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Budget XJ

Fucking Cherokee people…

Right there under Input Gears and Compatibility
The long shafts protrude 2.1" from the front mounting face of the transfer case. The short version protrudes 1.2".
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No frame stiffeners but at least my sensitive bits will be somewhat protected now :homer:
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Finished the Rubicon with no real issues. Steering pump was unhappy because I over filled it, but survived. I popped a tire off the bead, reseated it in short order. Had to hammer the door sills down to get them to close easily again but that was expected :flipoff2:

Now unfortunately the Jeep will sit until early next year while I finish working on the house.

I’m debating the next phase now. It works pretty well as-is, and I’m kind of worried about adding the ultra low 200:1 and grenading the LP front Dana 30 R&P. I’m considering following the preachings of YotaAtieToo and others and building a JK Dana 30, but at that point it snow balls and I’m basically rebuilding the whole rig with long arms/steering/rear jk44/driveshafts/wheels/37s and I’m questioning going through all that on this rig and why not just start with something else and leave this alone if it works.

What do you guys think about pushing 200:1 through a low pinion WJ Dana 30 4.88 ring and pinion?

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Baby short arm flex :homer:
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Weather was perfect the whole time. Camp setup at the springs.
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I got super lucky, I parked the truck and trailer at Tahoma and we drove the rigs to Loon. Leaving the truck Sunday - Wednesday, I forgot some almonds in the center console. Came back and a bear had gotten into someone else’s truck camper. Bear didn’t touch my truck.
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My buddy made soup bowl. I didn’t try because I didn’t want to tampon the group since I didn’t put any front recovery points on and my rear bumper is questionable at best.
 
fl0w3n said:
Finished the Rubicon with no real issues. Steering pump was unhappy because I over filled it, but survived. I popped a tire off the bead, reseated it in short order. Had to hammer the door sills down to get them to close easily again but that was expected :flipoff2:

Now unfortunately the Jeep will sit until early next year while I finish working on the house.

I’m debating the next phase now. It works pretty well as-is, and I’m kind of worried about adding the ultra low 200:1 and grenading the LP front Dana 30 R&P. I’m considering following the preachings of YotaAtieToo and others and building a JK Dana 30, but at that point it snow balls and I’m basically rebuilding the whole rig with long arms/steering/rear jk44/driveshafts/wheels/37s and I’m questioning going through all that on this rig and why not just start with something else and leave this alone if it works.

What do you guys think about pushing 200:1 through a low pinion WJ Dana 30 4.88 ring and pinion?


Baby short arm flex :homer:

Weather was perfect the whole time. Camp setup at the springs.

I got super lucky, I parked the truck and trailer at Tahoma and we drove the rigs to Loon. Leaving the truck Sunday - Wednesday, I forgot some almonds in the center console. Came back and a bear had gotten into someone else’s truck camper. Bear didn’t touch my truck
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Hard to justify a WJ D30 to Jk30 swap.

You have a pretty polished D30 right? Rcvs and arb? Are the rcvs 30 spline inners or 27 spline?

If 30, maybe a 94-02 or whatever dodge D44 narrowed to use your rvc's then use your current knuckles.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Hard to justify a WJ D30 to Jk30 swap.

You have a pretty polished D30 right? Rcvs and arb? Are the rcvs 30 spline inners or 27 spline?

If 30, maybe a 94-02 or whatever dodge D44 narrowed to use your rvc's then use your current knuckles.
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It's pretty polished... 27 spline RCV's so only warrantied up to 35, and it's a full carrier Auburn ECTED LSD/Locker. Reading through the Toyota thread on doublers and it sounds like the consensus was guys with 4.10's were the ones that usually broke stuff. I'm just thinking with a sub 8" ring gear on the WJ30 and 4.88's I'm potentially in that category if I setup the doubler. Although I'm not really that abusive of a driver. I'm fine sticking with 35's on these axles, I would only step up size if I also stepped up axles.

I've pretty much figured the inverse of what you're saying about the 94-02 D44 idea, the fact that mine are only 27 spline means it's not really worth trying to make them fit into something else.
 
Mike Honcho said:
Your tow rig is way cooler than your XJ! You need tons and 43 stickies! Cheap bastard! :flipoff2:
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:homer: tow rig is on tons :flipoff2:

Some Carli parts just showed up while I was gone, so it'll be getting that soon but staying on the stock tires till those are wasted.
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Take this with an understanding that my Jeep is the only rig I’ve ever worked on.


