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DRIVESHAFT TECH IN CHIT CHAT WANTS: 74'' 7K RPM

xr-nut said:
looking at the first hand drawn pic, the trans is pointing down 3.3. the shaft is pointing less down at 2.1. I think spicer said we need to have that angle within 1 to 1.5 deg. then match the diff pinion to the front shaft angle. and in the hand drawn pic it is. 2.1 down. thats all the nonsense in that pic. Im at work today and can move things, the truck is here.

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But Spicer says those yokes on the front shaft are to be 90* out of phase when the angle is that small, yours are "in phase" or aligned with each other.
 
truck is sitting on lift, on its tires at ride height. (lift ramp is .8 up from level ground)

pinion is 3.4 DOWN
trans yoke is 4.4 DOWN
the center shaft behind the carrier is 2.7 DOWN (runout on that is 6-8 thou)

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CarterKraft said:
But Spicer says those yokes on the front shaft are to be 90* out of phase when the angle is that small, yours are "in phase" or aligned with each other.
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is that the problem? I cant turn the yoke on the rear due to the one-way fitment of the blue shit. action told me I could cut out the black groove in the blue shit to get it to turn, im concerned when I do that the rest of the blue shit will come loose and ruin that fitment?




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xr-nut said:
truck is sitting on lift, on its tires at ride height. (lift ramp is .8 up from level ground)

pinion is 3.4 DOWN
trans yoke is 4.4 DOWN
the center shaft behind the carrier is 2.7 DOWN (runout on that is 6-8 thou)

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With digital angle gauges it really easy to flub the directions, both of those are showing left side down arrow and a positive number. Does that make the prop shaft stub be pointing up at the rear?
 
xr-nut said:
Bump for me shaft woes. Its installed and per the drawing should be good according to the instructions from Spicer for two piece install. It shakes bad. Had it to 40 to and it shakes bad enough I think it'll break something underneath. :eek:

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IMHO from your picutes, Your carrier is too low. Your joints look fine and marked from them balancing it. The input is supposed to point down to the pinion. When power is applied, the driveshaft wants to rotate up. Since your yoke is already up and carrier down, the angle is getting worse under power. Measure a flat bar on the front of the pinion yoke. It looks positive.
 
xr-nut said:
that sure looks like it could be part of my issue?
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The deal is I didn't know that was a thing.... I thought the yokes were always phased "in" not 90* out.
Thats a question for the real pros or maybe more research, if you hadn't posted that doc I wouldn't have known anything about it.
 
Try it zeroed out? Adjust the midship mount so that the trans side shaft is the same angle relative to the trans output. Adjust the pinion to be opposite relative to the trans output. The axle side shaft angles will be equal and opposite to the trans output (and by extension the trans side shaft). Fine tune from there.
Think of the first part of the shaft (trans side) as just an extension of the trans output.
 
greenlion said:
Try it zeroed out? Adjust the midship mount so that the trans side shaft is the same angle relative to the trans output. Adjust the pinion to be opposite relative to the trans output. The axle side shaft angles will be equal and opposite to the trans output (and by extension the trans side shaft). Fine tune from there.
Think of the first part of the shaft (trans side) as just an extension of the trans output.
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so heres the issue with that plan. from my son, my mechanic and art drawerererer :laughing:


IF i lower the midship mount to get that first shaft inline with the output on the trans(make it an extension of the output shaft) then that would put the front of the rear shaft below the diff pinion. the rear shaft would have to be running uphill from the front.

does that work? action says that will not work. I'mnot against trying it, just asking.
 
From a vibration standpoint it should work. It is what the spice diagram is asking you to do. It doesn't "look" good I guess. Can the transsmission output be raised to lessen the angle some?
Alternatively you could make the angle on the middle joint near zero and do opposite and equal at the trans and pinion ends.
U-joints just need to be equaled out. Having the middle fixed will introduce some uncompensated angle change as the axle moves, possibly not enough to matter in a street car suspension.
 
How stable is the tube that you mounted the pillow block on? Maybe it can't handle the force from the ds and starts to vibrate.
 
