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Buggy Build Rear Steer Stupidity Check

I thought you were on a budget, none of that junk above is a cheap route. Well rear steer is not cheap but that just ups the expense level.

Buddy is happy with his D70 rear steer with the Ford stuff. He runs ball joint eliminators. The only big expanse is he went with the big RCV shafts.

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I was looking on the Branik website the other day. It appears that when you step into custom axles the inner shafts are the same price.
 
Weasel said:
I thought you were on a budget, none of that junk above is a cheap route. Well rear steer is not cheap but that just ups the expense level.

Buddy is happy with his D70 rear steer with the Ford stuff. He runs ball joint eliminators. The only big expanse is he went with the big RCV shafts.

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That is a nice unit
 
Bebop said:
That is a nice unit
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Well it was lol. He had it repainted and new sides. Jason repainted the graphics on the sides and they were crazy in person. Lots of hours in taping and painting.

But then buddy didn't take off his panels and they got dinked so it doesn't look so nice now.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
Heck, at that point I'd just use some low pinion toy 8" and get a better air locker out of the deal. I wonder how heavy the portal box stuff is vs SD05+ parts?
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I dunno. The JHF portal boxes I have are heavy AF...but the Wilwood brakes probably save a ton over the SD05+ stuff. Might be a wash....
 
Bebop said:
put wilwood brakes on a 05+ :homer:
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I think the problem with all this is cost. The OP isn't trying to break the bank....portals and wilwoods aren't cheap. LP9s flipped aren't crazy expensive if you are willing to build rear engine.
 
Wilwoods are $130 to 200/piece per calipers.
If you can use a lathe and cut some brackets you can turn the stock rotors down and make the mounts.

Hardly expensive.

Don't do portals I was joking.
 
Bebop said:
Wilwoods are $130 to 200/piece per calipers.
If you can use a lathe and cut some brackets you can turn the stock rotors down and make the mounts.

Hardly expensive.

Don't do portals I was joking.
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I don't have lathe/mill access...so I'm stuck paying over a grand for Willwood KP stuff. I'd imagine SD05+ stuff is about the same, but I could be totally wrong on that. I'm not speaking from experience on that topic.
 
It's all heavish. It's down low so who cares? What's wrong with the Ford brake setup.

I tend to spend way to much time fiddling with stuff to shave a few pounds when I should just leave it along and have more time to wheel.
 
Sean said:
I don't have lathe/mill access...so I'm stuck paying over a grand for Willwood KP stuff. I'd imagine SD05+ stuff is about the same, but I could be totally wrong on that. I'm not speaking from experience on that topic.
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I'm pretty sure that you could drop 2 rotors at a local machine shop with a bottle of Jack and pick them back at the end of the day.
 
Yeah, not trying to break the bank. I think about weight if I can afford to remove it. I do want to attempt to drive fast. I live in california and JV is a fun place! like the idea of using stock brake components, but they are probably overkill for a 4klbs buggy. Current buggy uses gm 1/2ton calipers which seem to work just fine and are dirty dirt cheap. I like the idea of machining down factory rotors. I have a lathe and access to a mill. Need to figure out figure out what the best path is as to where to put $$$.
 
Weasel said:
It's all heavish. It's down low so who cares? What's wrong with the Ford brake setup.

I tend to spend way to much time fiddling with stuff to shave a few pounds when I should just leave it along and have more time to wheel.
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I tend to agree...which is why I did the ECGS big brake kit for my KP Chevy 60 rather than Willwood (that, and cost). I haven't priced what it's going to cost to turn down the hub bodies, but I'm betting here in Phoenix it'll be quite a bit more than a bottle of Jack. :(
 
tough to see much different of an option than an e350 60 rear. keep gear sets the same and 3.5 tubes with 99-04 outers it's just to dang simple.

i have the chev 60 front and e350 steer in the back. cut and sold all the kingpin stuff and it'll basically paid for most of the superduty parts for both axles
 
I built my own rotors and hats and they work killer with solid axle Toyota calipers. I ended up welding the metals sleeves to the rotor and front face plate. Or just buy branik hats and rotors and add the 4 piston toyota caliper.
 

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RTH said:
tough to see much different of an option than an e350 60 rear. keep gear sets the same and 3.5 tubes with 99-04 outers it's just to dang simple.

i have the chev 60 front and e350 steer in the back. cut and sold all the kingpin stuff and it'll basically paid for most of the superduty parts for both axles
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Any regrets at all going with the super 60?
I have a 70HD that i was going to build into my steering axle. I have an E350 60 under my truck that needs a rebuild. My wheelbase is stoopid long at 153" and rear steer is in my plans.
 