I’d sell the Cherokee and buy something with a frame before doing an axle swap on a Cherokee. If you want a Cherokee on One to s just buy mine for lots of money.
 
fl0w3n said:
It's pretty polished... 27 spline RCV's so only warrantied up to 35, and it's a full carrier Auburn ECTED LSD/Locker. Reading through the Toyota thread on doublers and it sounds like the consensus was guys with 4.10's were the ones that usually broke stuff. I'm just thinking with a sub 8" ring gear on the WJ30 and 4.88's I'm potentially in that category if I setup the doubler. Although I'm not really that abusive of a driver. I'm fine sticking with 35's on these axles, I would only step up size if I also stepped up axles.

I've pretty much figured the inverse of what you're saying about the 94-02 D44 idea, the fact that mine are only 27 spline means it's not really worth trying to make them fit into something else.
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I'd probably just rock it the way it is. Most of the time I've seen toyota guys get in trouble was at 30000:1 on the revisited and stuffing a tire into a hole. Even with the doubler, you're still auto, which helps a lot.

I have also not seen many front ring and pinions failures vs rear. I did break one set of front 8" 4.10s. but it was 39 stickies, bound up enough that I was revving and slipping the clutch at 175:1. I knew I was either going to make it or break.

I think you have very solid set of axles for 35s.

No matter what, driving style trumps everything on what breaks.
 
A Dana 30 ring and pinion failed the first night of the NAXJA RENO run. Guy also broke pets on his ARB in the process. I don’t know if a newer JK Dana 30 would have changed anything. For all the talks about ‘a dana 30 is pretty much the same as a dana 44’ they sure do seem to be limited.
 
RunningProblem said:
A Dana 30 ring and pinion failed the first night of the NAXJA RENO run. Guy also broke pets on his ARB in the process. I don’t know if a newer JK Dana 30 would have changed anything. For all the talks about ‘a dana 30 is pretty much the same as a dana 44’ they sure do seem to be limited.
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The later D44s and D30s share a lot of parts, except ring and pinions size. If you're breaking ring and pinions then maybe a D44 is right for you. What cracks me up is when guys are breaking axle shafts and then swap to a D44 with the same size ujoints :laughing:

I've only advocated the D30s in light rigs with low power and or small tires. If I was spending the money to swap axles into something like an XJ, I'd have a hard time going to a JK30.

Back to the 27 spline inners, do you know if the birf is the same? Because I don't think inners are all that much If you want to entertain the dodge D44.
 
That’s my point. Upgrading a dana 30 makes it so you won’t break things on 35s. Beyond 35s you’re buckle and diming your upgrades as things break and moving the weak point. Now you have a fully upgraded Dana 30, and you want a dana 44 because the internet says they’re WAAAAAY better.

So you go to 37s with a new front axle swap, which probably requires a rear axle swap (I don’t know JK Bolt pattern) and you do all the same upgrades. Having done a 1 ton swap, I’d keep the Cherokee on 35s, wheel the fuck out of it to get skill and then sell it so you can move to something better. It fucking sucks dick welding 3/16 plate to the entire Jeep just so you can act like you have a frame. It would be smarter, in my opinion of having done a 1 ton swap and realizing Cherokees suck, to buy a full size Chevy and do a 1 ton swap than do it on a Jeep. Mostly because the drive train upgrades on a Jeep kind of suck.

Maybe I’m wrong and I’d be just as hateful to a Toyota with dual cases or a full size with an atlas if I’d started there.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
I'd probably just rock it the way it is. Most of the time I've seen toyota guys get in trouble was at 30000:1 on the revisited and stuffing a tire into a hole. Even with the doubler, you're still auto, which helps a lot.

I have also not seen many front ring and pinions failures vs rear. I did break one set of front 8" 4.10s. but it was 39 stickies, bound up enough that I was revving and slipping the clutch at 175:1. I knew I was either going to make it or break.

I think you have very solid set of axles for 35s.

No matter what, driving style trumps everything on what breaks.
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I’ll be swapping in an AX15 when I do the doubler, so only auto for now.

I’m leaning towards just running what I’ve got. If anything maybe I’ll switch to a different truss that grabs more of the diff and hopefully keeps it stiff.

I like the simplicity and cheapness of this build. I’m still under $10k into it all in, and with a couple more pieces I think it’s going to be a solid capable setup I can go tackle all the technical trails I point it at.
 
RunningProblem said:
That’s my point. Upgrading a dana 30 makes it so you won’t break things on 35s. Beyond 35s you’re buckle and diming your upgrades as things break and moving the weak point. Now you have a fully upgraded Dana 30, and you want a dana 44 because the internet says they’re WAAAAAY better.

So you go to 37s with a new front axle swap, which probably requires a rear axle swap (I don’t know JK Bolt pattern) and you do all the same upgrades. Having done a 1 ton swap, I’d keep the Cherokee on 35s, wheel the fuck out of it to get skill and then sell it so you can move to something better. It fucking sucks dick welding 3/16 plate to the entire Jeep just so you can act like you have a frame. It would be smarter, in my opinion of having done a 1 ton swap and realizing Cherokees suck, to buy a full size Chevy and do a 1 ton swap than do it on a Jeep. Mostly because the drive train upgrades on a Jeep kind of suck.

