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mobil1syn said:
having spent way too much time in a shop with all the doors on one wall, add another even if its a man door to the back of the building. it will help you get a breeze when opened.

start the slope for the doors inside so to help keep any buildup on the doors from coming in.
Click to expand...
Hmm thats a good point. It would also be nice for quick access to anything I store back there.

I am planning to start the slop about a foot inside the door. Dont want too much, but also dont want water coming in.
 
AKnate said:
3 12ft wide doors and a man door on 50ft leaves only about 12 feet total of wall.
Click to expand...

Also that the 12 feet is broken up into five sections - so just over two feet of wall per section between doors and on the ends. You lose rigidity in the wall with more openings. You'll likely have to put in shear walls to keep the rigidity of the building along that wall.

AKnate said:
I back semi trucks in 12ft openings all the time. Have about a foot on each side of the mirrors.
Click to expand...

I was going to say the same thing. I put tractors and 53' trailers in and out of these doors (12'w x 14'h) regularly with only 85' outside to line up. I do agree that a wider door allows you more flexibility to go in at an angle, though.

IMG_6293edit.JPG


Kunker said:
Exactly what I did here in Onterrible - swapped the 100A panel from the house to the shop, upgraded the house to 200A. Limited by the buried line to the pole for the main service, otherwise I would have gone 400A at the house (because why not?) and future proofed it. But like you, I work alone most of the time, and 100A has been more than enough.

EDIT: small compressor at the moment, single 210 MIG, no TIG/stick/plasma. If/when I finally get a big compressor and (someday) a plasma table, that may change.
Click to expand...

I've got 400A coming to the house (a C320 meter) split to a 200A panel in the house and a second 200A panel in the workshop. When I have 220V welders, plasma, compressor, and such that can be going at the same time like SomeGuy says and then add in heat or air conditioning and then have your father using the 220V tablesaw, bandsaw, and dust collector in the upstairs woodshop I can start drawing some amperage without worrying about lights dimming either in the shop or the house.
 
PAToyota said:
Also that the 12 feet is broken up into five sections - so just over two feet of wall per section between doors and on the ends. You lose rigidity in the wall with more openings. You'll likely have to put in shear walls to keep the rigidity of the building along that wall.
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Yes, not too worried about the walls. They'll be sheeted both sides for shear, and worst case I have to throw some Simpson Hold Downs at it for overturning. But Ill probably be able to make anchor bolts into the grade beam work. Its not like I have 6 stories of overturning to deal with lol

Ya I agree, i think I will be fine with a 12' Door. What I might do is drop to 2 doors and do a 10x10 and a 14Wx12H

I really just need to see what I can get for power. I am awaiting the letter so that the power company can give me information. If I cant get more than 200 amps, I may look at getting a separate feed to the shop. But I would really like to avoid this.
 
Bit of a update. About 2 weeks out from possession, and starting to nail everything down so I can get permits applied for ASAP.

Elevation: We did another walk through and I surveyed the area where the shop will be. There is almost 6' of elevation difference across the shop. The plan is dig out the black dirt, and build up the back corner 2' above current grade. Upsizing to 3' grade beams and some adjusting of the front elevation, I should get a decently set up yard.

Piles: Screw Piles $7000, Concrete Piles $3500. The biggest unknown right now is if I need to get a geotech report/drill hole done to see what the soils are like. Being a $3500 cost, I would jump to screw piles at that point. I chatted with a local engineer about projects done in the area and he has had drills done and come back with 20-25 kPa of skin friction. Ill chat with my boss today about using those numbers and Ill go from there.

Overhang: For ease, I think I am going to eliminate the roof overhangs. Ill be putting a 3' apron on the front and will have gutters anyways so i dont see a huge benefit.

Side note: Anyone local to Alberta have an opinion on Greenfox vs Lux for Windows on the house?
 
Ask AKnate about his thoughts on overhangs lol.

irate4x4.com

Shop roof overhang

The idiot that built my place forgot to put overhangs on the front and back. I'm trying to decide if I should add to the roof a section of tin (~2ft) or build an "awning" over the doors. Right now it sucks that there's no protection from snow and rain. The man door is not even 8 months old...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
 
GLTHFJ60 said:
Ask AKnate about his thoughts on overhangs lol.

irate4x4.com

Shop roof overhang

The idiot that built my place forgot to put overhangs on the front and back. I'm trying to decide if I should add to the roof a section of tin (~2ft) or build an "awning" over the doors. Right now it sucks that there's no protection from snow and rain. The man door is not even 8 months old...
irate4x4.com irate4x4.com
Click to expand...
No overhangs are stupid and look like ass.
 
I have 40' by 50' fully insulated shop and I am out side of Vancouver, the biggest issue is maintaining heat during the winter, which radiant floor heating will help for you.

My shop does not have radiant heat in the floor, so when I moved in I had my shop checked with a IR camera for heat loss (during a week -10C weather) and I was surprised to see even with 2" insulation underneath the floor was a heat suck (like over 80 percent of the heat loss). So I guess what I am trying to say the more insulation you can install before pouring the floor, the better. Especially being up in Sturgeon County.

