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Rockwood said:
Pardon my confusion, LOL. To me, hot is overheating.

Also: that shroud near the transfer case: is it open on the bottom?
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Yes, it possible that I really don’t have any problem because I’ve not really had an actual issue.

The shroud is not open. All air must go through the rad.

mobil1syn said:
it has come out that he is worried about the intercooler temps, not the engine temps. based on the last few posts his IC cooler is dreadfully undersized.
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Yes, this is my worry. I might be worrying about nothing. Guys on the diesel swap site say your not going to melt pistons unless you are rolling coal. No one would describe my truck as rolling coal. I do have cruise EGTs of 1000 and can hit 1400 fairly easy. I will back out of the pedal at that point. Not really an issue in daily driving, but if I’m towing, I cruise in the 1200 range. That doesn’t leave much room to excellerate or even hold speed on a hill.

Weasel said:
Ah I don't think your getting any air through that duct either. Air usually flows down through the engine bay to the bottom of the rig, like under the skid plate. Seems like your flow route is a higher pressure zone where that duct is and minimal air flow is going through there.

And Id says 4.5 is way to small.
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I think you need to look at the truck some more. You can’t use words like “usually” when talking about a completely different configuration. I’m not saying you are wrong. Like Rockwood said Air does some weird stuff. But 60 mph air going through that duct is plenty for that rad. Of course, as mentioned above, it’s very possible that rad is just not big enough.
 
Rockwood said:
The intercooler is "cooled" by the radiator? LOL. Compressor outlet temps are usually 40-100* above ambient (depending on load/boost)... That means unless it's 100* out, it's getting heated until you completely wood it. At 200*F coolant temps, the air exiting the radiator is ~180*F on a good radiator setup.

Even when outlet temps are maxed (250*?), deltaP is so low, I doubt IATs are dropping much... Better off just not running it.

Why not add a water to air exchanger for the intercooler loop?
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I think you need to go to my build thread. Much of what you are talking about is discussed and actually tested there. I really only posed spacific questions here. I didn’t plan on have a whole discussion on my cooling system here.
 
WaterH said:
I think you need to look at the truck some more. You can’t use words like “usually” when talking about a completely different configuration. I’m not saying you are wrong. Like Rockwood said Air does some weird stuff. But 60 mph air going through that duct is plenty for that rad. Of course, as mentioned above, it’s very possible that rad is just not big enough.
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Air doesn't care what you build it flows from high to low zones. You have a giant flat front and a large flat space under the rig. Anything under the rig is going to be lower pressure then anything jammed up inside of the frame. You don't have a crap load of complicated air directional surfaces. But that's my opinion, I don't have the over heating issue but that's what I'd work on.

Who's the aero guy on here?
 
WaterH said:
I think you need to go to my build thread. Much of what you are talking about is discussed and actually tested there. I really only posed spacific questions here. I didn’t plan on have a whole discussion on my cooling system here.
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No thanks. It's 29 pages all over the place.

Weasel said:
Air doesn't care what you build it flows from high to low zones. You have a giant flat front and a large flat space under the rig. Anything under the rig is going to be lower pressure then anything jammed up inside of the frame. You don't have a crap load of complicated air directional surfaces. But that's my opinion, I don't have the over heating issue but that's what I'd work on.

Who's the aero guy on here?
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Agree, and it depends on where it's at. Pretty picture to help visualize

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As you say: under the nose is likely lower pressure/higher speed. Areas under the body where the air can expand can be higher pressure.

But, I doubt anything is contoured to prevent separation, so it's all a turbulent mess under there.
 
I am in the market for a new radiator/shroud/brushless fan combo.

it would need to fit in the stock TJ location, but for a 6.0 application.

any recommendations?
 
Tcdawg said:
I am in the market for a new radiator/shroud/brushless fan combo.

it would need to fit in the stock TJ location, but for a 6.0 application.

any recommendations?
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The Camaro fan keeps my 6.0 nice and cool. Mounts to a YJ/TJ radiator with minimal trimming.

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Did we ever decide that Delta PAG was snake oil just wrong application for offroad?

They are pretty common with the drag and drive guys and they seem to have solved the overheating problem for them.
They also do have giant (compared to OEM) radiators.
I don't have Delta PAG money but I am going to try and copy the idea in my pro street car, giant radiator, electric pump and brushless fan.
 
CarterKraft said:
Did we ever decide that Delta PAG was snake oil just wrong application for offroad?

