Bebop
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I thought that you HAD to have 2 pilots to fly a black hawk ?
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Day in life of helicopter instructor
- Thread starter WaterH
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They use em for logging a fair bit ...
WaterH
Well-known member
I’m not sure. I was thinking it might be “pop out” floats.
We did that before on an unmanned platform coming back from a long flight offshore. The pilot had me get out, clamp the ground cable on and fuel it up. Was that not right?
The guy probably had a starter going bad and didn't want to risk it, I had a car like that back in high school.
I have hot refueled a thousand times off shore and on, but our company had a special authorization to operate like that written in our “Ops specs”. It was not aloud on land unless it was at one of our bases.
It had two, the chick and the guy in the helmet. In actuality, it probably only requires two pilots under IFR. But I’m not sure. I will say it probably flies IFR all the time.
Donk
Piss Artist Formerly Known As OllieNZ
Reminds me of a similar thing that happened when I was in .mil. We flew into an uncontrolled but fairly popular airport for a fuel stop, standard approach, hover taxied along the taxiway straight to the pumps, no problem right?So yesterday this guy flew in to my airport.
He taxied up to the fuel pump on the wheels. Something this big makes allot of wind (even when taxiing) and we were parked down wind. He hot refueled which I’m not sure about the legality. Then he proceeded to take off from this location. (Not taxi) I couldn’t believe he did that. I have half a mind to report him.
Wrong....... As we were taxiing along the taxi way ran past a load of light aircraft parking...... According to the old boy giving our pilot an earful the downwash from a 4 ton helicopter can easily flip a light aircraft and if he hadn't done such a good job of tying them down hands would've been thrown
.Pilot kept giving me the side eye trying to see if I was done filling up but the gas pump was about as quick as a regular filling station so unfortunately for him his earful lasted a while
.Dunno about civil rules but we had procedures for hot gassing and I've even done it with the heli still in the hover. Being a military design I'd expect the 60 to have similar procedures available.
Everything I know about flying a Blackhawk I've learned in the past few months watching HeavyD's channel on youtubes, so I'm pretty much an expert.
He's make the statement several times that it requires to pilots and that was one of the reasons Cletus got certified on it.
WaterH
Well-known member
If it was owned by a private guy like “Heavy D” , there is probably no rule in place. Of course, the FAA always has the “go to” rule of reckless operation of an aircraft. In this case, it is a company owned aircraft and it would require an “Ops Spec” approved by the FAA. The Ops Spec is a written manual that outlines everything they can do with the aircraft. It is extremely detailed. (And a total PITA) If you break a rule in the Ops Spec, it’s the same as breaking a FAA regulation.
Everything I know about flying a Blackhawk I've learned in the past few months watching HeavyD's channel on youtubes, so I'm pretty much an expert.
If it is certified to require two pilot opperation, it will require it, but most aircraft can be operated single pilot under VFR rules. Under IFR some restrictions on the auto pilot equipment can be relaxed if it requires two pilots. Ex-military aircraft are often operated with a restricted category registration. That also might require two pilots. I think any aircraft heavier than 12,500 must have two pilots if they are being operated commercially. But if it’s just being faried somewhere, probably not. Again a guy like Heavy D might get away with out that.
subybaja
E. Spengler
So yesterday this guy flew in to my airport.
He taxied up to the fuel pump on the wheels. Something this big makes allot of wind (even when taxiing) and we were parked down wind. He hot refueled which I’m not sure about the legality. Then he proceeded to take off from this location. (Not taxi) I couldn’t believe he did that. I have half a mind to report him.
Missoula, MT Helicopter Charters, Tours & Commercial Utility Helicopters
Heli-1 provides expert helicopter services including passenger charters, scenic flights & tours, aerial photo & video and external load.
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Ditchrunner
Red Skull Member
Seemed more appropriate here than meme thread
I figured that was an Evergreen helicopter in that picture not sure if there around anymore I know the airline went under a while back.Missoula, MT Helicopter Charters, Tours & Commercial Utility Helicopters
Heli-1 provides expert helicopter services including passenger charters, scenic flights & tours, aerial photo & video and external load.
Anyhow here’s a story of a guy flying a beech hawker in ifr conditions to see his gf out in Colorado . I think this was a regular trip for a minute or three anyhow when he arrived at the fbo there was a fed waiting to do a ramp check.
As the story goes the fed asked where his co-pilot was the pilot held up his small dog named nitro and said right here .
The story has probably been embellished on a bit some say the pilot had a drink in one had and the little dog in the other anyhow part 91 I do what I want.
WaterH
Well-known member
I guess it’s time for a new story.