ANGRYBLACK said:
Any regrets at all going with the super 60?
I have a 70HD that i was going to build into my steering axle. I have an E350 60 under my truck that needs a rebuild. My wheelbase is stoopid long at 153" and rear steer is in my plans.
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with work this year i have no real run time other then ripping around our property a handful of times. money regrets i have none with the setup. i paid $50 for the e350 axle and the superduty parts were nearly free once i parted with an the kingpin stuff. i waited for black Friday sales for allot of the other parts... steering stuff, u joints, 7.17s, rebuild kits, zip locker, seals it seals and whatever else. towards the end i wanted fancy things so did branik shafts and fancy brakes but everything else was sales and used when i could.

unless you're having issues with the lp60 gear set/carriers i would recommend going the e350 axle for your setup.

1480 and 4340 is fine for most people but i definitely understand the other routes people go. there's a ton of options out there now and it's all just money.
 
RTH said:
with work this year i have no real run time other then ripping around our property a handful of times. money regrets i have none with the setup. i paid $50 for the e350 axle and the superduty parts were nearly free once i parted with an the kingpin stuff. i waited for black Friday sales for allot of the other parts... steering stuff, u joints, 7.17s, rebuild kits, zip locker, seals it seals and whatever else. towards the end i wanted fancy things so did branik shafts and fancy brakes but everything else was sales and used when i could.

unless you're having issues with the lp60 gear set/carriers i would recommend going the e350 axle for your setup.

1480 and 4340 is fine for most people but i definitely understand the other routes people go. there's a ton of options out there now and it's all just money.
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I know you said you didn't have any run time on it yet, but how well do you think the 7.17s will hold up?

My previous idea last month was to ditch my current drivetrain and find an old S10 blazer for $600. Thats an engine, trans, harness and computer all together. Then use the stock D300 I have and put 7.17s in the LP axles I have. Crawl ratio isn't great, but not bad at 57-1, and in theory it pulls 3k rpms at 70 in high range with 40s. However I'm not sure a stock 300 would survive front digs, although the 7.17s would help that a bit, and I'm unsure of 7.17 gear longevity. Talking with friends, they seem to think its not ideal and I am realizing I do a lot of things that aren't ideal in the name of saving a buck.

Then I got on the idea of using a LP9" instead and ditching everything I own. But, yeah it all adds up.
 
Who was the guy using jana 76 7.17s front and rear in a buggy racing koh? Yellow buggy with a 3.8 v6 iirc?

I know a handful of guys who ran 6.17s and 7.17s with pretty good success. One guy was a heavy buggy on 49 iroks, tbi treefiddy, 60/70,l and 6.17s never broke them. Same guy ended up with a light buggy with 60s f&r, 5.3 and 7.17s, 47s in rocks and 54s for snow. he couldn't keep gears in the rear, went to 5.xx and still couldn't. It had a 40 spline kit in it that I think may have been a factor. I also think a D60 rear is just too small either way.

For 4.3, auto power, I think you'll be fine, do jana76 kits either way, it's not much different in price when buying everything new.
 
so i had 717 with my 22r and dual tcases with rear having 4.7 after 2 seasons of running them my front had a couple chips like this. now i never got name brand gears, i went to ebay or where ever and got dana 60 gears. if by chance they had a name brand it was luck.
i had something like 271:1 finial crawl 7.17 x 3.54 x 2.28 x 4.7. there was options for everything besides up shifting a hill. if was living out west and wheeled on rock and not muddy rocky hills i would not hesitate with them gears. lots of people get them to survive. i had to beat on my set up to do what it was not good at doing but it still did it.

only thing i would do is build something for the LP dana 60 pinion yoke like they make for the 14bolt. i smashed the crap out of my ujoints all the time. what has saved them is ubolts not straps. but still want a pinion guard like this.