M92PV4U said:
How stable is the tube that you mounted the pillow block on? Maybe it can't handle the force from the ds and starts to vibrate.
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anythings possible. it is a structural cross member, I would think it to be good enough. if anything I would guess my cobblefabbed mount would be more a possibility for that. :laughing:
 
I don't think there is actually much force on the carrier when it's operating correctly.
I wouldn't worry about the mount, looked good enough to me.
 
Did you had the pinion end of driveshaft’s u-joint seated & positively verified to be correct type of u-joints installed for the yoke you have on your rear end?

I sees there’s C clips on caps. May need to rotate them as needed to align/center u-joint to the yoke, or remove them to allow caps to seat (and centered by yoke’s outer “tits”)

With trans and pinion shafts angles very close to each other, I think it’s something else. Either installer error or seriously defective driveshaft assembly. Jeeps or trucks running 5.xxx ring & pinion, get lifted with zero thoughts into drive shaft angles, and more, and driveshafts spinning much faster than your’s and still no violent shake at 40 mph. IMHO.
 
I think the problem is the straight assembly, that's not really what U joints are good at.
What describes is exactly how my dads burb is.
The shaft is damn near inline, with a lot of angle the shaft can actually operate as designed.
 
Looking back at the spicer diagrams and your install pics, it looks like the joint at the splined portion is 90 out to use in an orientation with the trans side shaft level (previously noted?). You will have to turn this piece to match the diagram or setup the shaft to have no angle on the middle joint. Since that slip appears to have a master spline, it seems easier to adjust the carrier mount to eliminate that angle.
 
Key points in my automotive tech in college - in the drivetrain course years ago -

General rule are;
no less than 1* at u-joints, or the u-joint will have issues from not moving around enough. Leading to brinelling type of failures.

second, u-joints must to be in phase to cancel each others’ phasing out if not CV/double cardan on one end.

And of course can’t rule out a driveshaft with horrible runout or balance.
 
TrailTamer said:
Did you had the pinion end of driveshaft’s u-joint seated & positively verified to be correct type of u-joints installed for the yoke you have on your rear end?

I sees there’s C clips on caps. May need to rotate them as needed to align/center u-joint to the yoke, or remove them to allow caps to seat (and centered by yoke’s outer “tits”)

With trans and pinion shafts angles very close to each other, I think it’s something else. Either installer error or seriously defective driveshaft assembly. Jeeps or trucks running 5.xxx ring & pinion, get lifted with zero thoughts into drive shaft angles, and more, and driveshafts spinning much faster than your’s and still no violent shake at 40 mph. IMHO.
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Yes, the diff end is correct. the caps fit well, the clips are snug against the yoke and the straps hold it all in there. it was spec'd for that diff and yoke. (I know they could have f'd it up)

I'm going to push this north of 100 all of the time(likely daily :laughing:), near 140 to tech speed frequently. occasionally up to 150. so it will spin very fast. thats the entire reason Im putting this 2 piece in. the experts say I'll die with the one piece.

bad zuki said:
Did the driveshaft company recommend any rubber for the carrier bearing?
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no. for the speeds Im intending to spin it, they said this is the best option.
CarterKraft said:
I think the problem is the straight assembly, that's not really what U joints are good at.
What describes is exactly how my dads burb is.
The shaft is damn near inline, with a lot of angle the shaft can actually operate as designed.
Click to expand...
so do you not recommend what coloredlionguy is recommending? putting the front as straight as possible and then adjusting the diff for equal yet opposite on the rear shaft?
greenlion said:
Looking back at the spicer diagrams and your install pics, it looks like the joint at the splined portion is 90 out to use in an orientation with the trans side shaft level (previously noted?). You will have to turn this piece to match the diagram or setup the shaft to have no angle on the middle joint. Since that slip appears to have a master spline, it seems easier to adjust the carrier mount to eliminate that angle.
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action machine said I could scrape out the blue shit on that spline to make it adjustable. maybe I'll just do that now and go try it. if the rest of the blue stuff comes off and its a floppy loose joint Im not really out anything, I cant use it as it is anyhow.
 
xr-nut said:
Yes, the diff end is correct. the caps fit well, the clips are snug against the yoke and the straps hold it all in there. it was spec'd for that diff and yoke. (I know they could have f'd it up)

