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Explorer 5.0 PS pump

MtnYota

Mean Dad
Joined
May 21, 2020
Member Number
971
Messages
78
Location
Ben Lomond, Ca
I'm have 99 explorer with a 5.0 and running a 2.5" full hydro ram. I am unable to find much info on the stock ps pump.

Double ended ram effective piston area = 3.14 sqin
Stroke = 8in
Volume lock to lock = 25.12 cuin
Orbital size = 7.33 cuin
Turns lock to lock = 3.4

It sees like being able to turn from center to full lock in 1 second would be about right.

Required pump gpm for 1.5 turn per second = 2.9 gpm
Required pump gpm for 2 turn per second = 3.8 gpm

From what I can tell it's a TC style pump, which according to BV steering bible could be in the 2.4-2.8 gpm range, which might be ok, but I've also read it could be a lower output that the jeep specs in the bible.

PSC didn't seem very interested in selling me a pump. They told me i might be able to fit their 1200 series, but that I'll burn them up really fast with full hydro.

What other options are there? I've read a couple inconclusive threads CBR pump has the same mounting configuration as the TC pumps but has higher output flow and pressure.
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
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Member Number
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Messages
952
Location
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Why would you burn the 1200 series pumps out? That is what JR4X said he is running on their 4500 car with the kickass servo steering and 2.5" ram. I know 4.5 GPM is a bit much for your application since you are only needing ~3.3GPM, but I can't imagine it killing pumps just because you can't steer as fast as he can. I imagine with an appropriately sized cooler it should be fine.

Since, you already have the Explorer pump, why not just see how it works with the ram before you decide whether it needs to be upgraded or not?
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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Member Number
971
Messages
78
Location
Ben Lomond, Ca
I don’t know why psc said they’re tc pump wouldn’t last. I’ve had on on another rig for 8yrs. Not real motivated to give them anymore money after that.

i found a thread on classic bronco’s where they were swapping the internals from a super duty into the explorer housing, but there was no definitive answer on how much of an increase it provided.

i understand, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, just trying to avoid doing things twice.
 

Rangerrod

Red Skull Member
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
264
Messages
203
I believe solo Motorsports in ca I’ve seen on social media where they’ll rework ford factory power steering brackets to run Saginaw canned ham pumps. Which I believe will get you to a p-series pump.

another option is wild horses sells this bracket to adapt it over. Again I believe you can get to p-series pump.

https://www.wildhorses4x4.com/produ...-Bracket-Set-non-AC-only/EXPLORER5ENGINEPARTS

let me know what you end up doing as I’m getting ready to put an explorer front dress on my motor.
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
Joined
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Member Number
293
Messages
952
Location
NM
I don’t know why psc said they’re tc pump wouldn’t last. I’ve had on on another rig for 8yrs. Not real motivated to give them anymore money after that.

i found a thread on classic bronco’s where they were swapping the internals from a super duty into the explorer housing, but there was no definitive answer on how much of an increase it provided.

i understand, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, just trying to avoid doing things twice.

I can understand. It seems like a lot of the steering companies have their heads up their asses. It was amazing how they all told JR4X what he was doing wouldn't/couldn't work, and someone from one of the companies even started posting in his thread to tell him it doesn't work despite all the evidence and explanations JR4X posted to the contrary :laughing:

Do you have a link to the Classic Broncos thread you referenced? I have an Explorer 5.0L I bought complete recently, and will be running some sort of hydraulic assist on it, so I would be interested in seeing if I could potentially make the stock pump work for cheaper than an aftermarket one.
 

Hyde

Andgoseek
Joined
May 26, 2020
Member Number
1468
Messages
145
Location
North Idaho
Yours looks like you might be able to basically bolt in a TC/CBR style pump. CBR pump seems like the way to go, I'll probably swap to that if I kill the mystery pump I found on my buddies parts shelf (Possible TG pump)

Running a 2x8 assist ram with 38s
IMG_20200518_092749686.jpg
 

welndmn

Well Done Man
Joined
May 21, 2020
Member Number
1008
Messages
362
Location
Concord, CA
PSC at one time sold a modded Explorer pump, but it was a marginal improvement.
I've already read about people doing that super duty swap, but I've also seen a lot of stock superduty pumps just suck ass too.
Swap on an P pump with the Wild horses brackets.
I run the explorer setup with a P pump on full hydro and it's great.
 

