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Cooling Fan Tech

That 1,000w unit is interesting, crazy power. Also first time seeing plastic shroud flaps on hinges for me versus the rubber ones that can lose flexibility over time.

Good point on things being waterproof or not as well, my 850w Brose JL fan has exposed windings too, just to add another data point.
 
BMW connector is pretty serious 1/2" wide blades.
1000012354.jpg

1000012356.jpg


1000012357.jpg
 
It would be cool to figure out what that connector is, looks like a hearty unit. Just did a little surfing on Broses website, looks like they offer fans up to 1200w. But no real details beyond that.

Electric motors and drives - Products - Brose Fahrzeugteile

Here's one of those BMW Brose fan motors itself, not that it's helpful for much. Just trying to learn more about 'em

09-15 F01 F02 F04 BMW 750I 750LI N63 RADIATOR COOLING FAN MOTOR BROSE Y6763 | eBay

Edit - First time I've actually seen the chassis side power harness, at least we know what it looks like now:

Electric Fan Wiring Harness / Connector 61136987020
1441455bdcb9c13f339948cb1d23ab9b332ae1db2602308720.jpg
 
Last edited:
AgitatedPancake said:
It would be cool to figure out what that connector is, looks like a hearty unit. Just did a little surfing on Broses website, looks like they offer fans up to 1200w. But no real details beyond that.

Electric motors and drives - Products - Brose Fahrzeugteile

Here's one of those BMW Brose fan motors itself, not that it's helpful for much. Just trying to learn more about 'em

09-15 F01 F02 F04 BMW 750I 750LI N63 RADIATOR COOLING FAN MOTOR BROSE Y6763 | eBay

Edit - First time I've actually seen the chassis side power harness, at least we know what it looks like now:

Electric Fan Wiring Harness / Connector 61136987020
1441455bdcb9c13f339948cb1d23ab9b332ae1db2602308720.jpg
Click to expand...
Good find.

I am attempting to bench test my fan and I got nothing when plugged to 12v on RED/BLACK and signal OPEN.
IS that correct, I thought it was to default to 100%:confused:
 
AgitatedPancake said:
It would be cool to figure out what that connector is, looks like a hearty unit. Just did a little surfing on Broses website, looks like they offer fans up to 1200w. But no real details beyond that.

Electric motors and drives - Products - Brose Fahrzeugteile

Here's one of those BMW Brose fan motors itself, not that it's helpful for much. Just trying to learn more about 'em

09-15 F01 F02 F04 BMW 750I 750LI N63 RADIATOR COOLING FAN MOTOR BROSE Y6763 | eBay

Edit - First time I've actually seen the chassis side power harness, at least we know what it looks like now:

Electric Fan Wiring Harness / Connector 61136987020
1441455bdcb9c13f339948cb1d23ab9b332ae1db2602308720.jpg
Click to expand...
Might be these
housing 61136987062
socket 12521436650
or maybe this pigtail 12520144161
 
CarterKraft said:
Fuck me awesome, I thought the big POP when I connected it was the smoke grenade.
Click to expand...

Hmm when you connected the primary 12v and ground? I can't say I had that happen. But yeah these fans (at least my 850w) have direct power to battery at all times AFAIK, so you don't want it running with the ignition off (at least unless something is sending it pwm for some sort of wind down).

Interesting on the part numbers too. Just dropping them into google didn't result in much, but may be enough to start piecing things together

Oh wait, yeah that socket looks good!

NEW BMW 5 GRAN TURISMO F07 SOCKET HOUSING 61136987062 6987062 OEM | eBay
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Hmm when you connected the primary 12v and ground? I can't say I had that happen. But yeah these fans (at least my 850w) have direct power to battery at all times AFAIK, so you don't want it running with the ignition off (at least unless something is sending it pwm for some sort of wind down).

Interesting on the part numbers too. Just dropping them into google didn't result in much, but may be enough to start piecing things together

Oh wait, yeah that socket looks good!

NEW BMW 5 GRAN TURISMO F07 SOCKET HOUSING 61136987062 6987062 OEM | eBay
Click to expand...
I hooked the positive up first and the negative let out a solid pop but didn't appear to have much current.
I won't have the PWM gizmo for a few days so i'll have to wait in suspense....
 
Nice. Not that you should need one, but I grabbed one of these doodads that will generate a PWM signal at whatever frequency and percentage you want. Was kinda handy for testing

Amazon.com
 
AgitatedPancake said:
Nice. Not that you should need one, but I grabbed one of these doodads that will generate a PWM signal at whatever frequency and percentage you want. Was kinda handy for testing

Amazon.com
Click to expand...
Man I was totally gonna buy one of those (cause who doesn't like tools) but I said f it I'll buy the actual thing I need instead.
Hopefully that wasn't a bad idea.

The next lab scope (graphing meter) I buy is gonna have a signal generator in it so I'll have one eventually.
 
For a single 19" fan (centered) on a 26" wide core should the far edges of the shroud be tapered? Is it worth it?

I measured 50% reduction in wind speed on the outer side of the (low wattage) fan I had previously. Is there a way to improve that by tapering thick at fan to thin at the end tank.
 