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YotaAtieToo said:
Can anyone explain how those tiny chips happen? Ibe seen them a few times

Totally outside the contact area :confused:
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My only thought is the pinion and ring gear deflecting under load and the contact point moving out. The gear mesh won't be lined up very well obviously at that point and the end of the ring gear is the contact point. Its also not supported well and so it chips off. Could also be the gear teeth not lining up well, no longer being parrallel to each other and essentially acting like a cam or pry bar when the pinion tooth comes out of the ring gear valley. At least thats my guess.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
so i had 717 with my 22r and dual tcases with rear having 4.7 after 2 seasons of running them my front had a couple chips like this. now i never got name brand gears, i went to ebay or where ever and got dana 60 gears. if by chance they had a name brand it was luck.
i had something like 271:1 finial crawl 7.17 x 3.54 x 2.28 x 4.7. there was options for everything besides up shifting a hill. if was living out west and wheeled on rock and not muddy rocky hills i would not hesitate with them gears. lots of people get them to survive. i had to beat on my set up to do what it was not good at doing but it still did it.

only thing i would do is build something for the LP dana 60 pinion yoke like they make for the 14bolt. i smashed the crap out of my ujoints all the time. what has saved them is ubolts not straps. but still want a pinion guard like this.
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Similar set up on my 22re powered buggy....but D60 5.86 Dana Spicer gears with 2.28 front case and Atlas 5.0 rear and manual trans. No issues with the gears since 2006 on sticky 40s.

I am a big fan of the strength to size of genuine Toyota ujoints, so my D60s both run flange style yokes/driveshafts with Toyota joints. Never had any issues that way and my joints have never had to be changed. Doing it on all my next builds....even the flipped LP9s and portals.
 
chaplinfj60 said:
so i had 717 with my 22r and dual tcases with rear having 4.7 after 2 seasons of running them my front had a couple chips like this. now i never got name brand gears, i went to ebay or where ever and got dana 60 gears. if by chance they had a name brand it was luck.
i had something like 271:1 finial crawl 7.17 x 3.54 x 2.28 x 4.7. there was options for everything besides up shifting a hill. if was living out west and wheeled on rock and not muddy rocky hills i would not hesitate with them gears. lots of people get them to survive. i had to beat on my set up to do what it was not good at doing but it still did it.

only thing i would do is build something for the LP dana 60 pinion yoke like they make for the 14bolt. i smashed the crap out of my ujoints all the time. what has saved them is ubolts not straps. but still want a pinion guard like this.


1697717022389.png


1697717547758.png
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Thats good info. I never have had any real issues with the current LP60 or 70 as far as dragging the yokes in the rocks. I asked about the 9" stuff since the pinion is even lower.

Sounds like I might be ok with that plan after all. I think I've been wheeling the current buggy for about 12yrs now and have never had either axle apart. I still don't even have chromo shafts in the front axle, just spicer 35spline stubs and spicer joints. It has spent most of its time in JV, but also Sand Hollow, Rubicon and recently Fordyce.
 
Ghetto Fab. said:
My only thought is the pinion and ring gear deflecting under load and the contact point moving out. The gear mesh won't be lined up very well obviously at that point and the end of the ring gear is the contact point. Its also not supported well and so it chips off. Could also be the gear teeth not lining up well, no longer being parrallel to each other and essentially acting like a cam or pry bar when the pinion tooth comes out of the ring gear valley. At least thats my guess.
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I thought that also, just figured if it deflected that much it would be more catastrophic
 
Is it possible for it to be flexing that much without causing other problems that would leave evidince? I'd expect to see chewed pinion teeth too or something :confused:


I suspect reason it cracks at the edge and instead of in the middle where the contact is is because it's a hard and fairly brittle metal so pretty much any movement is enough to initiate a crack over time and the edge is unsupported (whereas any given bit of metal in the middle always has more material on either side of it) so that's where the metal is free to exit stage left. The root of the tooth is changing from compression to tension depending on if you're doing shenanigans in forward or reverse so eventually something busts out.
 
can't get much better review than haines...

of course he's mentioning 6.17s but if it's good enough for Jesse's standards then why the hell not.

there were threads buried in pirate on these ratios and its definitely a mixed bag of reviews. what i pulled from em were check the gears at least once a year. they survive with 6cyl but obviously even better with 4cyl. automatic trans help as well. mauler and ness were the main names back when that talked on them. if i recall correctly ness still runs them in his twisted rig. back when allot of s&n rigs ran these deeper ratios as well. it's all nothing new at all.


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Ghetto Fab. said:
Its everything else that nickel and dimes you to death to get it running!
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I called those the hundred dollar days because everyday it was another $100 in some random crap I needed from the parts store.

It was a love/hate relationship because you knew you were getting close but damn, it was $100 every freaking day!
 
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