Billing Customers For Rust Issues

[total newb]

Who’s scamming anyone? I’d charge book time and if billing for rust, I snap a few pictures of exactly what I dealt with if the customer wants to see exactly why I’m biking extra. Most don’t care, but anyone that wants to make a fuss about it, I have documentation.

Who ever the fuck you were assuming was a going to slow their workers down cause "we're hourly" you stupid fuck.

Do you own this "shop" or you still just a flat rate shop bitch?

Do you have documentation? Cause your whole reason for this thread is to figure out how to handle the situation after the rotten pos is torn down on your rack

 

[Ted_Kaczynski]

What exactly do you disagree with me about?

Im saying you don’t understand the costs of doing business and what you’ve gotta charge in order to turn a profit. That cost is passed along to the customer, Like it or not. That’s how business works.

I'm saying if YOUR costs of doing business isn't competitive, you lost before you even tried. Your poor business decisions, lazy practices, and mismanaged overhead isn't going to capture me as a customer. Not sure I can put it any simpler.

 

[Motorcharge]

Who ever the fuck you were assuming was a going to slow their workers down cause "we're hourly" you stupid fuck.

Do you own this "shop" or you still just a flat rate shop bitch?

Do you have documentation? Cause your whole reason for this thread is to figure out how to handle the situation after the rotten pos is torn down on your rack

Dipshit doesn't own shit. When he signed up on Pirate all he did was cry about flat rate and favoritism for the entire two years he worked in a shop and then went on to tell everyone how he quit and started his own "business" going to customers instead of working out of a shop. When he got shit on for doing that under the table he started on this stupid rust bullshit every couple weeks with a new thread where he got universally shit on as well.

Anyone who's worked in a professional shop for more than two minutes knows who this idiot is. He's the dipshit that never stops whining. He's the FNG who cries about favoritism and never getting gravy jobs and is too stupid to realize he's not getting them because he spends all his time whining and can't beat book time on an oil change.

 

[ConwayMuddy]

.I live in Wisconsin, roads are salted from possibly October into may some years. Dont even get me started on the brine they dump. My 16 year old truck has less rust than most 6 year old trucks. If you live here and as a mechanic dont hose the fuck out of everything with penetrating oil first, you're already doing it wrong. If I fan get rusty stuff loose lying in my gravel driveway with a breaker bar and a propane torch I dont want to hear fuck all about you struggling on a hoist indoors with better tools. You snapped a bolt or rounded off a nut, you broke it, you bought it.

 

[Mattafact]

OP is a good example of why everyone hates this entitled generation.

 

[jeepyj]

I agree losing your ass on some jobs is life. What I don't get is the indignation from customers (and members here) at the very notion that you should even charge for dealing with rust at all. Your shop obviously had no trouble billing for these type of issues. More shops need to do the same.

If you live in a place where shit is rusty, assume everyfuckingthing is going to be rusty and build that into your 'shop rate'. If you are getting customers and not losing money, you win. If you charge what everyone else is charging and lose money, you're too slow. If you get a project that's magically not rusty, give the customer a discount. That will be a happy customer. If you don't have the occasional unhappy customer, you're not charging enough. Figure it out. It's like rocket science, but easier.

.

 

[FleshEater]

.I live in Wisconsin, roads are salted from possibly October into may some years. Dont even get me started on the brine they dump. My 16 year old truck has less rust than most 6 year old trucks. If you live here and as a mechanic dont hose the fuck out of everything with penetrating oil first, you're already doing it wrong. If I fan get rusty stuff loose lying in my gravel driveway with a breaker bar and a propane torch I dont want to hear fuck all about you struggling on a hoist indoors with better tools. You snapped a bolt or rounded off a nut, you broke it, you bought it.

I was literally going to post something close to this.

Jimmy...if you're working on rusted cars, then you're either not thinking outside the box, or more focused on whining about it than solving it.

Simple: PB Blaster (Kroil is better), propane torch or better, and a little down time waiting.

Here's some advice, if you gotta muscle a bolt off way more than you think you should, stop what you're doing add more of the above and try again. All of us who live in the rust belt have encountered what you're talking about. We just get it done, we don't whine endlessly about it. My last experience was one broken camber bolt and three others that were so rusted it took 6 hours of swinging a hammer, running an impact, and using heat and PB Blaster. Sometimes you just need patience.

