coil spring vs coil over Dana 60

[Tiha]

Anyone have any experience?
I have had this idea nagging me for a long time. Having a hard time committing.

Currently 1995 F350 Diesel 4x4. Reverse shackle but stock, oem springs. It is also has custom 4" lift. It rides okay, I think it rides really well for what it is.

But I need to lower it back down. Currently have to let air out of the tires to get it in and out of my garage, plus I am getting older, and my wife is short.

Rather than just lowering it, I have had this curiosity of a coil spring or coil over conversion for years. Currently I think it rides as nice as my 2014 super duty with 180K miles on it.
But lowering it, changing tires will probably change that. I am not sure I would gain much by just going with coil springs, but I could be wrong?

Been fascinated with carrick customs kit. I should be able to stay close to stock height. But it is spendy. Major fab work, as in welding on the axle.

Carrick Customs

Or there is kits like the Madd Dog customs, much cheaper but I don't think I can keep near stock height.

Madd Dog

Or, considering the increasing value of pristine trucks in that era, do I want to leave it closer to stock?

Are there other options? I know the '05 swap is cheap and highly recommended but Not sure I can keep the truck low enough, nor do I really want to swap axles after all the work I have already done.

this is a truck I still plan on keeping. I drive it all over the country now and plan on towing a camper with it into retirement. But at the same time I don't want to completely destroy the value by doing something not easily undone.

 

[posford]

Sky shackle 2" reversal with the springs you have?

92-97 F-250/350 Shackle Reversal Kits (OBS Spring)

Description: -Provides much better ride than stock by moving shackle to rear of spring.Eliminates the weak front shackle design.-2" will level a factory F-350 Please review the instructions under the installation section for all kits listed in this section. For other parts needed, please review...

www.skysoffroaddesign.com

 

[Tiha]

Sky shackle 2" reversal with the springs you have?

92-97 F-250/350 Shackle Reversal Kits (OBS Spring)

Description: -Provides much better ride than stock by moving shackle to rear of spring.Eliminates the weak front shackle design.-2" will level a factory F-350 Please review the instructions under the installation section for all kits listed in this section. For other parts needed, please review...

www.skysoffroaddesign.com

I already have the shackle reversal. I can certainly lower it keeping the setup I have but I think I have reached the best ride I can with this setup.

Just wondering if there was something better out there.

 

[posford]

I gotcha, wasn't sure if you were aware of a lower shackle reversal setup.

Factory 2wd coil buckets, and radius arms doesn't seem like it would be that much fab work. You already have a track bar. Put the 79 F150 style wedge on the axle and run factory 79 arms, maybe plate them. Coil mounts to top of the radius arm.

 

[Tiha]

What really is the difference here?

The coil spring vs the coil over shock right?

Can one be made to work as well as the other? Or are they just 2 different animals all together?

 

[Provience]

Packaging is the only practical difference

 

[Gumbybronco]

And cost…

 

[Tiha]

Looking closer at the Madd Dogg kit. I see the link arms are ball socket on one end, but the other is a bushing.

Shouldn't they both be ball sockets?

is there a reason for this? Or just cost?

Seems to me when looking for the best ride you want the freest suspension possible and those link arms are kind of a shortcut.

 

[Provience]

Bushings isolate a bunch of vibration, they are superior for road going vehicles

 

[Tiha]

Bushings isolate a bunch of vibration, they are superior for road going vehicles

Ah, that makes sense.

But then why are not both ends bushings. LOL I guess then you would have What Ford did on the '05 and newer stuff.

The whole 4 link thing is still kind of new to me. Never given it much thought, but the more I look at that kit, there is more stuff I don't like about it.

It is really the only option I can see out there. Starting to wonder if I should build my own.

More stuff to ponder I guess. Like I said this has been running around in my head a few years.

 

[TrailTamer]

Have you had your F350 at its stock height, ever?

I used to wrench on my friend's 1992 or 1993 F350 crew cab long bed 4x4 diesel 5 speed. I was always pleased on how it rode on my test drives. 100% stock suspension wise including bottom of the barrel no name brand yellow shocks, probably can ride even better with premium name brand shocks.

I'll try to stay with leaf springs. It's a proven technology and can be made to ride very nice. Although full axle swap transplanting radius arm from ~2013 and newer Super Duties will be way to go to get their suspension and massive brakes (95 F350 front brake is 13" and thin at 1.25" vs 2013 F250/350 at over 14" and like 1.5" thick). More stopping power for cross country RVing may be very appreciated... I believe 99-04 ford super duties, including Ecoline vans, can be axle swapped/upgraded from 05-up by to simply bolt/weld their frame side brackets on. Not sure about pre-super duty.

my $0.02

 

[Tiha]

Have you had your F350 at its stock height, ever?