Maybe I’m wrong and I’d be just as hateful to a Toyota with dual cases or a full size with an atlas if I’d started there.
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I think you’re just a hateful person :flipoff2: builds break
 
I’m definitely hateful. I also like to think the grass is greener elsewhere.
 
fl0w3n said:
I’ll be swapping in an AX15 when I do the doubler, so only auto for now.

I’m leaning towards just running what I’ve got. If anything maybe I’ll switch to a different truss that grabs more of the diff and hopefully keeps it stiff.

I like the simplicity and cheapness of this build. I’m still under $10k into it all in, and with a couple more pieces I think it’s going to be a solid capable setup I can go tackle all the technical trails I point it at.
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Meh, autos are so much nicer to wheel :flipoff2:

There's definitely the potential to break parts with thay deep gearing and a manual. Especially with actual engine torque on that 4.0

Like I said, it's mostly driver. If you can idle around and feel when you're bound up, it could last for ever. But if you want something you can drink 27 white claws and hit a Boulder field in low low on the Rev limiter, 60s may not be enough
 
YotaAtieToo said:
Meh, autos are so much nicer to wheel :flipoff2:

There's definitely the potential to break parts with thay deep gearing and a manual. Especially with actual engine torque on that 4.0

Like I said, it's mostly driver. If you can idle around and feel when you're bound up, it could last for ever. But if you want something you can drink 27 white claws and hit a Boulder field in low low on the Rev limiter, 60s may not be enough
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I have a 23 spline aw4 I could swap too, but I like the idea of the gearing options in a manual setup. Also the simplicity, I’ll be stripping the Renix engine harness down this winter too and it should be a dumb simple setup by the time I’m done with everything.

I’m a sissy and just drink bubbly Toyota driver waters on the trail :flipoff2: so that’s one variable down
 
fl0w3n said:
I have a 23 spline aw4 I could swap too, but I like the idea of the gearing options in a manual setup. Also the simplicity, I’ll be stripping the Renix engine harness down this winter too and it should be a dumb simple setup by the time I’m done with everything.

I’m a sissy and just drink bubbly Toyota driver waters on the trail :flipoff2: so that’s one variable down
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Obviously that's an age old debate that has no right or wrong answer. I've never had a serious trail rig with an auto, but my mild rigs with autos are nice. I'll be making baby Jesus cry with a manual to auto swap eventually.

You mean like lecrox? :laughing::flipoff2:
 
JK D30 ring & pinion is stronger than pre-JK D30s.

They’re also wider which can be appreciated for increased stability with taller tires and suspension lift.

IMHO Keep an eye out for a built D30 axle out of XJ (for the high pinion) or a JK to come up for sale if you want to save money.

Aftermarket full replacement carrier locker in the D30 will help it’s ring & pinion to survive immensely.

Full circle snap ring on wheel u-joints! Don’t skip it!

Drive responsibly and inspect your wheel unit bearings, ball joints and u-joints on your pre-trip checklist and the D30 will serve you well.
 
TrailTamer said:
JK D30 ring & pinion is stronger than pre-JK D30s.

They’re also wider which can be appreciated for increased stability with taller tires and suspension lift.

IMHO Keep an eye out for a built D30 axle out of XJ (for the high pinion) or a JK to come up for sale if you want to save money.

Aftermarket full replacement carrier locker in the D30 will help it’s ring & pinion to survive immensely.

Full circle snap ring on wheel u-joints! Don’t skip it!

Drive responsibly and inspect your wheel unit bearings, ball joints and u-joints on your pre-trip checklist and the D30 will serve you well.
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Is there much real world evidence of a hp30 surviving where a lp30 didn't? I'm aware of the advange, just never saw too much apples to apples on how much difference it makes. I've seen hp gears break in reverse though :laughing:

No ujoints in an rcv :flipoff2:
 
RunningProblem said someone broke a ring a pinion at Reno Fest this year, not sure if it was a HP30 or what

But I’m wondering if it’s the same guy who Gordon / Jason / Aaron we’re talking about at Sierra Fest last weekend, some guy who drives full throttle and just beats on shit?
 
fl0w3n said:
RunningProblem said someone broke a ring a pinion at Reno Fest this year, not sure if it was a HP30 or what

But I’m wondering if it’s the same guy who Gordon / Jason / Aaron we’re talking about at Sierra Fest last weekend, some guy who drives full throttle and just beats on shit?
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"I saw a guy break xxx" really means nothing.

There's just too many factors to really make a conclusion. I know guys who broke very reputable parts doing nothing, but those parts were abused for years. Someone who didn't know them could easily speculate those parts weren't all that great.