 

[arse_sidewards]

I agree, not having to deal with particularly bad rust issues here in the south. Personally, I’d have a few photos of various underbodies in the waiting room, labeled 1-4 in terms of rust. #1 is minimal/normal and book price. #2 is a $50 upcharge, #3 is $150, and #4 take your shit to the junkyard

Knowing southern mechanics #4 is probably something that northern mechanics can beat book time on.

 

[Mr Stubs]

Jimmy8675309 wasn't hugged enough as a child, so he craves the attention of strange men.

You're strange enough - go give OP a hug

I think he had 2 or 3-10 threads about this on the "P" and already got all the answers possible.

But that powerful "look at me" lust carries on, so he jerks off on the sidewalk to get reactions.

Jesus Christ if you weren’t right....

After reading some of the above I now remember why I forgot about this dude.... He doesn’t want answers, just wants to argue a point.

 

[87manche]

Jesus Christ if you weren’t right....

After reading some of the above I now remember why I forgot about this dude.... He doesn’t want answers, just wants to justify his fucking over customers.

FTFY

He wants it to benefit him in every way.
beats book time, Pay me book time.
Longer than book time, Pay me more.

He wants no risk to himself for his shitty job quoting abilities.

 

[DMG]

Almost all of my customers stay with me for years so I antiseize or grease stuff. I love it when a rust belt car comes in and everything comes apart nicely.

 

[junkytj]

Have any of you rust belt mechanics tried "knocker loose?" My guys swear by it.

 

[jimmy123456789]

Almost all of my customers stay with me for years so I antiseize or grease stuff. I love it when a rust belt car comes in and everything comes apart nicely.

If more rust belt guys were like you we wouldn’t have near as many issues. But nope, most don’t see the value in it and would rather fight and beat on shit to prove how “macho” they are.

There’s a difference between not being a pussy and being a straight up dumbass.

 

[crisbee1]

Have any of you rust belt mechanics tried "knocker loose?" My guys swear by it.

My 1975 Auto shop teacher explained to us of this rust stuff you speak of, he also said that water is the best penetrant for the rusty stuff. Then he showed us how to spin a wheel bearing with shop air and to never do that cause the bearing may explode. One week we went to each of the "Big Three" dealerships, We toured the bays and learned about flat rate and that the good MECHANICS got the cherry jobs and if you were good you could make bank.
Used to be the MECHANIC with skills could write his own check.
Most of the GenX Mechanics I know that worked at dealerships left the profession as the manufacturer would hassle them with warranty work claims, spending way to much time fighting with the dealership and manufacturer for pay.
These days skills do not seem to be as important as they used to be.
Old man morning coffee rant off.

 

[jimmy123456789]

And then there's being a lazy fuck with zero grasp on reality.


Yes, that's referring to you.

Every good tech I’ve ever known was “lazy” in the sense of trying to find the easiest way to accomplish something with the least effort. It’s called working smarter, not harder.

That’s why I air hammer rotors off, use it to separate ball joints and tie rods from knuckles (if I can’t fit a puller). All ways to save wear on your body and accomplish the task at hand with the least effort. If you wanna beat your brains out be my guest. Doesn’t take any longer to grab the air hammer out of my cart vs a regular hammer, either.

Seriously though, how don’t i grasp reality? Customers should be charged for rust issues, period.

 

[ExWrench]

Customers should be charged for rust issues, period.

Then charge them and see how the market reacts.
Or start another thread seeking an echo chamber for your inane chatter.
What do you want, an "IBB stamp of approval" to show your customers your billing is justified?

The market sets the pricing in the long run. If you add $50-$100 to every job while other shops don't, you could become "that shifty shop that always tacks on an extra charge" and you lose customers. If your shop rate is $110 & the shop down the block's is $135 but they don't have that "sleazy" reputation, they may be charging more per job than you; while they have customers lined up to take a fucking, customers thankful to have an alternative to "Upcharge Jimmy".

People are generally reasonable - it just takes clear communication so they don't think you're hosing them.
If you want more than the shop across town for the same job, you need to communicate the additional value.
Based on this thread & same thread(s) on PBB, the communication is where you're going to fuck yourself

 

[TRINDU]

Seriously though, how don’t i grasp reality? Customers should be charged for rust issues, period.

You should start your own business and pricing structure.

Oh wait...

 

[Thefishguy77]

If you're good and everything goes right, a good tech can get a 3 hour job done in 1 without loss of quality, but an inexperienced tech might take the full 3. It also lets you know that they'll charge you the same labor whether the job actually takes 3 hours, 1 hour or 5 hours. No different than contractor work or getting bids on anything. The quoted price is for serviced rendered regardless of time.