I'm going to push this north of 100 all of the time(likely daily :laughing:), near 140 to tech speed frequently. occasionally up to 150. so it will spin very fast. thats the entire reason Im putting this 2 piece in. the experts say I'll die with the one piece.


no. for the speeds Im intending to spin it, they said this is the best option.

so do you not recommend what coloredlionguy is recommending? putting the front as straight as possible and then adjusting the diff for equal yet opposite on the rear shaft?

action machine said I could scrape out the blue shit on that spline to make it adjustable. maybe I'll just do that now and go try it. if the rest of the blue stuff comes off and its a floppy loose joint Im not really out anything, I cant use it as it is anyhow.
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I would try the straight setup as described with the yoke turned 90 per the spicer diagram.
I think the blue stuff will be fine, I can't imagine this is going to have a lot of slip like a 4x4.
 
Bummer man, how frustrating.

As mentioned by many, issues I have experienced

u-joints out of phase, mostly 90 off but oddly once had one 180 off (incorrect marking job)

not enough angle in the joints, added shims once to increase angle and it solved a almost death wobble bad vibration

then to counter that, had a lifted jeep that just plain vibed at all speeds. Was in-between lift heights, so as a temporary solution, took all the angle out the driveshaft except at back of t-case, thinking I would just consider that u-joint as a wearable item. cured the vibes (and odd because rear ujoint was at 0 angle) ran about 9 months in that configuration and really expected vibes when I lifted some more and added the angles back. Not a chirp from the ujoints.

Is this speed specific or speed range specific? Can you stick a gopro to record the joints or carrier bearing.

Did have a 5 series BMW "racecar" once that had bad vibes on a new shaft, also low to no angles, and the brand new carrier bearing was bad.

Hope you get this sorted
 
xr-nut said:
Yes, the diff end is correct. the caps fit well, the clips are snug against the yoke and the straps hold it all in there. it was spec'd for that diff and yoke. (I know they could have f'd it up)
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Yea, they can easily put something wrong in there and looked fine on a glance.
xr-nut said:
I'm going to push this north of 100 all of the time(likely daily :laughing:), near 140 to tech speed frequently. occasionally up to 150. so it will spin very fast. thats the entire reason Im putting this 2 piece in. the experts say I'll die with the one piece.
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To my understanding it's “ok” on an intermittent basis. Although in your case I’d want something made for the speed. The carnage, potentially fatally, will be disastrous if it go boom though.

CarterKraft said:
I would try the straight setup as described with the yoke turned 90 per the spicer diagram.
I think the blue stuff will be fine, I can't imagine this is going to have a lot of slip like a 4x4.
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I’d think it’ll be ok. Its not like botching a spline out will ruin it as there’s other splines to keep things true.
 
xr-nut do you have a local drive shaft shop to have it balance checked?

The pinion end picture show a big weld build up which is next to stack up of weights, and all of weights on both ends are on same side.

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XtremeJ said:
Bummer man, how frustrating.

As mentioned by many, issues I have experienced

u-joints out of phase, mostly 90 off but oddly once had one 180 off (incorrect marking job)

not enough angle in the joints, added shims once to increase angle and it solved a almost death wobble bad vibration

then to counter that, had a lifted jeep that just plain vibed at all speeds. Was in-between lift heights, so as a temporary solution, took all the angle out the driveshaft except at back of t-case, thinking I would just consider that u-joint as a wearable item. cured the vibes (and odd because rear ujoint was at 0 angle) ran about 9 months in that configuration and really expected vibes when I lifted some more and added the angles back. Not a chirp from the ujoints.

Is this speed specific or speed range specific? Can you stick a gopro to record the joints or carrier bearing.


Hope you get this sorted
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It starts the shaking north of twenty and its bad enough by 40 that we turned back around. thanks, hopefully we get it sorted. I'll be taking a c5 off the front line if not. :laughing:
 
TrailTamer said:
xr-nut do you have a local drive shaft shop to have it balance checked?

The pinion end picture show a big weld build up which is next to stack up of weights, and all of weights on both ends are on same side.
Click to expand...
I reached out to a buddy who wheels with us for info on a local place. its an hour away but I may give him a call if the next few trys dont get it sorted.
 
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