They are pretty common with the drag and drive guys and they seem to have solved the overheating problem for them.
They also do have giant (compared to OEM) radiators.
I don't have Delta PAG money but I am going to try and copy the idea in my pro street car, giant radiator, electric pump and brushless fan.
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I may be off base here, but from what I gleaned the point he focused in in most of his posts - the efficiency he touted seemed to be how much cooling his solutions could do per electricity consumed (thin radiator core, thin fan blades etc). But that is a different metric with different answers than asking how much cooling capacity can you fit in a limited space. Personally, I much prefer a higher amperage fan with bigger blades that can pull more vacuum through a thicker radiator stack. But power isn't a concern in my scenario, I've got plenty to spare so it's an easy answer. Might not be the same for other vehicles with no/small alternators
 
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AgitatedPancake said:
I may be off base here, but from what I gleaned the point he focused in in most of his posts - the efficiency he touted seemed to be how much cooling his solutions could do per electricity consumed (thin radiator core, thin fan blades etc). But that is a different metric with different answers than asking how much cooling capacity can you fit in a limited space. Personally, I much prefer a higher amperage fan with bigger blades that can pull more vacuum through a thicker radiator stack. But power isn't a concern in my scenario, I've got plenty to spare so it's an easy answer. Might not be the same for other vehicles with no/small alternators
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It is interesting that those Delta PAG radiators in the cars I saw have thick cores but maybe the tube spacing and fin density is not as dense.

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CarterKraft said:
It is interesting that those Delta PAG radiators in the cars I saw have thick cores but maybe the tube spacing and fin density is not as dense.
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Agreed on that, and it seemed contradictory to some of his discussions here. And yeah, makes you wonder how many CFM those fans were actually flowing in those scenarios with thick cores
 
What I got out of his discussion was the cores past #1 did not remove much more heat. More air moving across the first core did. Less cores, less restriction, high air flow cools better.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
I gleaned the point he focused in in most of his posts - the efficiency he touted seemed to be how much cooling his solutions could do per electricity consumed.
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That’s what I got too. He comes off like a thicker core won’t cool anymore. That is BS, but it is possible that a bigger thin core could do the same job for less electricity.

One of the issues I see is his fans are sized for his thin core radiator. So if you were to put a oil cooler, inter cooler, condenser in front, there’s Probably an issue.
 
AgitatedPancake said:
I may be off base here, but from what I gleaned the point he focused in in most of his posts - the efficiency he touted seemed to be how much cooling his solutions could do per electricity consumed (thin radiator core, thin fan blades etc). But that is a different metric with different answers than asking how much cooling capacity can you fit in a limited space. Personally, I much prefer a higher amperage fan with bigger blades that can pull more vacuum through a thicker radiator stack. But power isn't a concern in my scenario, I've got plenty to spare so it's an easy answer. Might not be the same for other vehicles with no/small alternators
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Drag/drive is an easy market to improve on as well. No one (that I’m aware of) in road racing or offroad racing is using them because they’ve already been through all of this and know it won’t work.

Drag/drive guys used to be drag racers that generally trailered to the track, so cooling was and still is more about minimum requirements and weight than it is about making sure it’s always cool. Drag racer will maybe tow a light trailer with a light car (4500lbs combined?) and a loose converter in rush hour. Not awesome, but nowhere near climbing a trail at 4mph in a 5,000lb trail pig for an hour straight at high altitude and temps (desert SW), possibly with AC on, all shoved into a trail rig’s hilariously small nose. I’m sure a lot of us in the SW have had that non-technical climb to the trailhead at 5,000’+ and 85-90*+ where you’re wondering if you need to stop and cool for a bit.

Exactly NONE of us will be able to run the kind of surface area needed to take advantage of the efficiency, which is fine.

That being said, even the O O O O’Reilly $30 special would likely keep a car cool with those monster radiators. Yeah yeah, 4,000hp. They’re using it for 6-7 seconds. Just driving between routes, they’re cruising at 50-55mph and babying it.
 
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Rockwood said:
Drag/drive is an easy market to improve on as well. No one (that I’m aware of) in road racing or offroad racing is using them because they’ve already been through all of this and know it won’t work.

Drag/drive guys used to be drag racers that generally trailered to the track, so cooling was and still is more about minimum requirements and weight than it is about making sure it’s always cool. Drag racer will maybe tow a light trailer with a light car (4500lbs combined?) and a loose converter in rush hour. Not awesome, but nowhere near climbing a trail at 4mph in a 5,000lb trail pig for an hour straight at high altitude and temps (desert SW), possibly with AC on, all shoved into a trail rig’s hilariously small nose. I’m sure a lot of us in the SW have had that non-technical climb to the trailhead at 5,000’+ and 85-90*+ where you’re wondering if you need to stop and cool for a bit.

Exactly NONE of us will be able to run the kind of surface area needed to take advantage of the efficiency, which is fine.

That being said, even the O O O O’Reilly $30 special would likely keep a car cool with those monster radiators. Yeah yeah, 4,000hp. They’re using it for 6-7 seconds. Just driving between routes, they’re cruising at 50-55mph and babying it.
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I agree with what you are saying but I also understand that there isn't a racer anywhere that would use a giant radiator just cause.
These guys could get free shit from anyone, no need to be saddled with inferior results if there was a better solution.