That's why shops need to get better at quoting time and not be afraid to charge extra to deal with rust.

See here is the problem. You lack a ton off experience. You give the contractor example but I doubt you ever worked for one. You seem stuck on the concept of fairness and because of that you can’t move past that. As a carpenter who deals with bid jobs a lot often there is damage that cant be seen until it is exposed. Instead of going on the web and whining about it, a professional contacts their client and talks to them, explains the situation and tries to resolve it so both the business and customer are happy. And guess what? If someone has to take it in the shorts its the business. Why you ask? Because if the business takes it in the shorts once but the client is very happy the have you do work again for them as well as referring you to their friends. I have had several jobs where we just lost money on a project but the client was so happy with our ability to work with them and the surprises found that the recommendations they give are far better than the “Yup, showed up on time did what they said they would and left.”

You say if you’re good you can get the job done in less than 3 hours. Using your example you save 2 hours. So you start on your next job, same one but more rust and it take you 4 hours. So you have worked 5 hours been paid for 6 and thanks to beating book on the first job you might be able to squeeze in a quick job for the evening or begin tomorrows first projects in the evening if the car is there.

Now I am not a mechanic but have several good friends that own shops or do it for real. I let them read the first page of this thread and the first page of you flat rate whine over on PBB. Everyone one said you sound like a new lube guy and not an actual tech. Take it for what it is but when professionals are saying you are wrong and saying you sound like a whiny gash maybe you are the problem and a lack of experience and professionalism is what’s really behind your frustration.

Open communication and the willingness to accept you’re wrong will help you more in a business than going on a website and asking people to validate your feelings.

 

[Thefishguy77]

Every good tech I’ve ever known was “lazy” in the sense of trying to find the easiest way to accomplish something with the least effort. It’s called working smarter, not harder.

That’s why I air hammer rotors off, use it to separate ball joints and tie rods from knuckles (if I can’t fit a puller). All ways to save wear on your body and accomplish the task at hand with the least effort. If you wanna beat your brains out be my guest. Doesn’t take any longer to grab the air hammer out of my cart vs a regular hammer, either.

Seriously though, how don’t i grasp reality? Customers should be charged for rust issues, period.

As long as you give the ones you beat book on a refund for the time you don't spend working on their car. After all, wouldn’t a properly maintained clean rust free car be credited to the customer. So because they make your life easier why should you not cut them a break price wise, It only seems logical if you are taking the position of those that do not keep their shit rust free should be charged more

 

[oldRAT]

A REAL mechanic can deal with rust issues. There are ways to manage every problem... Except a whinny little bitch that doesn't like the answers he gets to the question he's asked.

 

[ExWrench]

There are ways to manage every problem... Except a whinny little bitch that doesn't like the answers he gets to the question he's asked.

That's manageable, too.

I read about it in a thread on PBB - a Chrysler dealership gave the guy all shit jobs on flat rate until he left for another shop

 

[McCracken]

As a shade tree mechanic I have learned tricks over the years when dealing with rust issues and the like. I don't see why you haven't as that you're a professional...or so you claim. If it's a straight forward job and you beat book time, great. However, once you have to tackle a tougher situation I don't see why your experience wouldn't kick in and you pull a trick out of the hat to deal with the situation. Will it take you an extra 15 mins? Maybe, but I'd consider that well within the variability of the job. It's like your dumbass hits the reset button with every new job and you've forgotten what helped you in the past. In your line of work, if you can't recognize a problem and come up with a solution quickly maybe it's time to give up and go back to changing oil.

 

[DMG]

FTFY

He wants it to benefit him in every way.
beats book time, Pay me book time.
Longer than book time, Pay me more.

He wants no risk to himself for his shitty job quoting abilities.

To be fair, if something breaks because it is rusty, that adds steps to the job and adds cost in torch/welder consumables, drill bits, etc.


if you beat book time you aren’t (hopefully) skipping necessary steps. You just have done the job and streamlined your processes.

 

[DMG]

As a shade tree mechanic I have learned tricks over the years when dealing with rust issues and the like. I don't see why you haven't as that you're a professional...or so you claim. If it's a straight forward job and you beat book time, great. However, once you have to tackle a tougher situation I don't see why your experience wouldn't kick in and you pull a trick out of the hat to deal with the situation. Will it take you an extra 15 mins? Maybe, but I'd consider that well within the variability of the job. It's like your dumbass hits the reset button with every new job and you've forgotten what helped you in the past. In your line of work, if you can't recognize a problem and come up with a solution quickly maybe it's time to give up and go back to changing oil.