The 12 foot wide door definitely helps as it makes it easier to back in with my motorhome and enclosed trailer, I can even open my drivers' door on my Class C if I am in the door way backing in.

Also having a back man door for airflow is a great idea as I had to put one on after I moved for the same reason and helps when you want to cool the shop in the evening.
 
LCexplorer said:
I have 40' by 50' fully insulated shop and I am out side of Vancouver, the biggest issue is maintaining heat during the winter, which radiant floor heating will help for you.

My shop does not have radiant heat in the floor, so when I moved in I had my shop checked with a IR camera for heat loss (during a week -10C weather) and I was surprised to see even with 2" insulation underneath the floor was a heat suck (like over 80 percent of the heat loss). So I guess what I am trying to say the more insulation you can install before pouring the floor, the better. Especially being up in Sturgeon County.

The 12 foot wide door definitely helps as it makes it easier to back in with my motorhome and enclosed trailer, I can even open my drivers' door on my Class C if I am in the door way backing in.

Also having a back man door for airflow is a great idea as I had to put one on after I moved for the same reason and helps when you want to cool the shop in the evening.
Click to expand...
Wow, that's a lot of the heat loss. That's crazy, especially that a few of the radiant heat shops I know of in the area have no underslab insulation.

I made the mistake of opening the door of my old motorhome while backing through the overhead door. Didnt go well :flipoff2:
 
broken4_racing said:
Bit of a update. About 2 weeks out from possession, and starting to nail everything down so I can get permits applied for ASAP.

Elevation: We did another walk through and I surveyed the area where the shop will be. There is almost 6' of elevation difference across the shop. The plan is dig out the black dirt, and build up the back corner 2' above current grade. Upsizing to 3' grade beams and some adjusting of the front elevation, I should get a decently set up yard.

Piles: Screw Piles $7000, Concrete Piles $3500. The biggest unknown right now is if I need to get a geotech report/drill hole done to see what the soils are like. Being a $3500 cost, I would jump to screw piles at that point. I chatted with a local engineer about projects done in the area and he has had drills done and come back with 20-25 kPa of skin friction. Ill chat with my boss today about using those numbers and Ill go from there.

Overhang: For ease, I think I am going to eliminate the roof overhangs. Ill be putting a 3' apron on the front and will have gutters anyways so i dont see a huge benefit.

Side note: Anyone local to Alberta have an opinion on Greenfox vs Lux for Windows on the house?
Click to expand...

you'll regret this decision
 
broken4_racing said:
Not sure I follow how overhangs would make a difference?
Click to expand...

If the roof overhangs the structure, the overhanging ends won't be heated, so they'll tend to ice up less. Heat from the structure migrating to the roof deck causes that problem, especially if it dams up at the edge of the roof.

AFAIK anyway, haven't lived in snow country in a long time.
 
You only get ice dam problems when the water has more roof to run down after the warm spot. Like melting on the main roof and then re-freezing on a porch roof or something like that. If the warm spot is the edge of the roof you'll just get killer icicles when the temp is "just right". :laughing:
 
arse_sidewards said:
You only get ice dam problems when the water has more roof to run down after the warm spot. Like melting on the main roof and then re-freezing on a porch roof or something like that. If the warm spot is the edge of the roof you'll just get killer icicles when the temp is "just right". :laughing:
Click to expand...
Right, So then overhangs would be worse than no overhang for ice damns?
 
broken4_racing said:
Right, So then overhangs would be worse than no overhang for ice damns?
Click to expand...
More overhang and same pitch means bigger truss which means you're adding more space for insulation and air gap between the conditioned space and the roof surface. If you're getting more overhang by using a flatter and wider truss then that's just worse all around if you're concerned about snow.

You basically never see a roof where the extra overhang is made by extending the top chord of the roof truss past the heel, at least not around here.
 
And while I'm here, fuck gutters. Do a gravel drip line with proper drainage.
 
An overhang puts the runoff out away from the wall. All the new developments around here have gone to no overhangs. So when a gutter freezes up the water all backs up right into the wall.

True, ice dams are formed where you have not enough insulation in the roof, which allows the snow to melt, and then the water refreezes at the colder surface below it - typically the gutter or overhang. Ice and water shield (the membrane under shingles) will keep it from getting in at the roof sheathing, but I still see a lot of times where it goes down the wall and enters at the roof/wall intersection. Again, having an overhang carries this water out away from the wall before it comes down.
 
PAToyota said:
An overhang puts the runoff out away from the wall. All the new developments around here have gone to no overhangs. So when a gutter freezes up the water all backs up right into the wall.

True, ice dams are formed where you have not enough insulation in the roof, which allows the snow to melt, and then the water refreezes at the colder surface below it - typically the gutter or overhang. Ice and water shield (the membrane under shingles) will keep it from getting in at the roof sheathing, but I still see a lot of times where it goes down the wall and enters at the roof/wall intersection. Again, having an overhang carries this water out away from the wall before it comes down.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, Ya that's a good point. Water away from the wall is always a good thing.
 
