'll have to ask him if he's heard anything.

 

[RM222]

Is the strike just at the Seattle plant or are
Their other plants in the east affected ?

All of North America is what they’re telling us un-represented folks except for 787 specific people in some cases.

 

[roundhouse]

Sourced from here:

Boeing confirms production of 737s has halted

Amid ongoing union strike, “airplane production in Washington state is temporarily paused,” Boeing told Fortune.

fortune.com

I haven't heard about anything in the East yet. A buddy used to work at the PA plant, I'll have to ask him if he's heard anything.

Was curious specifically about the plant where the osprey is made .

 

[1oddtech]

Could Boeing just tell them to stuff it and hire new employees non union? Move manufacturing to a different state?

 

[u2slow]

Could Boeing just tell them to stuff it and hire new employees non union? Move manufacturing to a different state?

More likely to go to temporary foreign workers, or completely outside the US.

 

[RM222]

Could Boeing just tell them to stuff it and hire new employees non union? Move manufacturing to a different state?

They all ready did that in South Carolina, and in so-cal. I had the “opportunity” to reapply for my job.

 

[Pony_Driver]

Could Boeing just tell them to stuff it and hire new employees non union? Move manufacturing to a different state?

They could, but that is a long and costly option.

 

[1oddtech]

Would it be cheaper long term tho?

 

[u2slow]

Would it be cheaper long term tho?

Within the company, sure. The execs can slide saved wages into their own pockets or make their profits look more impressive.

Cheaper airfare for the masses? No F'ing way.