Unless you have wrenched in the rust belt, you can’t imagine the problems we are talking about. Exhaust manifold bolts that rust off almost flush with the aluminum head, oil pans rusted through and leaking, brake backing plates rusted apart, O2 sensors fused to pipes, fuel lines rusted to the point that if you touch them to change a fuel filter they will leak, and a thousand other things.


TJs that rust so bad the belly pan falls with the trans attached.

 

[Poopyface]

Have any of you rust belt mechanics tried "knocker loose?" My guys swear by it.

Or Kroil. Hasn't failed me yet.

 

[Poopyface]

Unless you have wrenched in the rust belt, you can’t imagine the problems we are talking about. Exhaust manifold bolts that rust off almost flush with the aluminum head, oil pans rusted through and leaking, brake backing plates rusted apart, O2 sensors fused to pipes, fuel lines rusted to the point that if you touch them to change a fuel filter they will leak, and a thousand other things.


TJs that rust so bad the belly pan falls with the trans attached.

Upper rear shock bolts on jeeps. Those are fun.

I replaced the fuel tank on the gmt400 cuz it rusted through and rubbed the fuel and brake lines a little while getting it out. Instant leak. I rubbed off a little rust up the line with fingers and it started leaking there. I dunno how it held fluid when braking.

 

[jimmy123456789]

Unless you have wrenched in the rust belt, you can’t imagine the problems we are talking about. Exhaust manifold bolts that rust off almost flush with the aluminum head, oil pans rusted through and leaking, brake backing plates rusted apart, O2 sensors fused to pipes, fuel lines rusted to the point that if you touch them to change a fuel filter they will leak, and a thousand other things.


TJs that rust so bad the belly pan falls with the trans attached.

To be fair, if something breaks because it is rusty, that adds steps to the job and adds cost in torch/welder consumables, drill bits, etc.


if you beat book time you aren’t (hopefully) skipping necessary steps. You just have done the job and streamlined your processes.

Somebody finally understands what I'm talking about. These are things that people in non-rusty climates don't deal with, and something rust belt mechanics are just expected to "eat" because of dipshit customers who don't understand mechanic work and think mechanics are just out to rip them off. And dipshit service writers and shop owners who fail to bill for these "incidentals".

That's why I'd say go over the vehicle with the customer, explain the situation, and make them aware of any potential problems that might arise during the course of the work (e.g. dropping a gas tank with rusty fuel lines, lines might break, etc.) and that they will be billed extra to deal with these issues.

It's fair, and it's what the auto industry needs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8uiSZgwZo&t=2s

Another automotive tech (Flat Rate Master) who agrees rust needs to be billed for.

 

[Provience]

Somebody finally understands what I'm talking about. These are things that people in non-rusty climates don't deal with, and something rust belt mechanics are just expected to "eat" because of dipshit customers who don't understand mechanic work and think mechanics are just out to rip them off. And dipshit service writers and shop owners who fail to bill for these "incidentals".

That's why I'd say go over the vehicle with the customer, explain the situation, and make them aware of any potential problems that might arise during the course of the work (e.g. dropping a gas tank with rusty fuel lines, lines might break, etc.) and that they will be billed extra to deal with these issues.

It's fair, and it's what the auto industry needs.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gj8uiSZgwZo&t=2s

Another tech who agrees rust needs to be billed for.

somebody understands finally

multiple people have stated that it isn't uncommon to charge extra, such as .5 hours, for broke/rusty/unexpected issues. Call the customer and communicate, drive on.

 

[jimmy123456789]

somebody understands finally

multiple people have stated that it isn't uncommon to charge extra, such as .5 hours, for broke/rusty/unexpected issues. Call the customer and communicate, drive on.

Yes true, but lots of people were indignant at the very suggestion that you bill more for rust and that I'm a con artist and a pussy for even mentioning it. Glad to see more users agreeing with me.

 

[Ted_Kaczynski]

Yes true, but lots of people were indignant at the very suggestion that you bill more for rust and that I'm a con artist and a pussy for even mentioning it. Glad to see more users agreeing with me.

But will you refund customers of non rusty cars that you beat book time on?