I see more and more "band aid" approaches to buildings as the years go by when one really should look at the basic design principles. And I don't mean aesthetic design - I mean functional design. Don't rely on caulk and sealants. Rely on designs that shed water. Reduce areas that water can get into, make sure you have flashing where it is needed, get enough slope to get water to run away rather than pooling, etc. All the common sense stuff they did 100 years ago but now try to circumvent with "technology."
 
PAToyota said:
I see more and more "band aid" approaches to buildings as the years go by when one really should look at the basic design principles. And I don't mean aesthetic design - I mean functional design. Don't rely on caulk and sealants. Rely on designs that shed water. Reduce areas that water can get into, make sure you have flashing where it is needed, get enough slope to get water to run away rather than pooling, etc. All the common sense stuff they did 100 years ago but now try to circumvent with "technology."
Click to expand...
Ya I agree with that.
 
Make both your big doors the same size. 12x12 or 14x12 with windows in the top panels, i wish i had done that insteadof solid. Put the 10x10 on the back or side wall.

Also rarely thought about is anchor points in the floor to pull on.
 
LCexplorer said:
I have 40' by 50' fully insulated shop and I am out side of Vancouver, the biggest issue is maintaining heat during the winter, which radiant floor heating will help for you.

My shop does not have radiant heat in the floor, so when I moved in I had my shop checked with a IR camera for heat loss (during a week -10C weather) and I was surprised to see even with 2" insulation underneath the floor was a heat suck (like over 80 percent of the heat loss). So I guess what I am trying to say the more insulation you can install before pouring the floor, the better. Especially being up in Sturgeon County.

The 12 foot wide door definitely helps as it makes it easier to back in with my motorhome and enclosed trailer, I can even open my drivers' door on my Class C if I am in the door way backing in.

Also having a back man door for airflow is a great idea as I had to put one on after I moved for the same reason and helps when you want to cool the shop in the evening.
Click to expand...

What kind of insulation under your slab ?
Its not uncommon to do 2-4" of closed cell foam under slabs to prevent what you have happening.
 
rockmup said:
What kind of insulation under your slab ?
Its not uncommon to do 2-4" of closed cell foam under slabs to prevent what you have happening.
Click to expand...

The insulation was 2 inch white styrofoam, probably the best what the 80s had to offer when my shop was built. The rest of the shop was quite well insulated with double pane windows and everything, I was just surprised with the floor being the main culprit for heat loss over the windows. I also suspect that the whole floor may have not been insulated (the big blue blob on IR camera while pointing the middle of the floor kind of indicated that).
 
LCexplorer said:
The insulation was 2 inch white styrofoam, probably the best what the 80s had to offer when my shop was built. The rest of the shop was quite well insulated with double pane windows and everything, I was just surprised with the floor being the main culprit for heat loss over the windows. I also suspect that the whole floor may have not been insulated (the big blue blob on IR camera while pointing the middle of the floor kind of indicated that).
Click to expand...
That was a thing for quite awhile and as you can tell it has no r- value to speak of and zero strength, its why they don't use it any more.
 
Projectjunkie said:
Don't let the "60x120 200amps or don't bother" crowd get to you. I'd much rather work in my 32x32 with 100 amps now than work in the dirt another 10 years saving for the big shop :laughing:

Sure, keep your options open for future upgrades, but delayed gratification doesn't apply to building a shop:laughing:
Click to expand...
And don't forget that basically none of those people could afford that shit as their personal shop. 9x/10 it's their business shop they happen to wrench on personal shit in. But they don't portray it that way.
 
broken4_racing said:
That's a good point. I often store stuff in the enclosed so being able to get in there would be nice.

For the doors, I have the 12'H door on the left planned for RV's.
Click to expand...
Looking at your diagrams I would:
1. See about raising the ceiling so that you can fit a 14' tall door (even if you don't install that tall of a door now) that way you "future proof" against taller trailers in the future

2. When you lay your tubes in the floor, lay them out to allow a lift in each bay (either a 2 post of a 4 post), that way you can add another lift or two if you want to down the road.

3. Which way will your roof pitch? Can you have it so the doors are on the gable side? Otherwise you will end up with piles of snow/ice in front of the doors when the roof unloads

4. When grading, having 1-2x the depth of your shop be flat (or close to it) and graveled so you can unload a trailer into a bay without needing to jackknife the tow vehicle makes life a lot easier (looks like you have that?)

5. On the overhead hoist, would a forklift with a boom on the forks do what you want for lifting engines and such? If so, I would get a forklift (or at least a walk behind power drive "stacker" straddle type lift), doesn't take up much space and it will likely be the most used item in your shop.
Something like this:
00808_jyODeLBKJYg_0t20CI_1200x900.jpg


mobil1syn said:
having spent way too much time in a shop with all the doors on one wall, add another even if its a man door to the back of the building. it will help you get a breeze when opened.
Click to expand...
Best part of my 30x40 shop is, two 11h 12w doors on the front and one in the back.
Open a front door and the back door and you get a cross breeze.
mobil1syn said:
start the slope for the doors inside so to help keep any buildup on the doors from coming in.
Click to expand...
Also a good idea, doesn't have to be much, just enough to have the first 8-12" have 1/8" to 1/4" of drop.

Aaron Z
 
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