I worked for many years flying out to the oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. Oil platforms are pretty easy to land on. The small ones are mounted to the ocean floor and are very stable. The large “floaters” are so f*cking big, they can’t move much even in a storm.
We also use to fly out to work boats or ships. These can be a little tricky, because they can rock a bit and they usually are moving at a slow speed. But none of that compared to a trip I made out to an anchored barge.
I had been working the job for about two years when the boss came up and said there’s a guy on the Crowley barge that just had his mother die. He needs to come ashore for funeral arrangements and such. It was a really shitty weather day and most of the other pilots were grounded. He tells me to go out there and take a look. If it looks too sketchy, come back.
So I fly out there and this very large barge is anchored close to a platform. It had a very large open area on one end to land on. The problem was the deck was heaving up and down. It also was tilting at different angles with the waves. The wind was about 30 knots and there was light rain. First, I tried to come to a hover over the deck. This totally screwed with my mind because I would focus on the deck and try to keep the helicopter motionless compared to it. That was impossible and I quickly would be going out of control. I climbed back up to 500’ and circled around. The barge was on the radio saying it’s not that bad and I need to come back. (Yea, right) I decided to go down to about 20 feet off the side and 20 feet up and come to a hover. Now I was hovering focusing on the water, but watching the barge. It was heaving up and down about 15 feet. Not sure what the pitch angle was, but I garentee it was beyond our company limits.
As I hovered there, I could see that it moved in cycles. It would be going up and down 15 feet and a few seconds later it would be almost motionless. I knew I couldn’t land on it when it was moving big time, so I waited till it was heaving the worse and started counting in my head. One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three and so on. As I remember, it was one thousand fourteen from full heave to full heave. I figured I had from one thousand six to one thousand eight to get on that deck and blades to flat pitch. I sat there for quite a few cycles making sure of my counting.
Finally, I waited till one thousand five and started down fast. I hit the deck a little hard, but not bad and I immediately went to flat pitch. I kept the blades turning at flight speed in case I needed to take off right away. I sat on deck through a few cycles before I radioed they could come out. It was completely nerve racking to sit there rocking around like that. Sometimes it would pitch at an angle that I thought the chopper would slide on the wet deck. But it didn’t.
Eventually, two guys came out and got in. Again, I had to sit there and count for the right time to take off. It was not as bad taking off and I was glad to be away from that thing. I went back to the base and I was done for the day. It was only an hour and 45 minute flight.
Closing
I have a flight bag I keep belted to the seat behind me. It has a change of clothes and some maps and flight gear in it. When I took those guys from the barge, one guy sat in front with me and the “funeral guy” sat in the back. Would you believe that guy stole a mini mag flashlight I had in the bag? He was the only guy that sat back there that day and I had it that morning when I did my preflight.
I worked for many years flying out to the oil platforms in the Gulf of Mexico. Oil platforms are pretty easy to land on. The small ones are mounted to the ocean floor and are very stable. The large “floaters” are so f*cking big, they can’t move much even in a storm.
We also use to fly out to work boats or ships. These can be a little tricky, because they can rock a bit and they usually are moving at a slow speed. But none of that compared to a trip I made out to an anchored barge.
I had been working the job for about two years when the boss came up and said there’s a guy on the Crowley barge that just had his mother die. He needs to come ashore for funeral arrangements and such. It was a really shitty weather day and most of the other pilots were grounded. He tells me to go out there and take a look. If it looks too sketchy, come back.
So I fly out there and this very large barge is anchored close to a platform. It had a very large open area on one end to land on. The problem was the deck was heaving up and down. It also was tilting at different angles with the waves. The wind was about 30 knots and there was light rain. First, I tried to come to a hover over the deck. This totally screwed with my mind because I would focus on the deck and try to keep the helicopter motionless compared to it. That was impossible and I quickly would be going out of control. I climbed back up to 500’ and circled around. The barge was on the radio saying it’s not that bad and I need to come back. (Yea, right) I decided to go down to about 20 feet off the side and 20 feet up and come to a hover. Now I was hovering focusing on the water, but watching the barge. It was heaving up and down about 15 feet. Not sure what the pitch angle was, but I garentee it was beyond our company limits.
As I hovered there, I could see that it moved in cycles. It would be going up and down 15 feet and a few seconds later it would be almost motionless. I knew I couldn’t land on it when it was moving big time, so I waited till it was heaving the worse and started counting in my head. One thousand one, one thousand two, one thousand three and so on. As I remember, it was one thousand fourteen from full heave to full heave. I figured I had from one thousand six to one thousand eight to get on that deck and blades to flat pitch. I sat there for quite a few cycles making sure of my counting.