CarterKraft said:
For a single 19" fan (centered) on a 26" wide core should the far edges of the shroud be tapered? Is it worth it?

I measured 50% reduction in wind speed on the outer side of the (low wattage) fan I had previously. Is there a way to improve that by tapering thick at fan to thin at the end tank.
Click to expand...
It's worth it if you can do it.
I couldn't and it's gonna be fine.
 
CarterKraft said:
For a single 19" fan (centered) on a 26" wide core should the far edges of the shroud be tapered? Is it worth it?

I measured 50% reduction in wind speed on the outer side of the (low wattage) fan I had previously. Is there a way to improve that by tapering thick at fan to thin at the end tank.
Click to expand...
In theory a 10 foot deep box shroud should be pulling nearly even flow across the core as the air is not changing direction or bending much. There will be a dead spot near the fan in the corners causing some turbulence but the radiator will be flowing max.
The more shallow the shroud the less room and the tighter the bend of the air.
1/2” deep shroud is going to be pretty much dead in the corners making that part of the radiator useless.
I would focus on shroud depth and not bother with taper unless it helps clear whatever’s around the outside of the shroud.
Tapering at the expense of shallowing the shroud too thin is not worth it.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
In theory a 10 foot deep box shroud should be pulling nearly even flow across the core as the air is not changing direction or bending much. There will be a dead spot near the fan in the corners causing some turbulence but the radiator will be flowing max.
The more shallow the shroud the less room and the tighter the bend of the air.
1/2” deep shroud is going to be pretty much dead in the corners making that part of the radiator useless.
I would focus on shroud depth and not bother with taper unless it helps clear whatever’s around the outside of the shroud.
Tapering at the expense of shallowing the shroud too thin is not worth it.
Click to expand...
Good point, max thickness superior to other details.

Any rules of thumb, like if you can get it X" thick that's enough.
I realize I'm getting goofy with the questions but id like to think this tech is useful for the thread/board.
 
I have been thinking about running the FPM module by Gene Kook aka Widget Man.
The benefit to the FPM over the Spal smart sensor is user selected temps. Spal has pre set temp ranges and sensors are $250 so if you pick the wrong temp or want to try a different temp you need a new sensor.
The FPM can be set wherever you want high and low. The Module is around $70. It can use any temp sensor.
Problem is the learning curve. The FPM instructions are overwhelming. I hope to dumb this down.
My plan is to use the common Autometer 2258/2259 sensors either with a guage or without. I don’t want to use factory sensors or locations even though I can. That multiplies options and instructions.
I am only using non oem Spal fans which is a matter of toggle switch setting which is fairly straightforward.
Also linked is a good write up on fans and controllers.

Brushless Cooling Fan Conversions

High performance brushless fan retrofit conversions for high performance cars. Brushless cooling fan controllers. PWM.
www.240turbo.com
 
FPM wiring info:
Using an Autometer guage and 2258/2259 sensor-tap sensor wire to TEMP IN on the FPM.

Using an Autometer 2258/2259 sensor stand alone- use a standard 220 ohm 1/4W pullup resistor between the FPM 5VREF and TEMP IN. Sensor wire also connects to TEMP IN.

 
CarterKraft said:
Good point, max thickness superior to other details.

Any rules of thumb, like if you can get it X" thick that's enough.
I realize I'm getting goofy with the questions but id like to think this tech is useful for the thread/board.
Click to expand...
I think I have a 2.5” deep shroud. The drop in fan is around 2” deep and I left .5” in front of the motor/blade. Ideally the gap between motor and core would be 1” to allow air to flow through the core and change direction to get to the open blade area. So 3” deep would be good. If it’s that deep you can taper or chamfer at 45° leaving 1.5” straight from core.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
I have been thinking about running the FPM module by Gene Kook aka Widget Man.
The benefit to the FPM over the Spal smart sensor is user selected temps. Spal has pre set temp ranges and sensors are $250 so if you pick the wrong temp or want to try a different temp you need a new sensor.
The FPM can be set wherever you want high and low. The Module is around $70. It can use any temp sensor.
Problem is the learning curve. The FPM instructions are overwhelming. I hope to dumb this down.
My plan is to use the common Autometer 2258/2259 sensors either with a guage or without. I don’t want to use factory sensors or locations even though I can. That multiplies options and instructions.
I am only using non oem Spal fans which is a matter of toggle switch setting which is fairly straightforward.
Also linked is a good write up on fans and controllers.

Brushless Cooling Fan Conversions

High performance brushless fan retrofit conversions for high performance cars. Brushless cooling fan controllers. PWM.
www.240turbo.com
Click to expand...
You aren't lying with the instructions... I was thinking I would use a decade box to set the temps based on a reference chart I found, not sure how accurate it is for my sensor.

I am using the TX3 standard sensor which I think is a Delphi 12146312 using this data sheet.

 
Pardon my ignoramce, but if you are running a Holley Terminator X, is it necessary or beneficial to run a fan contoller or one of Widget Man's PWM controllers?