I still think I will be money ahead for my street/strip car having the biggest core I can get with out much trouble.
 
This situation came up at work recently and we have scratched our heads a little.

HYDRODYNAMIC

Machine has 8-24v cooling fans on it. Each pair of fans is fused with a 50 amp fuse and each pair of fuses is fused with a 100 amp fuse.
We have a machine that blew the 100 amp fuse. We replaced the fuse and did a override test to command the fans to 100% speed.
At 100% we measured 140 amps on each 100 amp circuit with a amp clamp.
Each fan measured 35 amps x 4 = 140 amps.
The question is do you think there is an issue when measuring this motor current with a amp clamp?

There is a back story where the early versions of this machine had 10x 19a (456w) draw fans and was replaced with 8 of a different fan that CAT can or will not give us the specs of. That machine didn't have the 50 amp fuses but was still fed with 100 amp circuits.
I wondered if they reduced the fan count and forgot to upsize the current rating of the fuse/cables...



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Thatg9659 said:
Decided on a pump yet?

I’m thinking 2 of these on a ferd modular.

BMW Electric Water Pump - Pierburg 11517586925

BMW Electric Water Pump - Pierburg 11517586925
www.fcpeuro.com
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I have one of those already and the CSR pump that is already on it. Not exactly sure what to do with them.
I gutted the pierberg controller and put a RC 3 phase motor controller on it and wholy O fuck does it pump some water.
That little controller isn't up to the task... After a 15 seconds or so it overheats and derates the output pretty seriously.
I was going to use this as a portable project for boondocking but I have been holding on to the pump just for putting it on this car.


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CarterKraft said:
I agree with what you are saying but I also understand that there isn't a racer anywhere that would use a giant radiator just cause.
These guys could get free shit from anyone, no need to be saddled with inferior results if there was a better solution.

I still think I will be money ahead for my street/strip car having the biggest core I can get with out much trouble.
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I'm sure those SMX engines aren't super efficient for cooling (what 6,000hp engine is?), and stop/go would be an issue since the converter is slipping all over.

But I also think those Delta PAG radiators take advantage of street car dimensions. None of us could run a radiator with that surface area without squishing it on the first rock on the trail. The drag/drive use-case is: light weight, efficient cooling with perhaps a less powerful charging system. Offroad use case is "this shit will never overheat no matter what", tough as nails, and has to package inside a tiny nose with the 17 other coolers. Oh, and half-clogged by the end of day 1. :flipoff2:
 
Rockwood said:
I'm sure those SMX engines aren't super efficient for cooling (what 6,000hp engine is?), and stop/go would be an issue since the converter is slipping all over.

But I also think those Delta PAG radiators take advantage of street car dimensions. None of us could run a radiator with that surface area without squishing it on the first rock on the trail. The drag/drive use-case is: light weight, efficient cooling with perhaps a less powerful charging system. Offroad use case is "this shit will never overheat no matter what", tough as nails, and has to package inside a tiny nose with the 17 other coolers. Oh, and half-clogged by the end of day 1. :flipoff2:
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Yeah for sure I understand that but I don't have one of those rock crashers :laughing:

I did work on some equipment that had a really shitty radiator constraint, they mechanical fans and the overdrive ratio was so bad they would wear out crankshaft and fan drive pulleys in a few years.
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These high HP fans should really help you guys out.
But are we smart enough to know exactly how to use them?
Does water pump flow and lower restriction radiator equal more cooling for less watts?
Now that we have both brushless fans and pumps what is the most effective way to use them.
Do we even measure pump flow or know what is good or bad?
 
arse_sidewards said:
People call me a cheapskate when I do that shit. :laughing:
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I assume there is some rule of thumb for max flow for heat rejection but it's a balance of air flow over the core and water flow through engine and radiator.

In my example the SBC CSR pump is rated at 35-37 gpm is that enough? Too much?
 
CarterKraft said:
I assume there is some rule of thumb for max flow for heat rejection but it's a balance of air flow over the core and water flow through engine and radiator.
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The way I see it as long as you have "enough" flow it doesn't matter whether you flow fast or slow, it's the heat rejection of the rest of the system that determines if you're good to go.

That said, my gut reaction is to say that a high flow system with water rocketing through the radiator will cool better than an equivalent lower flow system because you'll have less opportunity for hot spots.


CarterKraft said:
In my example the SBC CSR pump is rated at 35-37 gpm is that enough? Too much?
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Raw water pumps are on the order of half that and they have no problem staying cool while sucking 85deg "Florida in July" lake water.
 
All I found is that the pumps don’t like to run near max output for very long. Oversized under used in the stock application for hopes of longevity.
 
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