Finally, I waited till one thousand five and started down fast. I hit the deck a little hard, but not bad and I immediately went to flat pitch. I kept the blades turning at flight speed in case I needed to take off right away. I sat on deck through a few cycles before I radioed they could come out. It was completely nerve racking to sit there rocking around like that. Sometimes it would pitch at an angle that I thought the chopper would slide on the wet deck. But it didn’t.
Eventually, two guys came out and got in. Again, I had to sit there and count for the right time to take off. It was not as bad taking off and I was glad to be away from that thing. I went back to the base and I was done for the day. It was only an hour and 45 minute flight.
Closing
I have a flight bag I keep belted to the seat behind me. It has a change of clothes and some maps and flight gear in it. When I took those guys from the barge, one guy sat in front with me and the “funeral guy” sat in the back. Would you believe that guy stole a mini mag flashlight I had in the bag? He was the only guy that sat back there that day and I had it that morning when I did my preflight.
Wades_76_cj7
RZR guy, NO I am not gay..
what a prick. stole your flashlight when you risked your life so he could go to a funeral. 
2big bronco
Og irate
What does/did it pay to be a helicopter pilot shuffling people back and forth out there?
WaterH
Well-known member
It verys between 60 and 120k. There’s a lot more money if you want to fly overseas. (Like Nigeria) I almost took a job there at 200k, but it was 6 weeks on, 6 weeks off. 6 weeks is just too long of a hitch.
I almost got a gig flying in Trinidad. The company got the contract. They paid shitload of money to get half a dozen pilots legal to fly there. (Me included) And then some kind of corruption went down and they lost the contract. I would not have retired if I got that. It was going to pay about 150k and I would be staying in a resort apartment on the beach with my wife.
Bebop
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Honestly that's less than I expected.
You hear about airline pilots all making 300k+ I figured helicopters would be in the same realm.
Dethmachinefab
Red Skull Member
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So if a bear climbs onto the skid, do you
1 jump out and try and get him to run into the tail rotor.
2 take off and try and knock him off with some sweet stunt pilot moves.
3?
1 jump out and try and get him to run into the tail rotor.
2 take off and try and knock him off with some sweet stunt pilot moves.
3?
WaterH
Well-known member
No, airlines are better. I did know a guy that got a job paying that in China. He did it for about 18 months. He had to quit because of health issues breathing the paluted air. He said the job was cake.
One time I applied for a job on a Mediterranean yacht. This yacht takes rich people around the sea. They needed a helicopter pilot and a nurse. (My wife is a nurse) It would have been cool for us. They would have hired me, but they already had the nurse. It would have been a whole season living on a giant yacht.
The Nigeria job was really cool for a single guy. They work for 6 weeks and then get a plane ticket anywhere in the world. They pay you in any currency and anywhere you direct them to. They don’t report your income to anywhere. My friend that worked there said guys will just go to a different country every time they get off for 6 weeks. When they go back to work they send whatever money they have to the US and report it as their income. My friend has a wife and kids, so he had to report all his income.
Some do, some don’t.
I had a friend in Canada that flew some science guys up on some ice flow. These guys hiked a couple hundred yards away. He sat in the helicopter smoking. He heard a noise and saw a bear near by. White bears are nothing f*ck with. The chopper was shut down, so there really was nothing he could do. He just sat there smoking. He said the bear was just wondering around when the bear got a whiff of smoke. He said it made a sound like it didn’t like it. So my friend lit 4 cigarettes and puffed like crazy. The bear wondered off. It never got closer than 10 feet. Even if it didn’t attack him, it would have been bad if it bent a tail rotor blade or something.
Penetrode Offroad
Red Skull Member
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All they eat is meat. You're meat. They will murder you.
Thanks for posting your experiences.
Squamch
Canadian
2 guys I used to shoot with are pilots for logging outfits. They work 8-10 months a year, and live pretty good lives. Lots of toys, nice house, etc. One got in trouble for going on an ice cream run a couple years back, and they do some really sketchy shit that is against whatever rules there are. Stuff to do with elevation while flying, that kinda stuff. I guess per job you have fuel for X number of flight days. If you get grounded for weather, or do the job in less turns than expected, you get extra fuel, that you use for going to town for beer or ice cream, or up the river to go fishing, etc. There seems to be a huge amount of fucking around with helicopters out side of work hours there
One guy who's kid races in the hare scrambles works 3-4 months a year in south America doing some kinda mountain rescue stuff. Occasionally for fun he does some fire or rescue work here, but mostly just works in south America.
So it seems they do pretty ok
.