I feel that gear set up is very crucial with these tiny ring and pinions. So if dude slapped it in himself and it blew up, we'll maybe thays the issue.

I think the Hate for the D30 comes from guys who dropped $5k+ on every upgrade you can, then still break. I'd be butthurt too. But for you, you're not into it much, it's pretty built, and it's in there and functional.

The other bummer is that there isn't much of an upgrade short of a D60. Sure there is a JK44, but the cost makes that a tough choice.

Another one I've thought about if you really only want to run 35-37s would be a budget Fab 9 housing with your WJ knuckles. You could then get 31 spline inners made, buy or build a cheap 3rd, and have a pretty decent axle with out a huge investment.
 
YotaAtieToo said:
"I saw a guy break xxx" really means nothing.

There's just too many factors to really make a conclusion. I know guys who broke very reputable parts doing nothing, but those parts were abused for years. Someone who didn't know them could easily speculate those parts weren't all that great.

I feel that gear set up is very crucial with these tiny ring and pinions. So if dude slapped it in himself and it blew up, we'll maybe thays the issue.

I think the Hate for the D30 comes from guys who dropped $5k+ on every upgrade you can, then still break. I'd be butthurt too. But for you, you're not into it much, it's pretty built, and it's in there and functional.

The other bummer is that there isn't much of an upgrade short of a D60. Sure there is a JK44, but the cost makes that a tough choice.

Another one I've thought about if you really only want to run 35-37s would be a budget Fab 9 housing with your WJ knuckles. You could then get 31 spline inners made, buy or build a cheap 3rd, and have a pretty decent axle with out a huge investment.
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All good points. Also makes it hard to tell if one setup would have survived a scenario where another broke since there's no real way to compare apples to apples.

That makes me think I should maybe get my gear setup checked. It was already setup when I got it, and I removed the carrier and ring gear when I rebuilt the LSD. I just shoved it back with the previous shim stack.

There is a brand new ruff stuff 9" floating on Marketplace for $800... I hadn't thought of reusing my C's from the WJ. I did ask RCV and I can go to 30 spline inner shaft for about $700 total pre tax etc. Keeping the short and long tubes on a 9" the same I could I guess just have the same axle but with a 9" gear set. Interesting... at the end of the day would it really be worth it to throw $2-2,500k at a Dana 30 based "309" haha
$800 housing
$700 30 spline inner shafts to bump up to 37 capability
$600 ball joint eliminators
$1000 3rd
 
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fl0w3n doubtful. It was a guy named Anthony. He was on the trail before Alan headed a group up it. They were kind of saying the guy shouldn’t have gone past gatekeeper, but in his defense the trail was pretty much what I’d expect for a Cherokee on 33s to struggle with. Other guys struggled too. They could have been talking about me, but honestly they were so far ahead and just wheeling with guys they knew I doubt they noticed me there one time.
I wonder if the XJ who just did a JK swap with 37s was out there. He ALSO snapped a ring gear on a trail run about 1 hour from reno just before Reno Run. At that point he said ‘well I guess I’m doing my JK swap sooner.’ Since the axles were in his garage he just started doing it.


It was a low pinion. I told him I went to one tons because ‘putting money into a Dana 30 is a waste.’ He might have agreed after this point. JK axles are the new ‘just one ton swap it’ because they apparently ‘bolt in’ much easier. Also, they have lots of aftermarket support, and if some guy upgrades his wheels you find take offs.
Axle swaps are expensive. JK. One ton. Custom housing. 609. 9”. This shit isn’t cheap. If I could take all the money back I’d just reconsider everything. I’m glad I went to one tons. It allowed me to break other shit. I can run 35s and drag diffs or pick different lines. I’ll just rip a brake line or something stupid. 200:1 is a lot of torque and if your ring gear becomes the weak point then get really good at fixing them. These aren’t Toyotas so 228:1 won’t work. :flipoff2:


I would 10/10 recommend the under frame playing if you’re going bigger. It’s definitely well thought out from Ruffstuff and has been on sale a few times. Plate the fuck out of the Cherokee if you want to go bigger. Front. Rear. Under. Above. Sideways. Slantways. Play it. Ruffstuff is my preferred brand because it’s what I learned existed first.

Arb locker photo.
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When I wheeled a d30 back in the day my only issue was destroying the u joint area. I ran the 297x and they would still fail on occasion but the ring gear stood up. I mean at 35s you're at the max of what the axle can take.
 
I had two 9” axles, one with a spool, before my one ton swap. If I hadn’t been so intimidated (I’ve never done any of this stuff before) of a rear axle swap I would be running a 9” rear with a spool. My ‘stupid’ idea was to have a third member for street and crawling. Swap it out at the trailhead or the gas station if you drove from Sac to Fordyce.
 
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