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Automatic transmission options?

Tryloff

Tryloff

Well-known member
Joined
May 20, 2020
Member Number
788
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203
Forgive my ignorance. I haven't messed with ford's very much.

I stumbled into a 84 4x4 ranger 5 speed with a blown up v6 in it. It came with a running 68 302 and 2wd c4. I want to make it automatic but am unsure on my options for an economical transmission/ tcase. My first thought was use the 302 and c4 as is and put a divorced 205 behind it. But after looking at that, the t case would be wat too far back. Am I best to shop around for a small block c6 and married 205? Pony up the 600ish bucks for the 4x4 c4 conversion parts? Are there obviously better options that I am overlooking?
 
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Just for crawling or anything else as well?

302 and 4x4 c4 would be a nice setup.

AOD if you want overdrive and vacuum control.

6r80 is a viable swap if you don't mind the budget for the widest ratios
 
Provience said:
Just for crawling or anything else as well?

302 and 4x4 c4 would be a nice setup.

AOD if you want overdrive and vacuum control.

6r80 is a viable swap if you don't mind the budget for the widest ratios
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For the short term I will probably just get it running and driving so my wife doesn't make me sell it.

In the long term, I have the itch to truggy it. So I was aiming for something that won't need any major changes to handle 38+ tires and a mild 302.

For the c4 I have, I would need to rebuild it and buy ~500 bucks worth of output shaft and tail housing.
 
Will the c4 hold up to smashes hand in door before driving style of driving? I'm sure the aftermarket is almost endless for them.. I haven't looked..
 
Tryloff said:
Will the c4 hold up to smashes hand in door before driving style of driving? I'm sure the aftermarket is almost endless for them.. I haven't looked..
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I had a built c4 by three reputable people c5 case 6 pinion planetary good clutches, steels reverse pattern manual valve body. Could not get it to hold up to 40’s and stock v8. Had a 2-3 shift flare whole time I owned it. Gave up and sold the truck.

Personally small block c6/205 manual valve body. Explorer v8 swap wiring is easy. I’ve posted up the tech several times on here and the old place.
 
Rangerrod said:
I had a built c4 by three reputable people c5 case 6 pinion planetary good clutches, steels reverse pattern manual valve body. Could not get it to hold up to 40’s and stock v8. Had a 2-3 shift flare whole time I owned it. Gave up and sold the truck.

Personally small block c6/205 manual valve body. Explorer v8 swap wiring is easy. I’ve posted up the tech several times on here and the old place.
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That's my only real fear with projects. I never mind spending the money to do it right, but I can't stand spending it a second time.
 
'84 Bronco II can you remind the class what the hot ticket for a 4wd C4 is?

Tryloff said:
Will the c4 hold up to smashes hand in door before driving style of driving? I'm sure the aftermarket is almost endless for them.. I haven't looked..
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A well built C4 will hold up to anything a 302 can do.

Rangerrod said:
Had a 2-3 shift flare whole time I owned it. Gave up and sold the truck.
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That's a tuning problem, not a "couldn't hold up" problem. You needed to do something to make the fluid hit harder and faster.

If it didn't have the requisite holding power you'd have pushed through 3rd just but matting it after the gear engaged.
 
Do all 70-90s ford t cases mate up to all 4wd transmissions or is there something I should be on the lookout for?

Should the stock tcase from the 84 ranger bolt up to a 4wd c4/6? If that works, I can use that while it's a gointotowner but once I do the Chopin and Linkin, I can just ditch that for an Atlas.

Locally, I found a sbf c6 "was working fine when pulled" for ~800 and a mated 205 for 300. The 205 should work as long as I go the married tcase route. And I think the c6 would be much cheaper than either finding a 4wd c4 or rebuilding the 2wd one and swapping tails. I do agree that the c6 is bigger than I will need, but I don't even really need the truck, so I guess needs are out the window.

I guess I am officially bench building. I'll have to fix that soon.
 
arse_sidewards said:
No. RBV stuff is different.
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Well shoot. That would have been too easy. I'm leaning g heavy towards c6/205. Mostly because I will find it funny having such a heavy drive train in an otherwise stock ford ranger.
 