Yep I did, drove it all over the country that way. I was always told my F350 rode better than most. But that has been almost 15 years since it was stock height.
I am still running the OEM springs. I had made my own RSK before it was a thing using original springs. I made custom rear spring hangers to stay with OEM springs instead of adding blocks or an add a leaf. The whole Idea was to lift it without ruining the ride it had and I came pretty close.

But what we all didn't realize at the time is an RSK is a waste of time on a flat spring. Seems pretty obvious now. Like Duh.

So that is the debate I have. All the rubber in this thing is getting pretty worn out. I don't just need to lower it, I would need springs, or at least spring bushings. And who's to say new springs won't kill the good ride I had. Or like the front shackle, are the replacements still good as OEM today? New stock height Sway bar links.
In my experience replacement parts today are garbage.

My rear axle is stock 10.25 sterling, but I have the rear brakes from an E series van on there with E-brake. So dual piston calipers that are actually a little bigger than the newer SD axles.

Couple that with hydroboost and 6.0 PS pump. It stops and turns as good as any newer truck. If I towed more, sure bigger brakes would be nice but not worth gutting the system I already have so much time into.

Have actually collected most of the parts to make it all stock again over the years. But the last thing is springs, what to do with springs.

Just trying to make the best decision knowing how much work I have to do one way or the other and part of the reason a bolt on kit is more lucrative than something welded to the axle. What if I hate it?

It is hard to get past reading over and over guys doing the Coil swap and saying it was the best thing ever.

Really like the carrick customs setup. But not sure I see the advantage of $5800 over $2200 Madd Dogg setup.

 

[welndmn]

What really is the difference here?

The coil spring vs the coil over shock right?

Can one be made to work as well as the other? Or are they just 2 different animals all together?

Tune-ability. There are probably only a hand full of different super duty coil spring rates, there are 1,000 of coil springs for coilovers with dual rates to dial in the ride just perfect for your driving style.

 

[TrailTamer]

I put 95-97 F350 outers on my 97 Ram 2500. F350 rotors are 13” and 1.25” thick while Ram 2500 rotors are 12.5” and 1.5” thick. Also F350’s calipers have smaller total piston surface area vs Ram 2500’s despite its a single piston, although very small difference. I almost right away had issues with F350 rotors. The rotor thickness is not enough, prone to overheat and warp when towing through grades. I had to replace rotors mid trip once because it was so bad it’s like having death wobble anytime I touched the brake pedal. Just a head up! I’d hate if you find that out on your RV trips somewhere someday.

Although don’t fix it if it ain’t broken.

 

[reptillikus]

Are there other options? I know the '05 swap is cheap and highly recommended but Not sure I can keep the truck low enough, nor do I really want to swap axles after all the work I have already done.

this is a truck I still plan on keeping. I drive it all over the country now and plan on towing a camper with it into retirement. But at the same time I don't want to completely destroy the value by doing something not easily undone.

I've done a shackle reversal on 2 trucks now using Superduty leafs, and they ride way better than with the OBS leafs.

 

[posford]

I reread some of the thread and the bolt on brackets for the axle side is interesting. Seems like an inherent weakness to the setup?

 

[Tiha]

I reread some of the thread and the bolt on brackets for the axle side is interesting. Seems like an inherent weakness to the setup?

That is what I thought. That seems like a lot of stress on that one side of the axle "cap"

Beyond that, the coil buckets and shock mounts seem a little crude.

granted, there isn't much out there for options so nice to have one. But I probably would do it a little differently. And maybe I will.

Like I said this is just something that has been rattling around for a few years. Now finally to the point I am trying to learn more about it.

 

[Tiha]

I've done a shackle reversal on 2 trucks now using Superduty leafs, and they ride way better than with the OBS leafs.

Yep that is the norm. I don't want the additional height though. That is what keeps me from swapping. Last I checked 2.5" was the lowest you could get, but most guys reported at least 3.5" lift. That puts me right back where I am at.

The SD springs I believe are the same length from the center pin to front and back eyelets, where the OBS springs are not. That right there is a big difference let alone spring rate.

Like trail tamer said earlier. Maybe I should just put it back OEM and see how I like it. Then look at modifying the front end later. I have most of the parts I just need to pick springs. Or try to replace the spring bushings.

stock was 285 tires. I am running 305 on there now. Not much taller but a lot wider. Maybe that will make a difference too.

 

[reptillikus]

I have the PMF 2.25" kit with X codes, got me closer to 3.5" on my SASed F250. Swapping to V codes this spring so I can let you know then how much it goes down, but it should be closer to that magical 2.25".

The x code is a much higher spring rate than the stock 96 F350 diesel leaf I was running, and still rode better. The U or V should ride like a caddy.

My wife's 351 powered bronco has the 2" SD S/R kit from Sky paired with U codes and it's exactly 4" lift for a bronco, which should be more like 1-2" on an F350. It's also a super plush ride.