Last edited:
WaterH
Well-known member
New story that I had forgotten about.
The Event,
I’m teaching this guy to hover. I like to hover about 2-3 feet off the ground. If you hover higher, it gets more squarely. If you hover lower, you will be hitting the ground all the time. (At least a student will) Because students are afraid of hitting the ground, they have a tendency to drift up into a high hover.
So this guy drifts up to 6-8 feet and I say “lower”. He continues to drift up to 10-12 feet and I repeat “lower”. This guy does not understand English so good and the intercom is kind of scratchy, so I figure he doesn’t get it. I yell “bring us down” while helping push the collective down. It doesnt go down and he is stone faced. I say “I have the controls” as we climb through 20 feet. I still can’t push the collective down and he appears to be frozen. Now I’m kind of pissed and I yell “I have the controls” and he says back “you have the controls”. But the collective still won’t go down.
At this point we are hovering at 30+ feet and still going up. Contrary to Hollywood, you really don’t hover that high unless you have a good reason. I dump the nose and get some airspeed. I’m on the right side and his collective is on his left, so I can’t see it. It won’t go down so I’m thinking he has frozen up on it. I yell “take your hand off the controls”. He holds both hands out where I can see them. The collective won’t go down. Houston, we have a problem.
Once I had a girl drop a camera under the collective and it interfered. I looked at my collective and there was nothing there. I told him to look under his and he said “no”. I said help me push the collective down. He was kind of freaking out and didn’t understand what I wanted. I’m pushing down on the collective with about 40 lbs. of force. It’s only a thin wall steel tube about 2 feet long. I’m scared that it might bend or break if I push any harder. Now we’re do 60 mph at 300 feet and still climbing. I don’t know what’s wrong and I don’t feel like sorting it out any higher.
Circle around and dive at about a 100 mph. The chopper goes go down at that speed. When I get to about 20 feet, I start to slow down. As it slows down, the MFer begins climbing again. This sucks.
The only other thing available to me to control power is the rotor rpm. The governor keeps it at 100%. I turn the governor off and lower rpm some, it will take some power out. The problem with this is you can only go a certain point and the blades will stall. If they stall, there is no speeding them back up. (The drag from stalling is more than the motor can overcome) On top of that, if you slow the rotors down when you are at a high forward speed, the helicopter will start vibrating like crazy.
So circle around again and dive at a 100 till I’m about 4 feet off the ground. As I slow down, I start twisting the throttle lower. I don’t dare go below 75%. I get the bird down to 2 feet and about 20 mph and I roll the throttle off. We skid to a stop.
The aftermath,
I shut it down with the collective stuck up. I tell him to get out and lift the seat so I can see the linkage underneath. As he is getting out, the collective goes down. I’m like WTF. We check out everything and all seems ok. I notice that his seat cushion is velcroed to the seat pan about 1/2” off center. It is off to the collective side, but it doesn’t interfere with it. I have him get in the seat while I watch. He has bad knees and has a difficult time getting in. As he gets in, he twists in a way that makes the seat pan slide over to the collective another 1/2”. It still doesn’t interfere, but when he puts his weight on the cushion, it squeezes the leather and cushion out the side a bit. When I pull the collective up, it just pushes the cushion out of the way. But when I go down with the collective, it wedges the leather and foam between the seat pan and collective.
I asked him how he didn’t see that when I told him to look and he said he didn’t know what I wanted. I moved the cushion to center and had him get in several times. All was fine.
Little details.
The Event,
I’m teaching this guy to hover. I like to hover about 2-3 feet off the ground. If you hover higher, it gets more squarely. If you hover lower, you will be hitting the ground all the time. (At least a student will) Because students are afraid of hitting the ground, they have a tendency to drift up into a high hover.
So this guy drifts up to 6-8 feet and I say “lower”. He continues to drift up to 10-12 feet and I repeat “lower”. This guy does not understand English so good and the intercom is kind of scratchy, so I figure he doesn’t get it. I yell “bring us down” while helping push the collective down. It doesnt go down and he is stone faced. I say “I have the controls” as we climb through 20 feet. I still can’t push the collective down and he appears to be frozen. Now I’m kind of pissed and I yell “I have the controls” and he says back “you have the controls”. But the collective still won’t go down.
At this point we are hovering at 30+ feet and still going up. Contrary to Hollywood, you really don’t hover that high unless you have a good reason. I dump the nose and get some airspeed. I’m on the right side and his collective is on his left, so I can’t see it. It won’t go down so I’m thinking he has frozen up on it. I yell “take your hand off the controls”. He holds both hands out where I can see them. The collective won’t go down. Houston, we have a problem.