Tryloff said:
Well shoot. That would have been too easy. I'm leaning g heavy towards c6/205. Mostly because I will find it funny having such a heavy drive train in an otherwise stock ford ranger.
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If you do a good job stuffing it in it will probably work well.
 
Couldn't you do a RBV C5 then swap the SBF C4 bellhousing on it? That way you can run the RBV case.

Assuming you can actually find a RBV C5 these days
 
Tryloff said:
Locally, I found a sbf c6 "was working fine when pulled" for ~800
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That is a lot for a used to C6 and I am in California!
C4 or C6 is a good choice, they are simple. A c4 can be as built as much as your wallet can stomach.
I like them both, to me it's how much you want to spend. The C6 is larger so you'll have to make sure there is enough tunnel clearance, I don't know RBV's enough to say there is.
You will never find a 4x4 C4 cheap enough, those are an early bronco thing and come with a price tag.
 
I sold a core 4x4 c6 for $450, full of shaving needing rebuild. Just the spud and adapter are worth that.

6R80 is the way to go. Same size as C6.
 
arse_sidewards said:
@'84 Bronco II can you remind the class what the hot ticket for a 4wd C4 is?
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Only two options for factory 4x4 C4s. The early Bronco has the 28 spline out put that isn't compatible with anything other than the Dana 20 it came with without an adapter, and anything Early Bronco is expensive. They are fairly rare, but some F150s and FSBs came with 31 spline output C4s behind 302s. Both are going to be pan-fill 164 tooth bell versions, which are supposedly stronger cases, but they are also a little bigger and heaver than the case-fill 157 tooth bell transmissions that came in most cars. The case-fill 157 tooth bell will probably fit better in an RBV if you are trying to get away without a body lift. My 5.0L Bronco II had a 3" body lift, so I can't say for sure.

That said, you can adapt a C4 with COTS parts to pretty much any transfercase you can think of if you're not a tight ass.

Tryloff said:
Do all 70-90s ford t cases mate up to all 4wd transmissions or is there something I should be on the lookout for?
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Full size Fords used the 6 bolt 31 spline pattern for a long time and you have a lot of options: NP203, NP205, NP208, BW1345, BW1356, BW4406, BW4407, NV271/273.

6 speed manual Superduties use a 34 spline NV271/273, and I think automatics went to the 34 spline input with the 6R140. I believe the newest Superduties have a Magna transfercase that is still a 34 spline input.

Dana 20s have a coarse 6 spline input and Ford used a 28 spline to 6 spline coupler with them behind both the C4s and 3 speed manuals. I am not sure how the bolt pattern compares, but it is pretty much irrelevant since you are going to have to use an adapter regardless to use behind anything other than an EB transmission (or some 2wd NP435s with the EB tail housing. I don't know anything about the old oddball Dana 21 and 24 stuff, but those transfercases are irrelevant anyway.

RBVs used a 5 bolt 25 spline pattern. your options are BW1350 or BW 1354.

mjlogan88 said:
Couldn't you do a RBV C5 then swap the SBF C4 bellhousing on it? That way you can run the RBV case.

Assuming you can actually find a RBV C5 these days
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Yes. C5 is basically the same thing as a C4 and most of the important bits are a direct swap between the two. The C5 basically just has improved oil passages and a lock up converter from the factory. You can find them in '83-'84 Rangers and Bronco IIs.
 
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'84 Bronco II said:
Only two options for factory 4x4 C4s. The early Bronco has the 28 spline out put that isn't compatible with anything other than the Dana 20 it came with without an adapter, and anything Early Bronco is expensive. They are fairly rare, but some F150s and FSBs came with 31 spline output C4s behind 302s. Both are going to be pan-fill 164 tooth bell versions, which are supposedly stronger cases, but they are also a little bigger and heaver than the case-fill 157 tooth bell transmissions that came in most cars. The case-fill 157 tooth bell will probably fit better in an RBV if you are trying to get away without a body lift. My 5.0L Bronco II had a 3" body lift, so I can't say for sure.

That said, to can adapt a C4 with COTS parts to pretty much any transfercase you can think of if you're not a tight ass.