ScottRS

Not @Rockstomper today
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
298
Messages
406
Location
Firestone, CO
CB should be fine for what you're after. About the easiest pump around to make a mounting bracket for. I ran two of them (2.75 DE cylinders, rear steer) for years on my buggy, will be running them again on my Jeep once it's put together. I run a single one on my 4Runner with 1.5" ram hydro assist.
Flow rate is better than the TC, but RPM limit is lower. IIRC, about 4ish GPM stock. I dismantle, tap the inlet for 1/2" pipe, adapt that to JIC-10, swap an Afco JIC-6 outlet fitting in, run a remote reservoir, pulley appropriate, etc. Stock application for the pumps I'm running is '93-ish Saturn.
Keep the pump shaft RPM under 7k, keep the pressure under 1400, run a decent cooler, I personally run Mobil1 0w20 for hydraulic fluid, and you should be in good shape.
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
Joined
May 21, 2020
Member Number
971
Messages
78
Location
Ben Lomond, Ca
I ordered the CBR pump from the 2017 Duramax. I found some pretty good info here:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cbr...tions.1131173/

I'm going to try and make the pump inlet -12 and i'm undecided on the outlet. The psc full hydro kit i have has -6 fittings for everything; however when you talk to psc they recommend -8 for the pump outlet and return from the orbital. I'm less and less impressed with them the more I deal with them.
 

Pt_Ranger_v8

A dministrator
Joined
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406
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721
Location
flyover land
I ordered the CBR pump from the 2017 Duramax. I found some pretty good info here:
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/cbr...tions.1131173/

I'm going to try and make the pump inlet -12 and i'm undecided on the outlet. The psc full hydro kit i have has -6 fittings for everything; however when you talk to psc they recommend -8 for the pump outlet and return from the orbital. I'm less and less impressed with them the more I deal with them.

How much did that pump run? And how are you going to mount a pulley on it?


I'd love to get rid of my stock ford junk, for sure, and I've got hydroboost on two vehicles. :smokin:
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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971
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Location
Ben Lomond, Ca
I bought it from the amazon link above $153. Far as I can tell its a standard shaft size for a press on pully. Probably get a dorman unit off amazon for ~$30
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
Joined
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Member Number
971
Messages
78
Location
Ben Lomond, Ca
I recieved the pump today.

The inlet is a m16 x1.5 oring fitting, so i'll most likely adapt it to -6. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfn-sf02
Pump shaft is 0.663" so should be a standard press-on pulley like this one https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (<-I need to confirm)

I havn't messed with adjusting the front to back location to make sure the pulley lines up, but so far it's looking good. I had a slight interference shown below that I had to grind.
Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0453.png Views:	0 Size:	3.45 MB ID:	44274

One more interference here, although this may go away if the pump needs to be spaced back.
Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0459 with markup.png Views:	0 Size:	2.29 MB ID:	44275

Tomorrow I'll take it to work to tap the inlet. I'm shooting to get a 3/4 npt in there. Tap drill size is 0.922 so it should work.
Click image for larger version  Name:	IMG_0460.JPG Views:	0 Size:	180.4 KB ID:	44295
 
Last edited:

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
Joined
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Member Number
293
Messages
952
Location
NM
I recieved the pump today.

The inlet is a m16 x1.5 oring fitting, so i'll most likely adapt it to -6. https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pfn-sf02
Pump shaft is 0.663" so should be a standard press-on pulley like this one https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (<-I need to confirm)

I havn't messed with adjusting the front to back location to make sure the pulley lines up, but so far it's looking good. I had a slight interference shown below that I had to grind.
filedata/fetch?id=44274&d=1592529515

One more interference here, although this may go away if the pump needs to be spaced back.
filedata/fetch?id=44275&d=1592530364

Tomorrow I'll take it to work to tap the inlet. I'm shooting to get a 3/4 npt in there. Tap drill size is 0.922 so it should work.
filedata/fetch?id=44295&d=1592531242

Any updates on this?