Once I had a girl drop a camera under the collective and it interfered. I looked at my collective and there was nothing there. I told him to look under his and he said “no”. I said help me push the collective down. He was kind of freaking out and didn’t understand what I wanted. I’m pushing down on the collective with about 40 lbs. of force. It’s only a thin wall steel tube about 2 feet long. I’m scared that it might bend or break if I push any harder. Now we’re do 60 mph at 300 feet and still climbing. I don’t know what’s wrong and I don’t feel like sorting it out any higher.
Circle around and dive at about a 100 mph. The chopper goes go down at that speed. When I get to about 20 feet, I start to slow down. As it slows down, the MFer begins climbing again. This sucks.
The only other thing available to me to control power is the rotor rpm. The governor keeps it at 100%. I turn the governor off and lower rpm some, it will take some power out. The problem with this is you can only go a certain point and the blades will stall. If they stall, there is no speeding them back up. (The drag from stalling is more than the motor can overcome) On top of that, if you slow the rotors down when you are at a high forward speed, the helicopter will start vibrating like crazy.
So circle around again and dive at a 100 till I’m about 4 feet off the ground. As I slow down, I start twisting the throttle lower. I don’t dare go below 75%. I get the bird down to 2 feet and about 20 mph and I roll the throttle off. We skid to a stop.
The aftermath,
I shut it down with the collective stuck up. I tell him to get out and lift the seat so I can see the linkage underneath. As he is getting out, the collective goes down. I’m like WTF. We check out everything and all seems ok. I notice that his seat cushion is velcroed to the seat pan about 1/2” off center. It is off to the collective side, but it doesn’t interfere with it. I have him get in the seat while I watch. He has bad knees and has a difficult time getting in. As he gets in, he twists in a way that makes the seat pan slide over to the collective another 1/2”. It still doesn’t interfere, but when he puts his weight on the cushion, it squeezes the leather and cushion out the side a bit. When I pull the collective up, it just pushes the cushion out of the way. But when I go down with the collective, it wedges the leather and foam between the seat pan and collective.
I asked him how he didn’t see that when I told him to look and he said he didn’t know what I wanted. I moved the cushion to center and had him get in several times. All was fine.
Little details.
XtremeJ
Wanker
So I retract my statement about the special WaterH auto-rotate then, i guess.
That is something that will likely never be covered in SOP's.
Served on a board of inquiry once, so came to understand why some of the arcane procedures were written, somebody, somewhere, at some point had screwed up badly that we had to have a procedure written.
<raises hand> after some spontaneous air to air "training" in the squadron general flying area, a fire extinguisher that should have been securely strapped down came loose and ejected through the main cockpit perpex window at high speed. Being the pilot I took blame, as I should have noticed if the over center fastening strap was in place. Then some techie in maintenance said the entire bracket had ejected including the fire extinguisher. Was then told I should have noticed the shitty soon to fail mount. Sure enough the BOI made a change to preflight procedures to have hands on the bracket not just eyes on.
Slander
Team no stickys
I always hated hot fueling helicopters, it depends on the FBO if they allow it or now. The ma and pa places I worked at allowed it, then I worked for a big chain and they said no (thank God).
WaterH
Well-known member
I don’t mind most, but the Bolkow 105 is designed to blow exhaust at the fueler. I could get a headache in one fueling. It’s great when you’re the pilot though. Just like going to a full serve gas station. (I’m showing my age)
Slander
Team no stickys
It always seemed to be the fucks with the "J" spout on the bells that wanted to be hot fueled, took FOREVER dribbling fuel in those spouts.
This fucking thing
Kyle
Formerly known as Kyle_T
That’s because bell was dumb and you couldn’t fill them up All the way. But was too cheap for single point.It always seemed to be the fucks with the "J" spout on the bells that wanted to be hot fueled, took FOREVER dribbling fuel in those spouts.
This fucking thing
Roc Doc
2A SNBI
What do you think of the Eurocopter? My former employer had one to commute from his house to the plant. A buddy up North says they're shit, but my employer could literally buy anything he wanted.
WaterH
Well-known member
It always seemed to be the fucks with the "J" spout on the bells that wanted to be hot fueled, took FOREVER dribbling fuel in those spouts.
This fucking thing
I never did one of those. Isn’t that for increased volume tank?
Slander
Team no stickys
I can see why you wouldn't want single point on a helicopter like that, not everywhere is setup for single point fueling.
Yea. Sucks ass, anything over half way of a pull of the fuel nozzle trigger and it's launching right back out of the tank due to air bubbles and having to make that 90* turn.