Full size Fords used the 6 bolt 31 spline pattern for a long time and you have a lot of options: NP203, NP205, NP208, BW1345, BW1356, BW4406, BW4407, NV271/273.

6 speed manual Superduties use a 34 spline NV271/273, and I think automatics went to the 34 spline input with the 6R140. I believe the newest Superduties have a Magna transfercase that is still a 34 spline input.

Dana 20s have a coarse 6 spline input and Ford used a 28 spline to 6 spline coupler with them behind both the C4s and 3 speed manuals. I am not sure how the bolt pattern compares, but it is pretty much irrelevant since you are going to have to use an adapter regardless to use behind anything other than an EB transmission (or some 2wd NP435s with the EB tail housing. I don't know anything about the old oddball Dana 21 and 24 stuff, but those transfercases are irrelevant anyway.

RBVs used a 5 bolt 25 spline pattern. your options are BW1350 or BW 1354.



Yes. C5 is basically the same thing as a C4 and most of the important bits are a direct swap between the two. The C5 basically just has improved oil passages and a lock up converter from the factory. You can find them in '83-'84 Rangers and Bronco IIs.
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You are a wealth of knowledge. Thank you.

I did find a sbf c6 for 300 and a 205 for 200 all within 2 hours of me. I also found a 1356, so I have to choose between that and a 205. I destroyed a 1356 in my obs 7.3, so I am leaning towards the 205.
 
$400 junkyard 4r70w from 5.0 explorer with a $200 98ish f150 manual tcase and a $900 controller is a pretty hearty yet compact setup for what you're doing


Your rbv has a narrow frame that won't easily fit a 90s chain case
 
Projectjunkie said:
$400 junkyard 4r70w from 5.0 explorer with a $200 98ish f150 manual tcase and a $900 controller is a pretty hearty yet compact setup for what you're doing


Your rbv has a narrow frame that won't easily fit a 90s chain case
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So the frame width will be the issue? I don't mind ruining the floor pans, but would like the main frame rails to stay intact.
 
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Tryloff said:
So the frame width will be the issue? I don't mind running the floor pans, but with line the main frame rails to stay intact.
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Frame width is an issue if you're trying to source a t case from a 80-96 truck, they're too wide. Hell, they don't fit in a 70s full size truck without notching the frame.

The 97-03 f150 tcase is the go to for the 5.0 4r70w explorer crowd when they go from awd to 4wd

Or you can go np205, it'll fit fine, but it's heavy, they're all 45 years old and hard to find, expensive, etc.

We're not exactly tripping over 70s 4wd parts anymore:laughing:


Also, I'll throw a curve ball at you, if your plan is a low budget 302 4wd ranger

Some/ most/ all 97-98ish 4.2 v6 f150 have the Windsor V8 bellhousing bolt pattern

They were fairly plentiful in 4wd 5 speed and you can find the trans for 3-400. Then pay an extra 200 for tcase, you'll need to find a matching flywheel and clutch setup that's the right size and balance for your early v8, get the hydraulics sorted out, but you can probably gather that up for under $1k
 
I can't do a manual. Call me what you will, but my peterbilt and poor health choices have ruined my knees. I found the c6 and 205 for cheap and local. If the 205 ends up being a mistake, I've always wanted an Atlas so maybe that's my excuse in the future? I'm trying to stay away from wiring because I'm an idiot.
 
Tryloff said:
I can't do a manual. Call me what you will, but my peterbilt and poor health choices have ruined my knees. I found the c6 and 205 for cheap and local. If the 205 ends up being a mistake, I've always wanted an Atlas so maybe that's my excuse in the future? I'm trying to stay away from wiring because I'm an idiot.
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Then an auto it is, while the c6 np205 is bombproof, it'll be overkill and turn a fair amount of fuel and horsepower into heat and drag. Which may not matter if this is mostly offroad, if it's a daily driver abs weekend warrior, you might find the minimal wiring of the 4r70w and standalone controller worthwhile
arse_sidewards said:
It's a 90deg V6. You wind up with all the difficulty of a 5.0 swap with none of the cheap aftermarket convenience or power.
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You're the only one who got "use the 4.2 v6" out of that:laughing:
 
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