This looks promising and depending on your results, I might just go this route on my Explorer 5.0L :smokin:
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
Joined
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Location
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Everything is installed and bled. I tapped the inlet to 3/4NPT and installed a -10AN x 3/4 MNPT straight adapter. I used a long sweep 150° fitting https://www.summitracing.com/parts/vpe-22510
But I haven't made the full hydro tie rods to the knuckles. I also don't have wheels & tires, so it maybe a little bit yet before I can tell you how it performs.
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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Member Number
971
Messages
78
Location
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Today, I got the tie rod linkages mad for my double ended ram. I cycled the steering and everything felt good, but when I reved the engine i started to get a rattling sound. Most likely this is coming from the powersteering pump. Ive continued to try and bleed the system but it still remains. SO i'm i little baffled.
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
Joined
May 19, 2020
Member Number
293
Messages
952
Location
NM
Today, I got the tie rod linkages mad for my double ended ram. I cycled the steering and everything felt good, but when I reved the engine i started to get a rattling sound. Most likely this is coming from the powersteering pump. Ive continued to try and bleed the system but it still remains. SO i'm i little baffled.

"Rattling" is kind of an odd sound for a steering pump to make :confused:

What is the drive ratio you have to your pump? Maybe you just got a bad one and can warranty it out?
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
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I was getting bubbles in the reservoir every time I shut off the engine. I epoxied the ps pump npt tapped inlet and the bubbles stopped.

Here is a video of the sound it's making:
https://youtu.be/isBZA1X8Umw

I have never heard that noise from a pump before :confused:

Again, what's your drive ratio? I doubt it is bad enough to be over-revving the pump just over 2,000 RPM, but it would be good to rule it out.
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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Per Rockauto the crankpulley is 6.375 my ps pulley is 5.313 so at 2000rpm the pump would be at 2400rpm.
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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Tonight I pulled the pressure relief valve and it was stuck in it's bore. There is a little aluminum transfer to the piston. I dressed it with some 1500 grit and tried to fit it again but it did the same thing. I think there is a burr where the pump outlet enters the pressure relief bore. I'm going to dress it and reassemble tomorrow.
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
Joined
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Member Number
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Location
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Tonight I pulled the pressure relief valve and it was stuck in it's bore. There is a little aluminum transfer to the piston. I dressed it with some 1500 grit and tried to fit it again but it did the same thing. I think there is a burr where the pump outlet enters the pressure relief bore. I'm going to dress it and reassemble tomorrow.

Are you thinking that this is a result of debris getting in from when you tapped the pump, or just a manufacturing defect?
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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Location
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I'm not sure. I used the earplug method to keep the chips out. I didn't see any debris inside the bore. So it most likely was either defective or i clamped it too hard in the mill. I clamped away from this area, but I guess it's possible.
 

Hyde

Andgoseek
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Location
North Idaho
I'm not sure. I used the earplug method to keep the chips out. I didn't see any debris inside the bore. So it most likely was either defective or i clamped it too hard in the mill. I clamped away from this area, but I guess it's possible.

Mine was a used mystery pump off my buddies parts shelf, also used the earplug method to drill/tap and didn't prep very well. My guess would be a manufacturing defect. Hopefully you can clean it up and it'll be fine
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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I was able to hone the relief cylinder bore tonight until the piston moved smoothly. I put it together and the rattle sound is gone. Now I just need to find some tires and put it under load.
 

arse_sidewards

Masshole
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I was able to hone the relief cylinder bore tonight until the piston moved smoothly. I put it together and the rattle sound is gone. Now I just need to find some tires and put it under load.

Just take a 4" strap and strap the knuckle to the axle housing. :flipoff2:
 

'84 Bronco II

El Chingón
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Location
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I was able to hone the relief cylinder bore tonight until the piston moved smoothly. I put it together and the rattle sound is gone. Now I just need to find some tires and put it under load.

Did you find some tires yet? I am really curious to see how this pump did for you. It would be a lot cheaper than shelling out for the PSC CBR pump.
 

MtnYota

Mean Dad
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I have been slow. We got evacuated for the fires and then I got sent out of town on work for 3 months. Wish I had better news for ya.
 
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