For whatever reason, I am having an extremely difficult time wrapping my head around what is absolutely necessary.
 
HYDRODYNAMIC said:
I have been thinking about running the FPM module by Gene Kook aka Widget Man.
The benefit to the FPM over the Spal smart sensor is user selected temps. Spal has pre set temp ranges and sensors are $250 so if you pick the wrong temp or want to try a different temp you need a new sensor.
The FPM can be set wherever you want high and low. The Module is around $70. It can use any temp sensor.
Problem is the learning curve. The FPM instructions are overwhelming. I hope to dumb this down.
My plan is to use the common Autometer 2258/2259 sensors either with a guage or without. I don’t want to use factory sensors or locations even though I can. That multiplies options and instructions.
I am only using non oem Spal fans which is a matter of toggle switch setting which is fairly straightforward.
Also linked is a good write up on fans and controllers.

Brushless Cooling Fan Conversions

High performance brushless fan retrofit conversions for high performance cars. Brushless cooling fan controllers. PWM.
www.240turbo.com
Click to expand...

How about you program the PWM curve in your ECU instead?
 
I have a stock gen4 ECU and no capability to program.
I am planning to run two separate controllers and circuits. One for trans fan, one for engine radiator.
 
The Unknown said:
Pardon my ignoramce, but if you are running a Holley Terminator X, is it necessary or beneficial to run a fan contoller or one of Widget Man's PWM controllers?

For whatever reason, I am having an extremely difficult time wrapping my head around what is absolutely necessary.
Click to expand...

If you have a pwm (-) out to spare on the ECU then that is the simplest way to have variable speed control. Then you are not adding additional failure points aside from what it already took to run the car, if the engine ECU is not working you don't need to worry about cooling.

If you don't have enough inputs to reference temperatures and pressures of what you want to cool with that fan you may want to use a stand alone controller or sensor setup.

When you run from the ECU you can setup a non linear ramp based on the exact temperatures you want as well. This would be something that you adjust after it is all running to understanding how little of fan you can get away with to optimize noise and load on the electrical system.
 
Managed to get my setup working.



Yeah. Well, it certainly does suck.

That’s a C7 Z06 fan run by this little feller:

www.ebay.com

VARIABLE PWM FAN CONTROL works with ANY sensor, compare to Lingenfelter VSFM-002 | eBay

It also has special selections for driving Solid State Relays (SSR's) to vary DC fans with no fuss. Easy 2-button programming makes setting the temperature span a snap, just run the engine and press one button at your "turn on" setpoint, another button at your "full speed" setpoint.
www.ebay.com

Super easy to set up, works very well.
 
Satan's_Minion said:
When you run from the ECU you can setup a non linear ramp based on the exact temperatures you want as well. This would be something that you adjust after it is all running to understanding how little of fan you can get away with to optimize noise and load on the electrical system.
Click to expand...
You can even program stuff like different fan responses based on any combination of parameters you want (IE different ramp curve in low range, with A/C on or off, yada yada).
An external controller is very redundant and IMO pretty limiting.

If you have a Terminator X and are out of I/O, this gizmo is VERY worth it :

Holley EFI 554-166 Holley EFI CAN Input/Output Module - Without Harness

The Holley EFI CAN Input/Output Module can be added to Holley EFI HP, Dominator, Terminator X and Terminator X Max EFI installation. This CAN module will add eight inputs and eight outputs to the system, which can be used to control additional accessories, or provide critical sensor inputs...
www.holley.com www.holley.com

And it adds thermistor inputs which is something the base TermX is missing (I know you can fool it).

HYDRODYNAMIC said:
I have a stock gen4 ECU and no capability to program.
I am planning to run two separate controllers and circuits. One for trans fan, one for engine radiator.
Click to expand...
I'm sure you could find someone on the board or locally to help you with the programming.
It's such a simple and elegant solution compared to the external controler.
 
Bebop said:
You can even program stuff like different fan responses based on any combination of parameters you want (IE different ramp curve in low range, with A/C on or off, yada yada).
An external controller is very redundant and IMO pretty limiting.

If you have a Terminator X and are out of I/O, this gizmo is VERY worth it :

Holley EFI 554-166 Holley EFI CAN Input/Output Module - Without Harness

The Holley EFI CAN Input/Output Module can be added to Holley EFI HP, Dominator, Terminator X and Terminator X Max EFI installation. This CAN module will add eight inputs and eight outputs to the system, which can be used to control additional accessories, or provide critical sensor inputs...
www.holley.com www.holley.com

And it adds thermistor inputs which is something the base TermX is missing (I know you can fool it).


I'm sure you could find someone on the board or locally to help you with the programming.
It's such a simple and elegant solution compared to the external controler.
Click to expand...
Agree. Gen IV has it all built in based off of sensors that will immediately put it in limp mode if they fail.

That being said, this external controller I’m using (gen III ECM for me, so no dice) does have adjustable ramps based off of override and is pretty seamless. The LED displays with color coding is nice to quickly figure out WTF happened, where ECM will need a laptop to troubleshoot (granted, once set, you shouldn’t need to dick with it).
 
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